Who is Noel?

[Fains nose]

It seems obvious to me that Noel is Jain Farstrider, but what happened to him to make him end up in Ebour Dar scouting darkfriends, then later attaching himself to Mat? The extract below is apparently of Noel, as he sits Outside Jaichim Carridin’s palace:

 

A Crown Of Swords, page 350, ‘The Triumph of Logic’

 

Sitting on an upended barrel in the sparse coolness of a narrow shaded alley, he studied the house across the busy street. Suddenly he realized he was touching his head again. He did not have a headache, but his head felt… peculiar… sometimes. Most often when he thought of what he could not remember. 

Three stories of white plaster, the house belonged to a goldsmith who supposedly was being visited by two friends she had met on a journey north some years ago. The friends had only been glimpsed on arrival and not seen since. Finding that out had been easy, finding out they were Aes Sedai only a trifle more difficult.

A lean young man in a torn vest, whistling his way down the street with no good on his mind, paused when he glimpsed him sitting on the barrel. His coat and his location in the shadows – and the rest of him, he admitted ruefully – probably looked tempting. He reached under his coat. His hands no longer possessed the strength or flexibility for sword work, but the two long knives he had carried for well over thirty years had surprised more than one swordsman. Maybe something showed in his eyes, because the lean young man thought better of it and whistled his way on.

Beside the house, the gate that led back to the goldsmith’s stable swung open, and two burly men appeared pushing a barrow piled high with soiled straw and muck. What were they up to? Arnin and Nad were hardly the lads to be mucking out stables. He would stay here until dark, he decided, then see whether he could find Carridin’s pretty little killer again.

Once again he pulled his hand down from his head. Sooner or later, he would remember. He did not have much time left, but it was all he did have. He remembered that much”

 

We know that he was involved with events surrounding Malkier (Lord Agelmar’s story about Lan in tEotW), but that was around 50 years ago, we know that he mysteriously disappeared at some point. He seems to have been compelled or used by Ba’alzamon/Ishamael/Moridin:

The Eye Of The  World page 760 ‘Against The Shadow’ 

 

Ba’alzamon to Rand

“Aiel allowed to flee, and one to live, to speak words that would echo down the years. Jain Farstrider, a hero,” he twisted the words to a sneer, “whom I painted like a fool and sent to the Ogier thinking he was free of me. The Black Ajah, wriggling like worms on their bellies across the world to search you out.”

 

Here Loial talks about a man that appears to be Noel:

 

tEotW page 640 ‘Remembrance of Dreams’

“There was a man came to Stedding Shangtai a little time back. This was not unusual in itself, at the time, since a great many refugees had come to the Spine of the World fleeing what you humans call the Aiel War.” Rand grinned. A little time back; twenty years, near enough. “He was at the point of death, though there was no wound or mark on him. The Elders thought it might be something the Aes Sedai had done”-Loial gave Moiraine an apologetic look-“since as soon as he was within the stedding he quickly got well. A few months. One night he left without a word to anyone, simply sneaked away when the moon was down.” He looked at Moiraine’s face and cleared his throat again. “Yes. Brief. Before he left, he told a curious tale which he said he meant to carry to Tar Valon. He said the Dark One intended to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, kill time itself. The Elders said he was as sound in his mind as in his body, but that was what he said.”

 

So 20 years ago Ishamael sent Jain Farstrider to Stedding Shangtai, having done something to him with the Power , no one knew who he was, and he hast been on anyones radar until he turned up in Ebour Dar. The question is, what happened to him, what did Ishamael do to him, that the effects still seem to be lingering 20 years on, and is Noel a pawn for the Shadow, or was he compelled or had something done to him similar to what Padan Fain had done in Shayol Ghoul, and he is now fighting against that to help the Light?

 

[lordofsoup]

I agree Noal Charin is Jain Farstrider, and I agree that he probably was the old man, but I just dont trust Ishmael

[sukitiki]

wow amazing! I never realized that that man could be Jain. It must be Jain, it makes a lot of sense now. I think we'll find out more about him in the final book, sucks he died though :(

I really like it when authors reference previous legends and heroes and can't believe Jain "bloody" Farstrider died

[Pug]

Noel does say that he's Jain right before he dies, he tells Matt.

[TristanWebb]

This thread is 2 years old Pug :P

 

I never thought it was Jain because I thought he was around like 100 years ago. I missed the part where he was part of the fall of Malkier, but I never thought to find him alive in the world.

[Vardar]

This thread is 2 years old Pug :P

 

I never thought it was Jain because I thought he was around like 100 years ago. I missed the part where he was part of the fall of Malkier, but I never thought to find him alive in the world.

 

Yea that part always got me. I mean, in todays day and age, you can be a hero pretty quick. But how the hell did this man have BOOKS printed about him, for years, already? How old is this man?

[TristanWebb]

Not just books, but books that everyone in the world knows of. Even in the backwards Two Rivers there is a copy (though Tam could of got it while in Illian).

[Vardar]

Not just books, but books that everyone in the world knows of. Even in the backwards Two Rivers there is a copy (though Tam could of got it while in Illian).

 

Exactly what I was getting at. Even the waste had them. I mean, I tried to work it out in my head, but it doesn't make much sense. I mean how old is Lan? Cause Jain was already famous then! When Lan was BORN!!!! Lan is older than Moriane who has to be pushing 50 now (20 years ago she gained the shawl, even going to the tower at 15ish, she had to be novice for 3-4 years and accepted for the same, and that's pushing it).

 

So that means Lan has to be pushing 60ish, or at the very least 50 like Mor. So, Noel was already having adventures and known when Lan was born, so let's be nice and say he started when he was 15, and was just 25 (to get well known, you gotta have 10 years under your belt, but yes I made that up) being nice, that would put this guy at 75. He's 75 still kicking ass?!?!??! That man is MEAN!

[Galad86]

im still confused on this i thought jain was a legendary hero from somewhere back like birgitte silverbow, i forget the part where the forsaken come into it. why bring him back now and make him a hero? anyone who could shed light on this for me would be much appreciated. thanks

[Vardar]

im still confused on this i thought jain was a legendary hero from somewhere back like birgitte silverbow, i forget the part where the forsaken come into it. why bring him back now and make him a hero? anyone who could shed light on this for me would be much appreciated. thanks

 

Well we kinda all did at first. It's just a logical conclusion based on the fact that the entire world knows about this guy, and there are books out about him. In a day and age where a map in a common room is out and outdated and missing countries, how the hell did they get a book about a legendary hero while he was still alive.

 

Everything points to him being long dead and gone, Gleeman tales, Books, the way people spoke about him. So it's not you, it's just how it seems.

[Luckers]

Not just books, but books that everyone in the world knows of. Even in the backwards Two Rivers there is a copy (though Tam could of got it while in Illian).

 

Exactly what I was getting at. Even the waste had them. I mean, I tried to work it out in my head, but it doesn't make much sense. I mean how old is Lan? Cause Jain was already famous then! When Lan was BORN!!!! Lan is older than Moriane who has to be pushing 50 now (20 years ago she gained the shawl, even going to the tower at 15ish, she had to be novice for 3-4 years and accepted for the same, and that's pushing it).

 

So that means Lan has to be pushing 60ish, or at the very least 50 like Mor. So, Noel was already having adventures and known when Lan was born, so let's be nice and say he started when he was 15, and was just 25 (to get well known, you gotta have 10 years under your belt, but yes I made that up) being nice, that would put this guy at 75. He's 75 still kicking ass?!?!??! That man is MEAN!

 

Moiraine went to the Tower at 16 and was raised to the shawl at 22. She is currently 44 or 45. Lan is three years older, and is currently 47 or 48. Noal's first listed great act of heroism was two years after Lan's birth, and one year prior to Moiraine's, when he captured Cowin Fairheart, the Darkfriend, but he was already being called Fartstrider by that point so obviously he had already done some amazing things that have never been cited in the story.

 

Jain published the Travels of Jain Farstrider in 968 when Moiraine was 12 and Lan was 15. This is 13 years after the Fall of Malkier, and around 31/32 years prior to the beginning of the Eye of the World. The world of the Wheel, remember, has printing presses. 31 years is not a short period of time to see such wide distribution.

 

Jain then went to Shayol Goul around 13 years after he published the book, and disapeared. We don't know the exact date of his birth, but he was between 60 and 70 years of age when he died.

[Vardar]

Not just books, but books that everyone in the world knows of. Even in the backwards Two Rivers there is a copy (though Tam could of got it while in Illian).

 

Exactly what I was getting at. Even the waste had them. I mean, I tried to work it out in my head, but it doesn't make much sense. I mean how old is Lan? Cause Jain was already famous then! When Lan was BORN!!!! Lan is older than Moriane who has to be pushing 50 now (20 years ago she gained the shawl, even going to the tower at 15ish, she had to be novice for 3-4 years and accepted for the same, and that's pushing it).

 

So that means Lan has to be pushing 60ish, or at the very least 50 like Mor. So, Noel was already having adventures and known when Lan was born, so let's be nice and say he started when he was 15, and was just 25 (to get well known, you gotta have 10 years under your belt, but yes I made that up) being nice, that would put this guy at 75. He's 75 still kicking ass?!?!??! That man is MEAN!

 

Moiraine went to the Tower at 16 and was raised to the shawl at 22. She is currently 44 or 45. Lan is three years older, and is currently 47 or 48. Noal's first listed great act of heroism was two years after Lan's birth, and one year prior to Moiraine's, when he captured Cowin Fairheart, the Darkfriend, but he was already being called Fartstrider by that point so obviously he had already done some amazing things that have never been cited in the story.

 

Jain published the Travels of Jain Farstrider in 968 when Moiraine was 12 and Lan was 15. This is 13 years after the Fall of Malkier, and around 31/32 years prior to the beginning of the Eye of the World. The world of the Wheel, remember, has printing presses. 31 years is not a short period of time to see such wide distribution.

 

Jain then went to Shayol Goul around 13 years after he published the book, and disapeared. We don't know the exact date of his birth, but he was between 60 and 70 years of age when he died.

 

And Luckers with the numbers. Mor got the Shawl after 4 years? So why is so much made about the supergirls?

 

DIdn't know that was his first great act, I figured since he had a name for himself it was just another. Even with the printing press, wide spread distrobution with backwater places would be the main problem. I didn"t realize he wrote it himself though. Where did you get that date from anyway?

 

Lastly, he's still an old ass man to be laying the smack down like he does.

[Luckers]

And Luckers with the numbers. Mor got the Shawl after 4 years? So why is so much made about the supergirls?

 

Moiraine got the shawl in six years. She spent three as a novice and three as one of the Accepted--as did Siuan and Elaida. All three are cited as being remarkable for how swiftly they moved through their training.

 

DIdn't know that was his first great act, I figured since he had a name for himself it was just another. Even with the printing press, wide spread distrobution with backwater places would be the main problem. I didn"t realize he wrote it himself though. Where did you get that date from anyway?

 

First CITED act--as in, cited to us. It's evident he did some other things prior to that, but even so he was quite young when he took down Fairheart (which is just the best name for a Darkfriend). As for distribution--its actually unsurprising that it in particular was well known in the Two Rivers--they wouldn't get many books, just those the peddlers brought, so the bestsellers and thats it.

 

The date was in the Dragon Reborn glossary.

 

Lastly, he's still an old ass man to be laying the smack down like he does.

 

True, though we do know his hands pain him, and that he can no longer use a sword, like he once did. So age was catching up with him.

[Vardar]

Moiraine got the shawl in six years. She spent three as a novice and three as one of the Accepted--as did Siuan and Elaida. All three are cited as being remarkable for how swiftly they moved through their training.

 

Vardar basic math fail. Although she'd be younger than 44, if Rand was born before she got the shawl, perhaps just younger. Not enough to make a difference Where did you get Lan's age.

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

First CITED act--as in, cited to us. It's evident he did some other things prior to that, but even so he was quite young when he took down Fairheart (which is just the best name for a Darkfriend). As for distribution--its actually unsurprising that it in particular was well known in the Two Rivers--they wouldn't get many books, just those the peddlers brought, so the bestsellers and thats it.

 

The date was in the Dragon Reborn glossary.

 

Ahhh. Yes great name, and lol @ Best sellers. So now the question is, who decided Jain was legendary? Did he prink that in his own book. That would be hilarious.

 

True, though we do know his hands pain him, and that he can no longer use a sword, like he once did. So age was catching up with him.

 

Yea, still remarkable. I thought the hands thing was because of broken fingers not healing right, although knife work takes more dexterity, so not sure about how that works. (Good knife work)

[Suttree]

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

Not live longer but it does delay the effects of aging.

[Orderofolde]

Not just books, but books that everyone in the world knows of. Even in the backwards Two Rivers there is a copy (though Tam could of got it while in Illian).

 

Exactly what I was getting at. Even the waste had them. I mean, I tried to work it out in my head, but it doesn't make much sense. I mean how old is Lan? Cause Jain was already famous then! When Lan was BORN!!!! Lan is older than Moriane who has to be pushing 50 now (20 years ago she gained the shawl, even going to the tower at 15ish, she had to be novice for 3-4 years and accepted for the same, and that's pushing it).

 

So that means Lan has to be pushing 60ish, or at the very least 50 like Mor. So, Noel was already having adventures and known when Lan was born, so let's be nice and say he started when he was 15, and was just 25 (to get well known, you gotta have 10 years under your belt, but yes I made that up) being nice, that would put this guy at 75. He's 75 still kicking ass?!?!??! That man is MEAN!

 

Moiraine went to the Tower at 16 and was raised to the shawl at 22. She is currently 44 or 45. Lan is three years older, and is currently 47 or 48. Noal's first listed great act of heroism was two years after Lan's birth, and one year prior to Moiraine's, when he captured Cowin Fairheart, the Darkfriend, but he was already being called Fartstrider by that point so obviously he had already done some amazing things that have never been cited in the story.

 

Jain published the Travels of Jain Farstrider in 968 when Moiraine was 12 and Lan was 15. This is 13 years after the Fall of Malkier, and around 31/32 years prior to the beginning of the Eye of the World. The world of the Wheel, remember, has printing presses. 31 years is not a short period of time to see such wide distribution.

 

Jain then went to Shayol Goul around 13 years after he published the book, and disapeared. We don't know the exact date of his birth, but he was between 60 and 70 years of age when he died.

Nicely done!

 

i would like to add my suspicions that Jain was indeed the man that went to the Stedding, perhaps his willpower (like Morgase) allowed him to free himself from Ishy and the Stedding negated any effects of compulsion while there. When he left, he might have been captured by Aiel (as Aiel and Borderland men didn't get along to well and Aiel traded often at the stedding) and been sold as a slave into Shara, where he would have been taken away from the border towns and seen the animals he did and all the other things no one else has been able to see. I suspect that he came back into play when Graendal captured the two rulers of Shara. I seem to recall a Forsaken visiting her lair was shown the two rulers as part of her pretties, and a despondent Jain was noticed as he did not fit in. Graendal was masterful at compulsion which Jain/Noal seems to be under until his death, keeping tabs on Mat and doing what small things he could do in order to fight back such as having Olver sleep in his tent the night the Golum came to kill Mat, or perhaps he managed to escape her influence as well. It would be nice to find out that he managed to break free from the hold of the Shadow.

[Luckers]

Vardar basic math fail. Although she'd be younger than 44, if Rand was born before she got the shawl, perhaps just younger. Not enough to make a difference Where did you get Lan's age.

 

Lord of Choas glossary.

 

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

No, but they do avoid many of the infirmities of older age, and remain physically robust.

[Vardar]

Vardar basic math fail. Although she'd be younger than 44, if Rand was born before she got the shawl, perhaps just younger. Not enough to make a difference Where did you get Lan's age.

 

Lord of Choas glossary.

 

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

No, but they do avoid many of the infirmities of older age, and remain physically robust.

S

 

So...

 

No Lan/Ny babies?

[rand4747]

they do get old but dont seem to get the illnesses that come with age. the bond seems to help protect them from illness, but they will age and die. Just like how aes sedai are protected from illness (mostly)

[Lisa Campbell]

Vardar basic math fail. Although she'd be younger than 44, if Rand was born before she got the shawl, perhaps just younger. Not enough to make a difference Where did you get Lan's age.

 

Lord of Choas glossary.

 

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

No, but they do avoid many of the infirmities of older age, and remain physically robust.

S

 

So...

 

No Lan/Ny babies?

 

Why do you think Lan couldn't father children (if that's what you mean)?

[Vardar]

Vardar basic math fail. Although she'd be younger than 44, if Rand was born before she got the shawl, perhaps just younger. Not enough to make a difference Where did you get Lan's age.

 

Lord of Choas glossary.

 

Does the Bond make them age slower?

 

No, but they do avoid many of the infirmities of older age, and remain physically robust.

S

 

So...

 

No Lan/Ny babies?

 

Why do you think Lan couldn't father children (if that's what you mean)?

 

Cause of his age.

 

Although I do understand some men can still father children into that age, it's just not likely. (When I was a manager of a Day Care center, we had a child who we always assumed lived with her grandparents, turns out they were her parents. Wife had a false menopause and they didn't use protection, they were near 60, he wanted to name her Oops)

[Lisa Campbell]

I thought that's what you meant.

 

Lan is only 48. While very rare for women to have children older than this it does happen, last one I remember in the news was 72 or something close, I think via IVF.

 

Men can father children at any age. Granted they are less virile than in their prime and it probably doesn't happen that much because except for the 'Bunnies', what woman of childbearing age is going to sleep with a wrinkly, saggy and probably smelly old man? I'm not trying to offend anyone out there as this applies to me, but being in my mid 30s I can't even contemplate the idea of anyone over 50, and even over 45 they'd have to be pretty special.

 

Edit: typo

[Vardar]

I thought that's what you meant.

 

Lan is only 48. While very rare for women to have children older than this it does happen, last one I remember in the news was 72 or something close, I think via IVF.

 

Men can father children at any age. Granted they are less virile than in their prime and it probably doesn't happen that much because except for the 'Bunnies', what woman of childbearing age is going to sleep with a wrinkly, saggy and probably smelly old man? I'm not trying to offend anyone out there as this applies to me, but being in my mid 30s I can't even contemplate the idea of anyone over 50, and even over 45 they'd have to be pretty special.

 

Edit: typo

 

Ok, that made me laugh.

 

Men produce less sperm as they age as well, so it's not even about performing the act.

 

But still, sucks for warders, I thought they lived as long as AS.

[Lisa Campbell]

Men produce less sperm as they age as well, so it's not even about performing the act.

 

That's what I meant when I said less virile, but they do still produce thousands (as compared to the millions in their prime) of the little tadpoles and it only takes one to hit the target.

[Maleshub]

Nynaeve isn't complaining at all. Lan seems to be extremely fit and effective.