Mr Fain

[Yorkie]

Having got to the point where a new reread is inevitable (I tend to do it every April :D )I have a few questions and musings on Mr Fain and would like some input from you people if you would be so kind.

 

We all know that Mr Fain is the Dark One's hound so to speak. Sent out to hunt the boys and then later Rand himself when it becomes obvious that Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  We see that he has abilities that give him "awareness" of where Rand is, as mentioned when he is questioned by Moraine and co. We know he is also tainted by Shadar Logoth, but did this taint overlap the Dark ones influence or has it replaced it? Do they co-exist, are they one and the same (like putting oil in water). Is he still the Dark One's hound? or has he broken free somehow to pursue his own goals? 

[Majsju]

He is most certainly not the DOs hound anymore. The DO might be the only one Fain hates more than Rand, and given a chance he would try to kill the DO. He apparently still senses some of his programming though, which would be part of the reason he is still going after Rand- Killing Rand is the only way to get free from that. But it is also a personal grudge, as he blames Rand for what was done to him.

 

That Slayer has been hunting Fain since TSR tells us a bit of how important the Shadow think it is to take Fain out, now that he has turned against them.

[Impressive Bosom]

Think of Fain as a Machiavellian Gollum with a very bad attitude and a very big knife.

[Yorkie]

That Slayer has been hunting Fain since TSR tells us a bit of how important the Shadow think it is to take Fain out, now that he has turned against them.

 

Cant believe I forgot this, still would like thoughts on the taints though :)

[Kadere]

From what we can tell somewhere around TDR or TSR, and certainly by LoC Fain has "broken free" of the DO. He's still endowed with the powers of the Hound as we see in LoC he can detect where Rand is, he also knows where he is in WH as well. But he's not being controlled by the DO any more, he's become a free agent, so to speak. And working separately along side that we have Mordeth who's possessed his body and can use his own powers. The powers are not one and the same because not only do they serve very different functions (tracking as apposed to illusions, etc.), but we know that the evil of Shadar Logoth doesn't work with the evil of the DO. They oppose one another, but Fain seems to get the best of both.

[OptimusPrime]

Pretty sure RJ said that Mordeth tried to take Fains soul or whatever but couldnt, and they merged. Fain sometimes thought he was himself, and sometimes thought he was Mordeth, but Fain is basically both men made into one man. Not in a Slayer way, though.

 

The two forces being together... I think Fain has both in him still. I dont think the forces co-exist in him, I think they became one new evil thing. Abit like Rands wounds made into one. Now, they fight each other, but if both evils were merged and in one wound, surely there would be nothing holding it back.

 

I think the two evils merging in Fain is what made Fain "sidestep the Pattern so to speak" as RJ said.

[mb]

Pretty sure RJ said that Mordeth tried to take Fains soul or whatever but couldnt, and they merged.

Moiraine told that (near end of Great Hunt); I do not recall Robert Jordan telling that.  Could you provide a link?

 

[OptimusPrime]

Meh, I cant find it, maybe I was getting mixed up.

[Durinax]

when did fain and mordeth meet?

 

and the evils conflict each other , evident after fain slashes rand across the half healed scar, and explained in subsequent healing

[makaveli422]

when did fain and mordeth meet?

They met during TEOTW after Rand&Co leave Shadar Logoth.

[Yorkie]

Another Quicky regarding Mr Fain.

 

In TGH Mr Fain is set loose from his captivity, who did this, do we know... It must be one of the forsaken as the effect on the other prisoners was very ... dramatic for it to be a lowly Fade.

[Durinax]

Another Quicky regarding Mr Fain.

 

In TGH Mr Fain is set loose from his captivity, who did this, do we know... It must be one of the forsaken as the effect on the other prisoners was very ... dramatic for it to be a lowly Fade.

im pretty sure it was a fade, one of the forsaken would have met the trollocs and fades outside the citadel and took the horn from them and travelled away

[OptimusPrime]

Another Quicky regarding Mr Fain.

 

In TGH Mr Fain is set loose from his captivity, who did this, do we know... It must be one of the forsaken as the effect on the other prisoners was very ... dramatic for it to be a lowly Fade.

 

It was Ingtar.

 

Why can I never find an RJ quote when I need it?!?! I read an interview the other day and he confirmed it, its bookmarked on my work PC

[Yorkie]

Another Quicky regarding Mr Fain.

 

In TGH Mr Fain is set loose from his captivity, who did this, do we know... It must be one of the forsaken as the effect on the other prisoners was very ... dramatic for it to be a lowly Fade.

im pretty sure it was a fade, one of the forsaken would have met the trollocs and fades outside the citadel and took the horn from them and travelled away

 

I'm not so sure, for these reasons. (I don't have the page numbers for the paper back version as its on a reader)

Fain stood. "You! Not who I expected." 

then he goes on to day

"Surprises for everyone, eh? Well, come on. The night's getting old, and I want some sleep sometime."

 

If it was a Fade, he would not be surprised by what has re4leased him. And I don't see how a Fade could instil a lasting impression of the other inmates. Perhaps it was one of the BA (not mentioning who to avoid spoilers) but a forsaken would have made more sense. But then would a forsaken or even a BA allow a lowly darkfriend to grab the dagger... ?!

 

[Yorkie]

Another Quicky regarding Mr Fain.

 

In TGH Mr Fain is set loose from his captivity, who did this, do we know... It must be one of the forsaken as the effect on the other prisoners was very ... dramatic for it to be a lowly Fade.

 

It was Ingtar.

 

Why can I never find an RJ quote when I need it?!?! I read an interview the other day and he confirmed it, its bookmarked on my work PC

 

 

*face slap palm ...

 

Of course....

 

my mind is not working today...

 

Cheers

 

I'll put down the behaviour of the other inmates to the time spent with Mr Fain ... And it all makes sense :)

[Mr Ares]

RJ's blog 10 December 2005 "THIS AND THAT"

 

Now as to the fellow who went mad in the cell next to Padan Fain and the other who committed suicide, neither is evidence for Lanfear’s presence.  Which is just as well.  Repeat after me, slowly.  Lanfear — did — not — free — Padan — Fain — in — Shienar.  Nor anywhere else, for that matter.  There were two prisoners in the cells with Fain, both of them Bordermen who had some knowledge of Shadowspawn.  And in the heart of the fortress here comes a troop of Trollocs and the  Light alone knows what else.  Put yourself in their place.  Put yourself in a cage.  You can’t get out.  You are in the dark.  And here comes your worst nightmares walking in.  Only it’s worse than nightmares, because you know that these nightmares are real.  You know what they do to human beings.  You know they sometimes keep people alive a long time so they can have fresh meat.  People don’t need arms or legs to survive, so they can feed off you for days, maybe weeks.  And you can’t get out.  You can’t get away.  You just have to shiver in your cage and watch them open up another of the cages.  While you wonder whether they’re going to open your cage, too.  How do you escape?  How can you get away?  Maybe suicide is an option?  At least it’s quick.  Quicker, anyway.  But make up your mind fast, sport.  While you’re dithering, your mind might decide to make its own escape.  That won’t stop you from being butchered slowly, but at least you won’t know it’s happening.  Maybe you can see why Lanfear wasn’t necessary here?

 

Wotmania Interview 2004

 

Q:  Did Ingtar free Padan Fain in The Great Hunt? Or was it someone else?

RJ:  It was Ingtar. Didn’t expect a straight answer, did you?

 

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_66gfzm5tfx#Robert_Jordan_Quotes

 

Why can I never find an RJ quote when I need it?!?!

Because you're not as amazing as me.