Logain's commitment to Black Tower

[Sern Al Wardragon]

Concerning Logain's "future glory", could this mean that he will be the one to manage and head the Black Tower, much like the Amyrlin Seat runs the White Tower? Under his guidance I could imagine that he'd bring greatness to the tower and also bringing a balance between the White and Black Towers.

He is appears committed to the Ash'man and the Black Tower developments, and certainly does not like Taim's activities. I could even imagine him battling Taim at some point. I do not see Logain being dishonorable in the future and taking credit for things Rand did (if Rand dies after TG) and achieving glory through such negative means. I do not see him 'over-stepping' Rand like that unless Rand asked him to. Any thoughts? I just finished my first time through the series and there's much I don't understand. I could be far off on this.

[Trib4l]

All indications from what I have seen point to Logain and Taim (Rand doesn't really care about Taim) fighting it out with Logain leading the GOOD teams of male/female channelers against Taim and the teams of EVIL channelers with Logain killing Taim while he is impersonating Rand and then taking control of the BT.

[Rational_Solutions]

All speculation on this subject is really only speculation. The facts are:

 

1. Taim leads the "evil" faction in the BT

2. Logain leads the "good" faction in the BT

3. Rand and Logain don't like Taim

4. Taim has an agenda different from Rand

 

Now, with those facts it is easy to assume that the glory that Logian will gain will be from his interaction with Rand. Will it be from him re-taking the BT and making it into the image that Rand had in mind for it? Probably not, because Rand wanted Taim to make weapons. That was it Taim is doing what Rand told him to. The fact that Rand doesn't like the meathods used by Taim doesn't mean that he doesn't accept them.

 

If there is a permanate rift in the BT because of the "good" faction and the "evil" faction that could just be the beginings of the Ajahs that are in the WT. I mean the divisions in the WT had to come from something, I highly doubt that in the begining of the WT they sat down and decided that hey we are going to have these 7 factions and they are going to do these things to help in the fight of the DO and that is all you have to choose from.

 

The battle over the BT is plausible although if Taim really is going to be poseing as Rand that would mean that Rand is going to have to "dissapear" for a time for Taim to cause any problems. I say this one, because Rand is stronger than Taim, he is even stronger than Logain. So with the strenght difference Rand would be able to step up and put Taim in his place. Two Rand is taller than Taim and built differently, we know from previouse books that it is easier to weave Illusion on one's self if they don't change too much from what is there you can't make a midget an ogier with ease. So not only is it going to be hard to prove that he is Rand, but Rand is going to have to dissapear for some time.

 

 

 

Now I know my theory might have some holes but I honestly don't think that there is going to be any way to tell what Logains glory is going to be untill the next instalment.

[Mangin]

I am sure this theory isn't new, but here goes. I think Logain's glory is probably 2-fold.

 

1) leading his faction over Taim's and possibly killing Taim outright.

 

2) leading what is left of the black tower into a collusion, if you will, with what is left of the white tower. This would bring back the 'old school' definition of Aes Sedai. I just don't think Egwene and the other younglings can really salvage the old ways of the white tower, what with the Kin being involved again, letting the Atha'an Miere alone, not swearing on the Oath Rod yet (although I know she has said she will swear on it as soon as she can), the Wise Ones, etc.

I don't feel they will call them Aes Sedai anymore because of the negative connotations associated with that term. It will be something else I envision.

Perhaps Bela's Brigade? :lol:

[TheDiceAgain...]

Somewhere in these forums, I said the same thing a while back.

 

Having Aes Sedai who haven't sworn on the Oath Rod, men who can channel safely (or at least without going mad), infighting amongst the Ajah(s), the Kin, the Seanchan (damane and Sul'dam included)and all those power-wielding Aiel savages :) (the Wise Ones) I think that by the end of aMoL the wielders of the One Power will be headed back to an approximation of their organization in the Age of Legends.

 

P.S. - A semantic point, does it seem to anyone else that the word Ajah should be both singular and plural, like the word moose or Aes Sedai, for that matter? I don't know why, but I always thought it sounded better that way...

[Dionysus]

So what is it that makes you think that Logain is going to be the perfect candidate for relations with the White Tower?

 

Is it that they stilled him, and he vowed revenge upon the White Tower, which Siuan practically allowed him to achieve?

 

Is it that he was in charge (although under Taims allowance but the Aes Sedai dont know that) to forcibly bond and compel over 50 sisters?

 

If anything, I would think that the shadow has been setting up Logain to be the anti-Aes Sedai. He has been spreading lies about the Red Ajah.

 

What really makes you believe that the the Aes Sedai are going to accept Logain like you seem to believe? Hes done 100x more to merit their hatred and suspicion than Taim has.

 

"1. Taim leads the "evil" faction in the BT"

Not totally proven yet, we assume he does.

 

"2. Logain leads the "good" faction in the BT"

Not totally proven yet, have we already forgotten the earlier books?

 

"3. Rand and Logain don't like Taim"

Rand defends Taim against Logain, and has him placed at a higher level in the Black Tower. Perhaps Rand hates him, but he still seems to find him more useful than he does Logain.

 

"4. Taim has an agenda different from Rand"

And so does every single person in the book. I would love for you to tell me what agenda Taim has anyways. Perhaps you could point me to a PoV of Taims explaining it to me.

 

The whole Taim/Logain/Rand thing isn't going to be so cut and dry. While I agree that Logain is probably the good guy and will eventually battle Taim for Rand's benifit, I dont see him having much success with the Aes Sedai at least until all is said and done in the Black Tower/White Tower battles. In fact, beforehand, I predict Taim will be the White Tower ally, not Logain, as we are already beginning to see with the Red Ajah bonding Taim's group.

[KellySedai]

In this case facts really are pretty clear.

 

Taim is working for one of the Forsaken (probably Demandred) due to his use of their phrase: "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule." at the end of the Knife of Dreams.

 

His faction will undoubtedly become the new Dreadlords in the Last Battle.

 

The only thing we don't know is what role Logain is going to play in this whole thing. Personally I think that he will lead the "good" faction of Asha'man against the "bad" faction and clean most of them out. I also think that he will be the one to unite the Asha'man with the Aes Sedai to create one united Tower. (Like in the AOL) Probably be helping save the White Tower from the Seanchan. These are just my theories though, so I could definitely be wrong, but it makes sense to me. :D

[Guest cwestervelt]

Does Malleus Maleficarum ring any bells? Or maybe Salem Massachusetts?

 

The case against Taim is anything but clear. Information concerning Taim and his intentions are as murky and unreliable as can be.

 

As Dionysus said, show a PoV that gives an honest assessment of Taim's or his motivations. In 11 books, there isn't a single one. All the information is second hand at best, and is provided by characters who are either predisposed against him or have questionable motives of their own.

[vikingdriver]

Well i think the fact that Taim is working with and for the forsaken speaks loudly enough for his intentions... As for Logain I think his glory will be in leading/break the way, for the two towers to reunite. Also, I don't mean to speculate but remember he has a title and he his Lord Logain. His glory may come into a realm being handed to him for his help after TG.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Well i think the fact that Taim is working with and for the forsaken speaks loudly enough for his intentions... As for Logain I think his glory will be in leading/break the way, for the two towers to reunite. Also, I don't mean to speculate but remember he has a title and he his Lord Logain. His glory may come into a realm being handed to him for his help after TG.

 

The problem with your statement is that Taim's allegience to the Foresaken isn't a fact. The only thing concerning Taim that can be regarded as fact is that some or all of his underlings are working for the Foresaken.

 

I'm not trying to say that Taim isn't a vile, destestable and obssessed person willing to use any meens necessary to advance his own cause without regard to anyone else. There isn't any doubt that he is. Those traits don't make him a Darkfriend though. I don't see any one saying that Couladin and Sevanna were Darkfriends. They worked directly with Asmodean (Couladin's Dragons) and later Sevanna with Sammael. They even tried to exterminate the entire Cairhiennin nation. And why not Rhadam Asunawa? Based on actions, he should be too.

 

Earlier I made reference to Salem and the infamous Witch Hunting Manual for a reason. People are doing the same thing to Taim as happened during the witch hunts.

[Mangin]

Earlier I made reference to Salem and the infamous Witch Hunting Manual for a reason. People are doing the same thing to Taim as happened during the witch hunts.

 

Ahhh, I will find the quote in the books here shortly..... but I do seem to recall a passage in which we have proof. Taim floats! What does that make him?

 

As to the question on whether Logain will be an ally with the White Tower: sure, Taim can be said to be working with the Usurper more than Logain, but I am not talking about bonding/teaming up with this Age's actual version of Aes Sedai. I believe it will be the remnants of both 'towers' that will come together, possibly combining with the academies Rand is building (and the one Elayne is) or not.

[Guest Egwene]

I don't know if Taim is a Darkfriend or not... if he isn't, he certainly makes good material to become more prominent on the dark side.

 

Logain to me is a man at ease with himself. The way he handles his bonded Aes Sedai indicates to me that he is over any grudge he might have had to the WT as a whole, though I think he still wants justice from those directly involved in wrong doings against him. I would be happy to put a bet on him leading any future male Aes Sedai and directing negotiations with the WT. Probably over Taim's dead body

.

[athena]

Has anyone thought of maybe somone else leading the BT? All Min says is that Logain will have glory but couldn't that mean he kills Taim and then dies himself? Aren't most heros known as such once they are dead? Who says Logain has to live after the (maybe) dreadlord fight? :?

 

I think Taim is Demandred or works for him so I have to say he is definitely building up the dreadlord army, if its not him, then where will they come from and from who? Remember history repeats itself in this world so just as Taim is building the dreadlord army, I beleive that these "remnants" of Aes Sedai and Asha'man will be the same as what they once were.

[TheDiceAgain...]

I'll say this again...

 

Taim is not Demandred. RJ has told us that we have not yet seen whom Demandred is posing as. Before you say that Demandred is Taim and is therefore not "posing as" anyone, Taim was active long before Demandred was freed. Therefore he would have had to kill Taim and take his place, as such he would now be impersonating a dead man or "posing as" him.

 

Arggh! My brain hurts! How many times do we have to explain this?!? (Just Kidding, of course...)

[Trib4l]

Besides Taim clearly not being Dem (as stated by RJ), I doubt Dashiva would have openly worked with Demandred seeing as the Forsaken have it as bad for one another as they do for Rand.

[gak]

to but my 2 cents into this conversation..... even though i agree with most of the views on here... i really think that we may be in for a bit of a twist... i mean rj has thrown in a surprise or two during the series..... i would though like to see logain beat taim around the black tower grounds with tiam crying out to his mommy the whole time.....

 

that would be fun... though i dont think it will happen like that