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In Books 1 - 11, What Events Do You Think ''Hardened'' Rand Most? (POed Him lol)

The Fisher King

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I have noticed that in the last year or so one of the more often discussed themes of wot has been about how ''Hard'' The Dragon Reborn has become. How dangerously Hard.


It got me thinking. Also, one thing azrael said in another Thread got me thinking. Rand is like the epitome of the poor guy that just keeps getting piled on and on and on till you just have to wonder how much more the poor guy can take.


So. What Do You Rank As The MAIN EVENTS That Pi$$ed Off Rand The Most And Were MOST Responsible For Making The Dragon Reborn As ''Hard'' As He Has Become?


1 The Box...It can't really be argued that this is the biggest one, I don't think, but I think some other events are right up there with it...Such As:


2 The Against His Will bonding by Ahlanna and Her Crew! (To me, this was a HUGE step in Rand losing his trust for ALL Aes Sedai).


3 The Kidnapping of him by that lady whose crown deal that Cadsuane Sedai broke.


I want to take a minute and talk about some of the LOSSES as well as the anger-inspiring events too, that I think were really really NEGATIVE things for him.


Moiraine, of course...but...also, later in that same book (FOH) Lan riding away out of his life was also...detrimental to Rand's psyche, imo.


Liah too was...Hugely Horrible on him.


Also, I think one thing that REALLY Ticked Rand OFF that is maybe not as well remembred as some of the other things was maybe that one time when (POD, I thiiiink) some of his Aiel Maiden Pals busted in on him and beat the tar out of him.


I never really understood that myself. It was weird. Were they compulsed? Under a Bubble of Evil?...Anywaaaays...


The poor guy may have turned into one Hard and Sad Dude but...after all that...Can you blame him???





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FSM - I meant to put that one in...Thanks.


You know, its been 15 years and I still am Blown Away every time I read that part with Mangin.


I must confess that I shared The First of Mayne's incredulity at a man making an apppointment for his own execution then promising to walk to his own hanging.


Even for Aiel that was...Out There lol.




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I'm going to make a lot of enemies with this but seriously the worst thing for Rand is:


That he is destined to die while most of the other main characters get to live on and not just humbly go through their lives but live in luxury and style.  I mean we have the moron Nynaeve who is going to rule Malkier with Lan of course but how much ruling is he going to be able to do with her as his queen.  Then there is Gawyn and Galad who should have been killed when they sided with Elaida (yeah, I know Galad didn't exactly side with Elaida but he certainly wouldn't be missed if he died instead of Rand and yes I am jealous of his looks).  Also we have Egwene who was basically handed the Amyrlin Seat just for trying because Elaida is worthless. 


Plus Mat and Perrin who seem intelligent at times but ruined any chance of future happiness by marrying Tuon and Faile (by the way both of them are so bad they even had to try and confuse you by changing their names a hundred times).  Then there is Logain, I mean I like the guy and even named my son Logan because no one would let me go so far as to name him Logain but come on he doesn't even compare to Rand.  Even Elayne, I mean how long is it going to take for the Daughter heir to claim the throne, isn't it supposed to be instant, she must be doing something wrong (I know it is more complicated than that but how dumb can Andorans be, the Last Battle is coming).


Okay the list could go on for a while but I guess I am done venting for the moment.  By the way I love all of the characters in the series, even the ones I hate so don't get offended by my post.  It was mostly for laughs anyway.   

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This is an interesting one, alright, cos the poor guy really was promising a major explosion for ages there. I think the Mangin thing certainly had a huge effect on him, because it really was something that arose directly from his own lawmaking. And the scheming politician types everywhere didpish him some peculiar places.


Off topic slightly, though, it's interesting where the light relief moments came from... In KoD, I think, the negotiations with the Seafolk, and he can't handle the claustrophobia so he storms off, just when his ta'veren-ness had it nearly in the bag. And the grey AS he leaves to finish off explodes at him a week later or whatever, "and, by the by, they named you Coramoor, may you get a belly ache from it!" I laughed my bum off. And even Min thought he'd snap, but he's not so hard there that he can't take honest anger. That's something he remains reasonably at ease with most of the time.. Nynaeve gets away with a lot under that flag.


It really does illustrate how far he'd gone by the Tam scene...

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I think it is in TFoH when he decides to use Mat.  He knows Mat knows these old battles, and has Lan "trick" him into revealing his thoughts on the attack on the Shaido.  He knows that Mat was changed by the Finns, and although he doesn't talk to Mat about it, he uses him.


I think that was a turning point as well.  He uses his friend just like any other tool.

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