Demandred vs. Moridin - Grudge match?

[UltramegaOK]

I asked this in the middle of some other thread, but no one commented.  However I'd still like to get some of the big brains on these boards to comment and offer insights.

 

Do you think Demandred hates Moridin?  Do you think he feels slighted by the Dark One?  Passed over for Ishamael despite having earned, in his own mind, the right to be Nae'blis?  Remember in the beginning of LoC, the DO told Demandred he MIGHT be named Nae'blis if he performed well in the task the DO set out for him, then the novel ends with Demandred saying "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" and the DO laughing, not out of spite, but presumably because he is pleased with how well Demandred has done.  Then, suddenly, Moridin shows up and is named Nae'blis over Demandred.  As far as I can remember, Demandred did not displease the Dark One between the end of LoC and the first mention of Moridin as Nae'blis.

 

If I was Demandred, I'd be a little miffed at this.  He was always upset at playing second-fiddle to Lews Therin in the Age of Legends, so he goes over to the DO, hoping for greater glory and a chance to kill Lews Therin.  Now suddenly, he must play second-fiddle to Moridin, and is forbidden from killing Rand (the only thing he really cares about), despite accomplishing the Great Lord's task and pleasing his master enough to send him into fits of laughter and glee (such as the DO is capable of).

 

Does anyone think this is going to be a factor in upcoming plot threads?

[mb]

Graendal was also offered the title, not just Demandred.

 

It seems that neither of them hates Moridin.

Demandred's attitude seems to be that Moridin is insane like Ishameal was.

Graendal, she seem to wait for Moridin to be removed.

 

[Talmanes]

The Dark One most likely never even considered either over Moridin, but just wanted to make them think he was to motivate them. Just more manipulation. Demandred probably is pissed, but isn't really in a position to do anything, so is being patient, and biding his time.

[Impressive Bosom]

I asked this in the middle of some other thread, but no one commented.  However I'd still like to get some of the big brains on these boards to comment and offer insights.

 

Do you think Demandred hates Moridin?  Do you think he feels slighted by the Dark One?  Passed over for Ishamael despite having earned, in his own mind, the right to be Nae'blis?  Remember in the beginning of LoC, the DO told Demandred he MIGHT be named Nae'blis if he performed well in the task the DO set out for him, then the novel ends with Demandred saying "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" and the DO laughing, not out of spite, but presumably because he is pleased with how well Demandred has done.  Then, suddenly, Moridin shows up and is named Nae'blis over Demandred.  As far as I can remember, Demandred did not displease the Dark One between the end of LoC and the first mention of Moridin as Nae'blis.

 

If I was Demandred, I'd be a little miffed at this.  He was always upset at playing second-fiddle to Lews Therin in the Age of Legends, so he goes over to the DO, hoping for greater glory and a chance to kill Lews Therin.  Now suddenly, he must play second-fiddle to Moridin, and is forbidden from killing Rand (the only thing he really cares about), despite accomplishing the Great Lord's task and pleasing his master enough to send him into fits of laughter and glee (such as the DO is capable of).

 

Does anyone think this is going to be a factor in upcoming plot threads?

 

I think Demandred is scheming against Morridin and that some crucial betrayal in the next book or two is very likely.

[Manel Rochaid]

From what we know so far, I'd say Demandred would be willing to move against Moridin, but ONLY if the Dark One gave permission for the Forsaken to begin plotting against each other again. At this point in the game, there seems to be too much at steak for the DO to let that happen though.

[mb]

Moving (explicitly) against the Naeblis I imagine would happen eventually regardless whether the Dark One gives expressed permission or not.

The Dark One probably expects (and might want) the Forsaken to move (explicitly and implicitly) against the Naeblis.

The other Forsaken might be currently moving implicitly against the Naeblis.

 

[Talmanes]

If the forsaken actually worked together instead of plotting against each other they could easily win. All they had to do is all come at the same time as soon as they discovered Rand existed and kill him. Would of been that easy.  :)

[Manel Rochaid]

Once Tamon Gai'don is over, no doubt the Forsaken will go back to petty squabling, but I doubt the DO will allow it in the next two books...therefore Moridin would have to majorly mess up for Demandred to feel safe going up against him.

 

By the way, anyone else suspect the DO will kill the Forsaken once he's free? I'm not saying I believe it, but it's always been a nagging suspicion that if he breaks loose he won't have any use for a group of vastly inferior beings.

[Owayn The Traveller]

If he breaks free I get the impression that thats pretty much it as far as life, existence, time and matter. And then The Great Lord of The Dark turns to the Creator ans says 'now thats what you get for not letting me play!'.

[mb]

All they had to do is all come at the same time as soon as they discovered Rand existed and kill him. Would of been that easy.

There are at least these problems with that::

-they seemed to have been released at different times

-a number of them have wanted to control him which they could not do with him being dead

-they seemed to have been ordered (at the beginning by the Dark One) to keep him alive if possible

-even if they could unite (and agree to kill him) at the earliest possible moment, the Pattern might have prevented them from killing him

 

[Taura-Tierno]

I definitely believe that Demandred would move against Moridin, if he could. I don't think the Dark One would mind. If Demandred defeats Moridin, he's obviously Moridin's better and thus more fit to lead the forces of the Shadow. The strongest one rules.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

- Robert Jordan, Question of the Week

 

I don't, however, believe that Demandred will move against Moridin. Not unless he knows he can win. He knows Moridin uses the True Power, which gives him a significant advantage over any other channeler. He's probably too well-protected for a pure, military strike to succeed in eliminating him. Also, if he could fight Moridin and win, but that victory resulting in casualties in the armies they command, that's a setback for the Shadow. Demandred gains nothing from that; it only lessens the likelihood of the Shadow being victorious in the end.

 

So, as long as Moridin is in control of things and remains the DO's good graces, Demandred won't attack. If Moridin's power and influence should wane, however, and Demandred could destroy him with little risk to himself or the armies of the Shadow? Yeah. I definitely believe that he would attack, and that the DO wouldn't mind. If Moridin's grown weak, he shouldn't be nae'blis.

[mb]

Demandred could win against Moridin if Demandred links with Darkfriend channelers (both halves of One Power); Mesaana would be the most probable that would help Demandred with the saidar channelers.

 

[Anoxanmore]

Demandred wouldn't have chance vs Moridin 1 on 1, even with the darkfriend channeler's Moridin has the most powerful woman at his side (currently anyway and mind trapped to boot), not to mention Moghidien, and she isn't exactly weak.

[Caveman_Nick]

Demandred wouldn't have chance vs Moridin 1 on 1, even with the darkfriend channeler's Moridin has the most powerful woman at his side (currently anyway and mind trapped to boot), not to mention Moghidien, and she isn't exactly weak.

 

Excepting that neither Cyndane or Moghedien would channel a whit to help Moridin if it came to it, because of that whole "Chanelling near your own mindtrap" issue.

[Anoxanmore]

Demandred wouldn't have chance vs Moridin 1 on 1, even with the darkfriend channeler's Moridin has the most powerful woman at his side (currently anyway and mind trapped to boot), not to mention Moghidien, and she isn't exactly weak.

 

Excepting that neither Cyndane or Moghedien would channel a whit to help Moridin if it came to it, because of that whole "Chanelling near your own mindtrap" issue.

Moridin doesn't always have the mind traps on his person.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Demandred wouldn't have chance vs Moridin 1 on 1, even with the darkfriend channeler's Moridin has the most powerful woman at his side (currently anyway and mind trapped to boot), not to mention Moghidien, and she isn't exactly weak.

 

Excepting that neither Cyndane or Moghedien would channel a whit to help Moridin if it came to it, because of that whole "Chanelling near your own mindtrap" issue.

Moridin doesn't always have the mind traps on his person.

 

Well he'll just have to attack when he has them.

[mb]

Where is it told that Moridin does not always have the mindtraps with him?

The times the mindtraps are not seen, he might be hiding them under or in his clothing.

 

[Anoxanmore]

When Cyndane or Moghidien Travel to and from his place... would be a key time. :P