Aes Sedai do not make good Damane

[BladeDancer]

I have a question regarding the 3 Oaths and A'dam.

 

The 3 Oaths compell the Aes Sedai who swears them to do the following:

 

1 To speak no lie

2 To forge no weapon with the One Power

3 Not to use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn, or to defend your own life, the life of her warder or another Aes Sedai.

 

In The Shadow Rising (Ch 1) it is made clear that Aes Sedai leashed with an A'dam cannot be compelled to lie - the Oath still constrains them despite the Suldam attempting to coerce them to do so. The Oath physically prevents the (former) Aes Sedai from lying.

 

My question is as follows - if an Aes Sedai is captured by the Seanchan and leashed with an A'dam, will the third Oath still prevent them from using the One Power as a weapon in battle like other Damane do. OK the Oath would not constrain them from using the One Power if they felt physically in danger but if their Sul'dam asked them to blow up a ship or cast lightening at an opposing army (that was not threatening the leashed Aes Sedai specifically) would the third Oath still apply? I would think it would, as the first Oath still bound the leashed Aes Sedai Pura (in TSR).

 

The implications of this would be that leashed Aes Sedai would be much more limited in use than other Damane (such as Windfinders/Seanchan channelers) as they could only use the One Power as a weapon in the limited circumstances as full Aes Sedai.

 

Am I right in this thinking? Have we seen leashed Aes Sedai use the One Power as a weapon in the Books at all? I cannot recall without a complete re-read.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

You are spot on correct, BladeDancer, the oaths still stand regardless.

[Sharaman]

KoD has Mylene, the AS Damane who can't use OP as a weapon and Karede musing on this peculiarity.

So yes, you're right.

 

[HighLordXanthus]

I wonder is a suldame threatened the life of her former aes sedai damane, if that would free her to cause battle damage.

[Impressive Bosom]

I wonder is a suldame threatened the life of her former aes sedai damane, if that would free her to cause battle damage.

Only is she believed that it freed her of her oath. I imagine that some would and some won't. The key vulnerability in the Oaths is how each individual interprets them.

 

Remember in one of the battles the Red Hand had when the Aes Sedai with them said 'I don't feel threatened yet' when he asked why she had not yet helped in the effort.

 

Also - and this is a small thing, Damane are not ONLY used as weapons... that is simply their most glorified use and the use we see most commonly in the books since the Seanchen are, essentially, an invading army. My guess is that you would see far more uses for the leashed ones during peacetime back in Seanchen proper.

[BladeDancer]

Also - and this is a small thing, Damane are not ONLY used as weapons... that is simply their most glorified use and the use we see most commonly in the books since the Seanchen are, essentially, an invading army. My guess is that you would see far more uses for the leashed ones during peacetime back in Seanchen proper.

 

I see that. Egwene was used to locate mineral deposits. It is made clear though that the power of the Seanchan Empire is based on using Damane in their Ever Victorious Army. The use of Channelling as a weapon gives them an edge over other armies (such as the Whitecloaks).

 

Presumably it could be possible for the Oath Rod to be used to nullify A'dam. An Aes Sedai could swear another Oath that they would never channel when leashed/under duress - this would make it impossible for them to be useful Damane. A'dam could then only be used to capture but not use Aes Sedai.

[BladeDancer]

Thinking about it, capturing and leashing Aes Sedai who could Travel would be of enormous benefit from a tactical perspective. The 3 Oaths would not prevent Damane from making or teaching Gateways.

[mb]

2 To forge no weapon with the One Power

That oath is actually to not make a weapon with which a man may kill another.  That is regardless of whether the One Power is used or not.

Weapons that can not kill would be allowed.

 

 

Weapons are not the only function of damane.  Healing and 'Sky Lights' are other things the Seanchan use damane for.

 

[icspots]

Thinking about it, capturing and leashing Aes Sedai who could Travel would be of enormous benefit from a tactical perspective. The 3 Oaths would not prevent Damane from making or teaching Gateways.

 

Teaching, no.  In one of the books an Aes Sedai remarks that using a gateway to move troops directly into battle was nearly like using it as a weapon.  Can't remember the POV or the book, but I want to say it was one of the Rebels and possibly in KoD.  Again it's all in the damane's perception.

[Sharaman]

Egwene thinks it through and is willing to make gateways into Tar Valon to drop Byrne's troops. So there is clearly wriggle room. What is more, once the Amyrlin has set a precedent, other AS won't have to even worry about this.

Of course, the captured damane are Elaida-supporters but I'm sure the Seanchan will be able to convince Suffa that this is cool and she can be a very good damane and make gateways to transport soldiers.

That will be good enough for other damane.

 

[42Bonzo88]

    If I remember The Great Hunt correctly, Egwene was "special" because she could use Earth so Strongly. I agree with IB that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with the damane only being weapons. If damane purpose was only battle, then if the Seanchan couldn't handle women channelers "running around unleashed" then why not just kill them off.

[mb]

In one of the books an Aes Sedai remarks that using a gateway to move troops directly into battle was nearly like using it as a weapon.

I do not recall any such scene.

Transporting troops I think most Aes Sedia would consider as not a weapon.

Deathgates I think would be the only gateways most Aes Sedia would consider as weapons; though those would be harmful only against shadowspawn, so they would not violate the oath.

 

[jemron]

In one of the books an Aes Sedai remarks that using a gateway to move troops directly into battle was nearly like using it as a weapon.

I do not recall any such scene.

Transporting troops I think most Aes Sedia would consider as not a weapon.

Deathgates I think would be the only gateways most Aes Sedia would consider as weapons; though those would be harmful only against shadowspawn, so they would not violate the oath.

 

 

That scene might've been a TGS spoiler... I mean, it was/is...

[lsm]

maybe it was KoD? but i remember it wasnt stated as being a weapon just something that some may think is on the edge of it skirting the oath

[Jemlin]

In one of the books an Aes Sedai remarks that using a gateway to move troops directly into battle was nearly like using it as a weapon.

I do not recall any such scene.

Transporting troops I think most Aes Sedia would consider as not a weapon.

Deathgates I think would be the only gateways most Aes Sedia would consider as weapons; though those would be harmful only against shadowspawn, so they would not violate the oath.

 

 

lol Deathgates would be just as harmful against non-shadowspawn when they slice the troops in half =D