Blade of Light, Three Become One. (Full Spoilers).

[Elros]

I'm throwing my support on the Fortuona, Egwene, Rand link with Callandor.  Part of me really wants to see Egwene control the weaves while Rand sword fights with Callandor and Fortuona does something i haven't worked out yet.

 

(Something we may have missed is that LTT rediscovered the art of sword fighting, Check me on this but it may have been in 4-6. I know wrong thread but it relates to the above)  If this is true then the Sword and Dragon may be linked in the Wheel. The sword re-appearing to be the dragons tool against the DO.

[jemron]

And yes, Callandor should be fine now because there is no Taint anymore. The flaw is no longer a worry. So there must be something more to the Flaw.

 

I disagree.  The flaw can still effect someone who uses Callandor, because the flaw has less to do with the Taint, and more to do with the amount of OP Callandor allows to be channeled through it.  The flaw is that the "buffer" that normally exists with a sa'angreal or angreal that prevents a channeler from drawing too much than is safe is missing from Callandor.

 

Because of this lack of buffer, the taint was also magnified when Callandor was used.  Now that the taint is gone, it obviously can't effect someone who uses Callandor, but they can still draw to much and burn themselves out, since the buffer doesn't exist.

 

Also, some have mentioned that the "flaw" was intentional by those who created it, and that it was put there to force a male to use a circle with women to make Callandor work properly.  RJ specifically stated that the flaw was not intentional, but that it was a manufacturer's error.  So, to say that it was always meant to be used by a circle of a man and women is incorrect; however, this does not mean that it still shouldn't be used that way.  It is likely that by using Callandor with a circle of a man and women (I assume two women) the buffer is there because of the circle, and Callandor is safer because of it.

[OHurley]

Jemron-

 

Flawed by a manufacturer's goof... I wonder if they purchased the extended warranty? Think it's still good? lol

[jemron]

Jemron-

 

Flawed by a manufacturer's goof... I wonder if they purchased the extended warranty? Think it's still good? lol

 

Hehe...  Yeah, it does seem a bit strange, but that's what RJ said.  Here is the quote:

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

 

Here is the link:

http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/9895

[Canis Rufus]

Bear with me as this will get even more metaphysical than I've seen on these boards.  First we must remember the most basic of themes throughout the book is the wheel.  Everything is cyclical, people are reborn and ages are recycled so on and so forth.  So based on these laws of time and nature in Rand-land then it is possible that every person could be reborn more so under certain situations the more important to the pattern the more apt to be recycled.  So here is where it’s going to get wonky.  The original attempt to seal the boar failed but I think that Lewis, who was Tavern, was pulled into the pattern to help hold the seal.  As the Seals weakened so did the patterns hold on Lewis allowing him to be pulled somewhere between being reborn and holding the seal.  Next we have Rand who if physics holds would have been born to slay the Big bad or become the big bad.  So assuming everything we know about the pattern is true then it would stand that Lewis would have been reborn as Rand but since he was in a limbo then the process wouldn’t work creating a new entity.  With everything else being recycled a new “thread” would have the most power to create or destroy.  The Pattern tried to force Lewis into rand but the new thread, Rand, fought it off.  So Rand is outside of the Pattern as is Lewis as well as the Dark one.  Now understand there cannot be light without dark and assuming that you accept Rand as the Light and the Dark one as the Dark then Lewis will be the “thread” that binds them together.  Think on the symbolism in the book with the yen yang and the white flame of the White Tower and the dragon fang carved on evil doers the two sides of the yen yang unhinged.  Not that far out there if you go into the physics that RL set up.      

[Canis Rufus]

I'm sorry I'm saying that the three are the Darkone Rand and Lewis

[imperium3]

IMO the three becoming one are the ta'veren reuniting against the DO, as per Min's viewing ages ago. How long is it since they were last together?

 

Now, since Mr Ares is nowhere in sight, it seems time to go shoot down some of the more outlandish theories in this thread...

 

I'm throwing my support on the Fortuona, Egwene, Rand link with Callandor.  Part of me really wants to see Egwene control the weaves while Rand sword fights with Callandor and Fortuona does something i haven't worked out yet.

 

I will agree with Firebird and say that the idea of Tuon joining in the link is... ridiculous. She can't be THAT powerful if she doesn't have the spark, Rand won't trust her, she hasn't got a clue how to use her abilities, and she would consider it an abomination to do so. So are you suggesting she'll go from her current state to an uber-channeler in the course of 1 1/2 books? Even Cadsuane might be a better candidate.

 

Furthermore Lews Therin says that the reason Saidin was tainted was because it touched the DO (I don't have the quote on me at the moment, but it happens as Rand returns from the blight after dropping Ituralde off there). So if they go up against the DO, after clearing the seals, they will have to touch him with some power. The only one he can't taint is the TP, so that will be used to force him back while Saidar and Saidin are used to seal the bore.

One of my theories too is this: That the DO can't STOP the Dragon from wielding the True Power. Possibly by the baelfire link with Moridin, possibly because he is the Dragon. I mean, he's always been able to see the Black Cords. Being able to see something usually means you have the ability to access/use it when it comes to the powers. Certainly it is a terrible thing to use the True Power, but I'd guess that the Dragon using it must be for that point.

 

I'm pretty sure the DO could "turn the TP off" if he wanted to. Besides, the idea of him being held back in the Bore by his own power is absurd and would make for a lame ending IMHO. And what's with "if you can see it, you can use it"? Egwene for example can see saidar woven by other AS but that doesn't mean she can use their power without their permission (in the form of a link). It's a two-way thing.

 

To add further ammo to this, remember the whole thing about not being able to lift yourself up with the OP. I wonder if holding back the DO with the TP (his own essence) would be like this? So you wouldn't be able to use it even if he wanted you to?

 

Hope I didn't sound rude, I just hate seeing theories like that flying around. :D

 

[randfandom]

My own theory involves the fact of the 'flaw' in Callandor, which might not really be a flaw.

 

My guess is this:

 

Callandor is a Sa'angreal not just for the Male half, but also for the TRUE power. The reason it magnified the Taint is because the Taint and the True Power were effectively identical to it.

 

Agree.

 

I assume the Three Become One involves the three Powers:

 

Saidin.

Saidar.

The True Power.

 

Perhaps Rand has to use the True Power to restrain or hold back the Dark One, while using Saidin and Saidar both to seal the hole, via a link. Robert Jordan pretty much said, if I recall one interview correctly, that if just women did it then it would be Saidar that would have been tainted, and if both did, they both would have been.

 

No, RJ said that if women participated, both Saidin and Saidar would have been tainted, causing complete destruction of the world.

 

I don't think the "three" can possibly be Saidin, Saidar and TP, because Saidin and Saidar are simply two sides of the same power. Also, there is no hint anywhere that Callandor can be used to channel Saidar, and in fact, there are plenty comments (e.g. Lanfear) that it can't. Of course, using the TP (essence of the DO) to seal the DO is not going to work, because the combined OP seals will then touch the TP filler, bringing us back to the original problem.

I also don't believe Rand will relinquish weaving control to women, nor that if he did, he will involve his lovers, both of whom will be pregnant at the time.

 

Whatever the filler is, it must be comprised of something that is neither TP, nor OP and that reacts and absorbed the TP. The only such substance we know of is the Shadar Logoth taint. It currently only exists in two places: Fain's dagger and Rand's blood. I don't think RJ will have Fain play a Gollum-like role in the Sealing - it will be too much like LoTR... I think Fain and his dagger will play a role, but will be destroyed before the final Sealing is done. I believe the filler to block the DO will be the Dragon's blood. This fits both the above and also what the huge emphasis that the prophecies put on the Dragon's blood being shed as the sacrifice that brings salvation to the world. Rand will have to die for that to happen, sigh...

[Shmuel Goldberg]

The three becoming one might be Rand, LTT, and Moridin. Rand has two voices in his head, one is (was) LTT, the other likely Moridin from the balefire incident. We've seen reintegration of LTT. We haven't seen a resolution of the Rand/Moridin plotline. They might merge for a while (like slayer) which is when Rand 'dies'. Alivia is doing the 'merging', hence she 'helps Rand die'. The merging of LTT and Ishamael inside Rand's head will give him the precise knowledge of how to seal the DO's prison. Moridin/Rand will be able to use the TP, maybe without suspicions by the DO.

 

I also agree that '3->1' will be ambiguous. Rand will also nee Mat and Perrin. Maybe it's about his girlfriends. Or several other things.

[Calderis]

oh well, seems my thoughts were just refuted before I got to say them.

 

I'd been thinking after one of LTT's rants in tGS, that the reason that saidin was tainted was because ONLY it was used in sealing the bore.

 

Do you have a link to where it says if both were used it would have tainted both? Because frankly the idea of using the TP is ridiculous. LTT FREAKED when rand did it, and knowing what it is, it's not a weapon to be used, but a tool to corrupt rand if he tries. I doubt his access to it was unintentional on the dark one's part, because, as has been said throughout the series, why kill rand when he could be turned?

 

The power HAS to be used to seal the bore, or to kill the dark one. but saidin was tainted because it touched him. I'd like to see where it was stated that if both were used the world would end, because as I see it the ONLY way to finish it is to use both in tandem to protect each side.

[sdelu]

I'd been thinking after one of LTT's rants in tGS, that the reason that saidin was tainted was because ONLY it was used in sealing the bore

 

...

 

The power HAS to be used to seal the bore, or to kill the dark one. but saidin was tainted because it touched him.

 

No, not exactly. It was tainted by a voluntary counterattack by the DO, not because it was the only one used, and not merely because it "touched" him. I believe LTT says that this was the reason, but RJ says different.

 

Also, I'm fairly sure RJ has said that had the female Aes Sedai joined in the sealing, saidar would have been tainted as well.

 

in any event, once again the quote that shows saidin was tainted by chance and the DO's reaction, not because of any failure on LTT's side of things:

 

Q: Is there a reason the Dark One could not or would not retaint saidin?

 

RJ: The conditions would have to be exactly right. Those conditions were set up while the seals were being placed on the Bore. The chances that exactly those conditions would occur again are fairly small. And that is saying that it was a volitional act rather than a side-effect of trying to stop the seals from being placed. After all, if the Dark One could taint saidin at will, why could he not taint saidar as well, and why would he not have done so?

 

Saidin ONLY could have been tainted under those particular circumstances, and the DO did so purposely.

 

That said, I do agree that in order to seal the DO completely, both facets of the OP must be used in unison. I don't understand the whole "TP to kill the DO" thing myself. There is no possible reason they will need to use the TP to achieve their goals, they just need a plan that won't give the DO a chance to taint the OP. So, to me, that scratches the "TP-saidin-saidar" becoming one theory right off when it comes down to it (at least, insofar as the 3 being used to seal the DO). Yes, I can see the validity in it, but there's a lot going against it as well. Besides, it would be really dumb if that's how they won it.

 

[Hemis AlRhoid]

The Rand-Moridin-LTT angle seems to be dead since the end of tGS and Rand's integration of the LTT personality. It's always seemed unlikely since any personality created with Moridin would have a high probability of resulting in insanity. His personality would be in diametric opposition to the others.

 

The 3 powers becoming one is a theory that I entertained prior to this, but as another poster pointed out the Dark One would simply cut off the power if he sensed it being used against him. After pondering some of the other comments the only way this theory would still work is if Callandor was able to tap the TP without the Dark One's consent. Which doesn't discount the theory, but it requires us to give Callandor an ability that the books have setup to be at the sole discretion of the Dark One.

 

The 3 Ta'veren somehow merging doesn't seem all that logical. The blade of light is a pretty obvious reference to Callandor and neither Matt nor Perrin can channel at all. So there is isn't a realistic scenario in my mind where a flawed sa'angreal can somehow meld these people together. Especially since 2 of the 3 can't even channel.

 

This would make the Rand +2 channelers the most plausible theory, but not a very satisfying one. The most exciting would be if Callandor was able to somehow tap the TP and help to create a seal using the Dark One's own power against him. But this requires some large leaps if it were to happen. Along with going against how the TP has been explained it would also indicate that the people responsible for making the sword had enough knowledge of the TP to create a sa'angreal to tap it. Which also doesn't seem likely considering that the creator(s) would had to have enough standing with Dark One to access the TP, yet make a device designed to aid his biggest foe. With what we know of the Dark One, he would see through such a ruse. So while it's exciting, it's not very plausible.

 

Going out in left field, the blade of light could refer to Justice and the uniting of Rand, the Seanchan, and the Aes Sedai under it. But the description really does seem to be Callandor, so this is probably not very likely.     

[randfandom]

Also, I'm fairly sure RJ has said that had the female Aes Sedai joined in the sealing, saidar would have been tainted as well.

 

I believe that's what he said once, but couldn't find the quote. Below is some reference to this issue in "The Strike at Shayol Ghul" - a short story written by RJ about the breaking, which is available free online. Unfortunately it leaves the question in the air.

 

(1) Speculation of the wilder sort is rife among some who call themselves historians, and the discovery of this material has resulted in the expected from the usual quarters. Would the great sa'angreal have proven effective used as Patra Posae desired? Had the seals been placed by a circle comprised of men and women together, might the men, or even saidin itself, have been protected in some fasion from the Dark One's counter stroke? Or would saidar have been tainted as well? The last possibility is enough to curdle the coldest blood, yet the fact is that events transpired as they transpired, and such speculation is no more than a fireside game to frighten the gullible. Those I speak of will know who I mean. Back

 

[1eejit]

I don't really like the idea of Mat-Perrin-Rand: COMBINE INTO DESTRUCTO-MEGA-MECH-TA'VEREN! It could be Rand-Moridin (already underway) and someone else, perhaps any remnant of LTT, or Fain (though doesn't he already count as an amalgam of two+?) as the countpoint to the Nae'blis.

 

I'm throwing my support on the Fortuona, Egwene, Rand link with Callandor.  Part of me really wants to see Egwene control the weaves while Rand sword fights with Callandor and Fortuona does something i haven't worked out yet.

 

I will agree with Firebird and say that the idea of Tuon joining in the link is... ridiculous. She can't be THAT powerful if she doesn't have the spark, Rand won't trust her, she hasn't got a clue how to use her abilities, and she would consider it an abomination to do so. So are you suggesting she'll go from her current state to an uber-channeler in the course of 1 1/2 books? Even Cadsuane might be a better candidate.

I agree with your argument, but the bold point is incorrect. Sharina Melloy proves that someone without the spark has the potential to be in the top tiers strength-wise.

[entropic]

It's been I long time since I've been on here, but I thought after reading tGS I had to get back on.

 

        It seems to me that the Saidin, Saidar, TP theory is debunked. For all the reasons stated, but another very simple fact as well. Who is going to be using Saidin? Rand could not channel both Saidin and the TP at once, it is impossible. I personally believe that theory is a bit ridiculous, but then again I digress, I do not have my own theory on the matter. I immediately assumed after reading that it meant the two female channelers and Rand wielding Callandor together.

[Breeze]

I dont necessarily believe it has to be connected to the OP.

 

Couldnt the union mean the 3 big powers in the world of good?:

 

• White Tower
  
• Black Tower
  
• Seanchan
  

 

 

EDIT: Hmm i see "Hemis Al'Rhoid" poster have updated his post while i was reading during the day with the exact same idea, i had all these pages opened and only now just finished - coincidence or just the fate of the pattern?!?

 

 

[Crael123]

i have a feeling that this is something that will completely catch us off guard like who killed asmo. we will find out what this is in the next book but i seriously doubt that it is rand linking with avi and elayne [ curse that foul being!  >:(] but it will definatly involve rand we know that much  :)

[sdelu]

Also, I'm fairly sure RJ has said that had the female Aes Sedai joined in the sealing, saidar would have been tainted as well.

 

I believe that's what he said once, but couldn't find the quote. Below is some reference to this issue in "The Strike at Shayol Ghul" - a short story written by RJ about the breaking, which is available free online. Unfortunately it leaves the question in the air.

 

Got it, for those wondering.

 

Q:  Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?

...

RJ:  Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go.  And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [it was actually the “Fateful Concord” – Terez], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it.  The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.

 

Now, don't everyone jump on this as proof that the TP must be used in the three becoming one. They just need a better plan than LTT's.

 

Here's a question. When Elza and co. were using Callandor, was there any mention of her wielding saidar? I'm pretty sure Callandor is a male sa'angreal, allowing only the use of saidin, in which case the whole idea of the 3 dealing with the OP is ridonculous.

[WolfDragonFox]

I am gonna stick to my guns on my theory of all the 3's needing ot unite, but The Rand LTT Moridin 3 is one I left out and am glad was pointed out here. 

 

I recall a little LTT mental quote regarding something along the lines of "...you, me, and the other one."  I dont remember the beginning of the quote but I know this whas how it ended and we know the "other one" is Moridin so I am officially adding them into the ULTRA TRIO MEGA TRI SUPER THREE THEORY!  Yes I'm calling it that from now on!

[emyali]

I know a lot of people reckon Elayne and Avi, but I reckon Elayne will be about to pop her babies around the time of the LB and her chanelling ability is all messed up because of her pregnancy, so I really don't see it being her. Avi is a possibility though.

 

I also like the idea of Mat, Perrin and Rand as the Three becoming One. It's possible too.

 

 

 

in (Book 11: Knife of Dreams).. after Aviendha's departure, Elayne chanelled saidar easily -she was surprised of that- but she did anyway.

i think her chanelling ability won't be that much messed up any more

and in a circle, she will have just to link with them, not doing anything crafty with the power

[TossTheDice]

After reading this, I think the flaw in Callandor was a twist in the Pattern. Lews Therin said he attached the anchor to the DO because he couldn't see anything else to attach it to. IIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Bore was drilled by both halves of the OP. The Hundred Companions were all male, so they couldn't see Saidar. If you think of the Bore into the Pattern as a rip, one part Saidar, the other part Saidin, then all Rand and his linked women need to do is sew it back together. The flaw in Callandor was put there by the Pattern so women would NEED to be part of the sealing. That's one of my theories anyway.

[NegaWalker]

Note:

 

I didn't make myself clear for my theory I suppose if someone misread me. My theory is the 'flaw' isn't really a flaw, but rather a twist from the Pattern made to be used. Or perhaps it was intended all along.

 

My theory is that it works as a Sa'angreal for the Male Half and the True Power. And, while linked or working with women, Rand must use all three powers as the lead of the circle to seal the bore. I did not mention that Callandor can augment the Female half, though I can see where you got that wrong.

 

I expect because it also magnifies the taint it also magnifies the True Power if channeled through it.

 

We'll see.

[karehiro]

lol Why do people keep on saying Elayne and Aviendha will be the ones to link with Rand?  When was it ever even hinted that they would have any importance in the Last Battle?  Yeah, let's not count the fact that both women will be if not pregnant then in a state after childbirth, which makes them useless for a showdown at Shayol Ghul, but when have they ever played any major role in Rand's storyline besides as romantic interests?  Oh that's right: never.

 

This is not even counting the fact that the person Rand needs in order to actually win is Moiraine, a woman he needs to learn from is Cadsuane, a woman who he needs to help him "die" is Alivia, a woman who's helping him out in terms of finding a way to beat the Dark One is Min, and the person he works best with is Nynaeve.  You know, people who actually play a significant role in Rand's story.  Where exactly would Elayne and Aviendha fit in, and why, considering they're not necessary, as well as inferior to the task of everyone in this list?  Heck, Tuon has a greater chance of linking with Rand than those two in terms of story.

 

Seems to much like wishful thinking to me, and not grounded in any sort of reality.

 

--

 

Anyway, re: the Blade of Light, since they're saying Rand will hold a blade of light in his hands, it seems as if he'll use that blade after he's put into a new body (likely Moridin's).  I brought this up before, but that also may have a link to the "blade of Light" Rand created in The Eye of the World; that was a sword he only used one time in the whole series, and I guess it was so powerful because he used the Eye of the World (it's nothing at all like the fire power-wrought blade).  But he still knows the weave because it's in Lews Therin's memories so it may be that sword they're referring to.

[Canis Rufus]

The Pattern keeps repeating itself which I think goes against its nature that’s the physics of it.  LTT attack on the Bore has left him as a pin causing the "twist" in the Pattern in an essence creating a mobius strip.  So the three patterns Rand Ltt and DO will have to be combined and then cut from the pattern so the pattern can continue and not repeat again.  "A time yet to come for others,"  Back to the circle idea.  The Flaw in the sword is that it is outside the pattern like a pair of scissors. 

[BondedRed]

Moiraine has to be a crucial part to the link with Callandor. She and Lanfear are both on the other side of that doorway with Moiraine picking Lanfear's brain about boring that hole to the DO. Mierin Sedai was the fool who did it! Moiraine will assist in placing the attack correctly.