Shaidar Haran (Full Spoilers).

[Luckers]

As requested. If you look in the compilation there are some interesting Q&A points on the Big Bad.

[Shmuel Goldberg]

Shouldn't it be Shaidar Haran?

[Luckers]

Yes.

[cleantoe]

Still misspelled...lol

[Luckers]

Lies. Vicious, vicious lies.

[analyticalkeys]

There was a MoM on the topic title.

 

So what do you guys think Shaidar Haran's ultimate role is going to be by the time the series is done? I feel like he has something rather big to do before he goes out.

[dbo -WoT-]

Also, how do people think he will go out?

[Luckers]

I was thinking maybe Perrin--whole, wolf hatred of the Neverborn and all that.

 

He needs to overcome some of his limitations first though.

[wotjunkie]

i suspect he is the Avatar for the DO so i suspect he will need to be killed by rand, not sure anyone else could deal with him ...

[HighLordXanthus]

I have to agree that Rand will most likely be the one to take him out.  Perrin I believe will take out Slayer, as they seem to be more evenly matched due to the wolf dream/T'A'R connection.

 

Now about SH, I think a great deal of his abilites come from being able to manipulate the ties that forsaken and darkfriend channellers have to the darkone.  This could be how he is able to hinder them from channeling.

[dbo -WoT-]

I have to agree that Rand will most likely be the one to take him out.  Perrin I believe will take out Slayer, as they seem to be more evenly matched due to the wolf dream/T'A'R connection.

 

Now about SH, I think a great deal of his abilites come from being able to manipulate the ties that forsaken and darkfriend channellers have to the darkone.  This could be how he is able to hinder them from channeling.

I agree with you on that. Some things BS said that are listed in the Q&A section about SH seem to imply that. I could dig them up if anyone doubts me. Either way, I think SH won't be able to shield Rand from channeling using the method he uses on the Forsaken.

[wotjunkie]

Also, how do people think he will go out?

 

from what we know he seems to have a tie to SG that prevents him from staying away too long, but we dont really know if this was created by the DO to keep SH in line or if it is a result of the seals and his connection to the DO, if i was a gambling man, and i am  ;D id wager that its the DO keeping him under his thumb

 

*note i may be a gambling man, but not a very succesful one at times so who knows  :D

[Rand Skywalker]

For me, SH was at his most evil and foreboding in this book.  Considering that Shaidar Haran's actions lead to Rand using the True Source, becoming "dark," and almost destroying reality, the guy comes across as seriously freaky.

 

It seems clear that SH is the DO's avatar, and I wonder how much Moridin knows about his plans/actions.  We haven't really seen these two interact, right?

[dbo -WoT-]

For me, SH was at his most evil and foreboding in this book.  Considering that Shaidar Haran's actions lead to Rand using the True Source, becoming "dark," and almost destroying reality, the guy comes across as seriously freaky.

 

It seems clear that SH is the DO's avatar, and I wonder how much Moridin knows about his plans/actions.  We haven't really seen these two interact, right?

 

We haven't seen them meet, and I really want to before either is weakened, killed, or gone for whatever other reason.

I wonder if SH can block TP use, and, as Moridin is Nae'blis, I assume SH must defer to Moridin???

 

As to any interaction, SH brought one of the Forsaken (almost positive it was Moghedien) to Moridin. I'm assuming they

interacted at that point, but we weren't given the opportunity to glimpse how that went.

[Sentinel78]

I always saw SH as the DO's Avatar, meaning either that the DO directly controlled his actions or imprinted his 'personality' into SH.  Otherwise, SH wouldn't have some DO-specific personality traits among Fades, like a (very) dark sense of humor, as we know the DO laughs from his interactions with Demandred in Book 6.

 

It's possible that SH's 'weakness' could be a control mechanism of the DO, as the DO is quite the control freak, I just never saw it that way.  When SH marked Alviarin and punished Mesaana for disobeying Moridin, SH seemed to function as an actual conduit for the DO.  If the DO could just take over SH's body directly whenever he wanted to, why bother with other control mechanisms?  Just wouldn't seem necessary.

 

As far as who kills him, my bet is either Rand or he'll die as soon as the DO is resealed without an actual 'death' scene.

[maradon]

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Padan Fain will kill Shaidar Haran. If SH can stop channelers from even sensing the true source then I can't realy see a channeler killing him, therefore the next most powerful character after all the channelers (that aren't shadowspawn) is Fain, he is even referenced as being more powerful than alot of channelers. Furthermore he is a character that has been developed since the first book, he needs a big role...

[1eejit]

Now about SH, I think a great deal of his abilites come from being able to manipulate the ties that forsaken and darkfriend channellers have to the darkone.  This could be how he is able to hinder them from channeling.

Agreed. Certainly it's premature to assume he can stop anychanneler from sensing the Source.

[blackjon]

Now about SH, I think a great deal of his abilites come from being able to manipulate the ties that forsaken and darkfriend channellers have to the darkone.  This could be how he is able to hinder them from channeling.

Agreed. Certainly it's premature to assume he can stop anychanneler from sensing the Source.

 

unless of course channelling the True Power has made some sort of connection that he now can exploit. might have been part of the grand plan...

[1eejit]

True, the TP channeling or even the Moridin-Rand link could give SH some effect on him, even if most of his power is normally limited to use on Darkfriends.

[Sentinel78]

True, the TP channeling or even the Moridin-Rand link could give SH some effect on him, even if most of his power is normally limited to use on Darkfriends.

 

Wow, good catch.  BS mentioned there would be "consequences" from Rand's TP-channeling.  I was thinking dark aura or physical-type consequences, but the consequences could also be that the DO's ace in the hole is SH showing up and having power over Rand now...

[1eejit]

Hopefully if that happens then Rand has some pals (or a crazy mortal enemy :P) standing by ready to burn SH to ash.

[bushleague]

As requested. If you look in the compilation there are some interesting Q&A points on the Big Bad.

 

Thanks for putting it up Luckers! :)

 

As for Shaidar Haran, we can't be sure he's the DO's avatar.  The DO definatly has total control over him but we see in his PoV where he's watching Sammael and Graendal with the Shaido where he says he's tired and wants to be free of the control of Shayol Ghul.  You could make the argument that its the DO who wants to be free, but I don't think it is.

 

I'm just really curious about his powers/limitations.  Apparently he can only leave Shayol Ghul for a small amount of time.  But the fact that he can suddenly appear anywhere (like a regular Fade's ability with shadows), and cut everyone (or at least DO's minions) off from the power.  Whats to stop this guy from appearing in the middle of Perrin or Mat's camp and causing havoc then leaving?  I know it wouldn't happen, but it seems he's got some ridiculous powers.

 

How do you stop a guy like that?  Especially if he's much larger than a regular Fade?

 

This guy will be trouble at the final battle...

[jemron]

I disagree that SH can "appear anywhere."  I think, as has been stated, that SH shares some sort of link with certain individuals (Forsaken, Alviarin, Fain?) and, just as he can cut off the Forsaken from the OP (presumably through that link), so can he find them through that same link.

 

SH uses the link (I'm assuming these are the black chords) to visit and/or travel near to the Forsaken and others who may be linked in some fashion (Alviarin comes to mind).  Now I don't remember exactly, but did SH appear to Alviarin while Mesaana was in the room, or was Mesaana nowhere to be found at the time?  IIRC Alviarin saw SH punishing Mesaana, and that's when he "marked" her somehow.

 

 

[sdelu]

Well, it really depends on whether or not SH's thoughts were him wishing for freedom from the DO or him wishing for freedom from SG. Just because he wants to be free from SG does NOT mean that he is the DO. So, really, it seems that some possibilities are:

 

- his thoughts are the DO's thoughts

- he wants to be free of the DO's control

- he wants to be free from SG to go around killing everything.

 

I really can't see the DO giving someone that speaks with his voice any sort of autonomy, so my guess is that he doesn't want to be free of the DO, but to have his power in its entirety.

 

Of course, I wonder just how it is the DO has created him. Possibly merging someone's soul with the soul of a Fade? That's the only way I could really see him having a "personality." If so, would it be a specific person, or would anyone do?

 

 

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Padan Fain will kill Shaidar Haran. If SH can stop channelers from even sensing the true source then I can't realy see a channeler killing him, therefore the next most powerful character after all the channelers (that aren't shadowspawn) is Fain, he is even referenced as being more powerful than alot of channelers. Furthermore he is a character that has been developed since the first book, he needs a big role...

 

Of course Fain will have a big role. He's pretty much Gollum.

[1eejit]

Fain might kill SH, but I suspect his main role will be to kill the DO himself.