Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[WolfDragonFox]

Whoa Whoa Whoa....she's not that kind of girl!  *hand on chest acosted expression.*

 

lol j/k she will prolly not sex him up but get all cuddle happy and super flirty and break down that cool attitude.

[Always]

I'm probably in the Murandy camp. If he's literally ruling somewhere that seems an ideal candidate to me; it's also fairly well placed geographically speaking for interfering with Rands unified South and the Seanchan's base of operations.

 

That or he's masquerading as Weiramon, and has been subtly manipulating the formation of Darlin's forces whilst being as unDemandred-like as possibly (bar the nose) =p

[thewalrus777]

I'm probably in the Murandy camp. If he's literally ruling somewhere that seems an ideal candidate to me; it's also fairly well placed geographically speaking for interfering with Rands unified South and the Seanchan's base of operations.

 

That or he's masquerading as Weiramon, and has been subtly manipulating the formation of Darlin's forces whilst being as unDemandred-like as possibly (bar the nose) =p

 

I couldn't see him being in Tear, seeing as Bel'al had called it home before he got BF'd with the OP by the DR. And besides it's been pretty much seen in the series, that the Forsaken heavily prefer their own rule. I would imagine that Demandred was already sowing some seeds of chaos elsewhere while Bel'al was tending his Nets in Tear.

[Morsmordre]

Is there a reason why Demandred wouldn't be somewhere where an abolished Forsaken has been. Rahvin, for instance. What could stop Demandred trying to control Andor in some way? Rahvin died in the fifth book and nobody from the other Forsaken seemed to know where Demandred had hidden. Yes, Rand was in Caemlyn for a very long time which means that either Demandred had chosen to stay out of his sight or he had been staying out of Rand's way but still doing something in Andor.

 

I'm telling you, Demandred is with the Ashaman. Yes, he has done much more than turning many of them against Rand and under his control (meaning 'the events in the South'), but his lair is in the Black Tower.

[Vulgir]

I'm telling you, Demandred is with the Ashaman. Yes, he has done much more than turning many of them against Rand and under his control (meaning 'the events in the South'), but his lair is in the Black Tower.

 

Events to the South doesn't reffer to the BT.

 

Georaphically the BT is  more east of where Sammael is when he makes the comment.

 

Also the BT is just being established at this time.

 

Most likely he is reffering to the Seanchan or the Prohpet.

[Kaveman26]

Compulsion driving the borderlands rulers south from the Blight seems unlikely to me. As i recall (i will have to look up the chapter) they have their own little meeting to vote on whether they leave or not. They seem to have been in control of their actions. Might be worth checking that particular passage to see if any characters are present that seem out of place though.

[Morsmordre]

I'm telling you, Demandred is with the Ashaman. Yes, he has done much more than turning many of them against Rand and under his control (meaning 'the events in the South'), but his lair is in the Black Tower.

 

Events to the South doesn't reffer to the BT.

 

Georaphically the BT is  more east of where Sammael is when he makes the comment.

 

Also the BT is just being established at this time.

 

Most likely he is reffering to the Seanchan or the Prohpet.

 

I didn't mean that the BT is in the South. I meant that Demandred is responsible for all the events to the South. Meaning all chaotic events that occurred in the sixth book.

[Vulgir]

ahh, i agree with that statement, sorry i was confused by the way you phrased it.

[Sharaman]

Do bear in mind that RJ said his secret ID had not been seen onscreen till CoT at least. So if there's been some form of compulsion/ persuasion used on Borderlanders in PoD, we won't see Demandred doing it, though his secret ID may be referenced as somebody offscreen.

Ditto wrt Weiramon - he may be a Friend o' t'Dark but he's not Dem.

I was devastated when I realised this restriction excluded Berelain as well.

The First would have made such a good Demandred.

 

[Bastor]

Ok. Armies that MIGHT be under Demi's influence:

Blight - oh well trollocs and fades pretty self explanatory

Black Tower - Taim's little buddy

Shara - no background info

Seanchan - over the sea...I mean he did like to plot with his two other Forsaken buddies....why not one be on one side of the ocean and the other in Randland? He might have even had something to do with the killing of the Empress herself ...the issue is where is he marching to so far off

Land of Madmen - wuh...no info out there either

Andor - Charlz Guybon....a name that was actually auctioned....not sure when Charlez was introduced and when the first Taim=Demi ideas came up but I suppose it might have something to do with RJ being figured out and hastily changing his plan

Masema's guys - I am almost 100% sure that he was the one appearing in the visions of the Prophet...the description matches the way Forsaken appear very nicely

BA -....cus being black is kewl xD

 

Anyway let us start logical elimination:

Black Tower - Low chance since he does not recognize their uniforms. Still Taim MIGHT be under his influence but I am willing to go for "Taim is going solo there". ==> BT is out

Blight armies - pretty logical. The only issue here is that he has always been in command and has never had any problems dealing with the trollocs as far as we know.....the whole taking command and marching stuff seems a bit too big of a way of saying your telling the trollocs what to do....I mean did he really need 7 books to amass an army of trollocs that have always obeyed the Forsaken? ==> out

Shara - Very little information on it. He might be king there and he might have an army without being king. We do not know how they function. Im betting on sharans coming to aid the light side in the last battle one way or another.==>Stays

Seanchan - This is pretty close to being a very sure thing. It must take a lot of time to infiltrate the hight blood and murder the empress and the whole royal family  and maybe decalre yorself emperor? I mean we know we will have some action over at the seanchan side of the sea why not let Demi be there? ==> Probable

LoM - no info...as good of a guess as any....

Andor - Yeah. Elayne thinks Charles has not smiled in a very long time...hmm he also gets a nice cozy promotion....who knows.... still if he turns out to be guybon he is going to be the most lazy Forsaken ever...i mean he put no work in his position...he just brought a few troops to Elayne.... ==>out

Prophets army - as sated above almost 100% sure Demi was telling them what to do but this is no organised force....it is just a diversion tool to wreak chaos imho ==>out

BA - Of course they obey the Forsaken but I don't think he is referring to them either...his rule is always secure amongst DFs ==> out

 

So that leaves

Shara

LoM

Seanchan

Three places we have VERY little info on...I am going to go bold and guess he is some sort of Seanchan noblity or already Emperor and that Rand will fight him on his own terf in Towers of Midnight (I mean even the title is screaming THE ACT WILL BE IN SEANDAR!!!) xD

Still my guess is as good as any....for all we know he could be Bela...

[Eht Slat Meit]

So that leaves

Shara

LoM

Seanchan

Three places we have VERY little info on...I am going to go bold and guess he is some sort of Seanchan noblity or already Emperor and that Rand will fight him on his own terf in Towers of Midnight (I mean even the title is screaming THE ACT WILL BE IN SEANDAR!!!) xD

Still my guess is as good as any....for all we know he could be Bela...

 

Seanchan is out - that's verified to be Semirhage's turf in the alliance with Demandred and Mesaana, as the Black Ajah/White Tower is Mesaana's turf. You're also missing King Rhoedran-Murandy as a possibility.

[Bastor]

Even if the BA is removed I think Seanchan should stay.....you yourself say that they had an Alliance.

Semirhage was in charge of the "return" and "corrupting" it while Demi was taking places of power in Seandar....still just suspicions...

Murandy is nice..we have little knowledge of what is going on in there xD

[Eht Slat Meit]

Murandy is nice..we have little knowledge of what is going on in there xD

 

Actually, you'd be surprised. Murandy gets a -lot- of minor references in the books that someone collected here:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/geography/murandy/index.html

 

That's not even counting all the smaller offhand comments made by characters about the goings on in Murandy.

[Crael123]

Fain and Elida are both from Murandy..... must be an evil place

[JakeBarnes]

Demandred wouldn't have been in Seanchan.  Semirhage herself killed the Empress and the royal family to turn the empire to chaos.

[Sentinel78]

Semirhage herself killed the Empress and the royal family to turn the empire to chaos.

 

Semirhage certainly had detailed knowledge of the assassination of the Empress, but nothing she said explicitly indicated she had a hand in it, or performed the deed herself.  Semirhage said 50 rebel factions were contending for the throne in Seanchan, and that Seandar was in the hands of looters.  Again, nothing says this rebellion occurred subsequent to the Empress's assassination.  If the rebellion occurred first, she could have been killed by any of these factions during a power coup.

 

I'm not saying Semirhage didn't do it, I'm just saying we don't know for sure. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Crael123]

Semirhage herself killed the Empress and the royal family to turn the empire to chaos.

 

Semirhage certainly had detailed knowledge of the assassination of the Empress, but nothing she said explicitly indicated she had a hand in it, or performed the deed herself.  Semirhage said 50 rebel factions were contending for the throne in Seanchan, and that Seandar was in the hands of looters.  Again, nothing says this rebellion occurred subsequent to the Empress's assassination.  If the rebellion occurred first, she could have been killed by any of these factions during a power coup.

 

I'm not saying Semirhage didn't do it, I'm just saying we don't know for sure. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

No i am pretty sure she told Suroth she did it herself. or at least implied heavily

[WolfTwins]

Maybe You all are right, he could have proxies (or be)in Borderlands, in Shara, in Seanchan, in Murandy, in LoM, between Aiels, Borderlanders and Seanchans.

I don't know why 'the chaos of Seanchan empire' is such a big problem. I don't recall how Sammael ruled in Illian, Demandred is not like Sammael, but I don't think that DO and the Forsaken cares about law and order or people happyness.

'Divide et impera' is allways a good ruling method.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I don't know why 'the chaos of Seanchan empire' is such a big problem. I don't recall how Sammael ruled in Illian, Demandred is not like Sammael, but I don't think that DO and the Forsaken cares about law and order or people happyness.

'Divide et impera' is allways a good ruling method.

 

It's a problem because of The Return. With Suroth (DF) in charge of the Return, and the supreme ruling body off on another continent in complete chaos, this basically gives Semirhage complete control of the Seanchan armies. Or at least the only parts of it that matter to the Last Battle.

[WolfTwins]

With Suroth (DF) in charge of the Return, and the supreme ruling body off on another continent in complete chaos, this basically gives Semirhage complete control of the Seanchan armies. Or at least the only parts of it that matter to the Last Battle.

I'll be a smart 455, but Suroth is no more in charge and Semirhage is waiting for her rebirth, so...

Seanchan in the LB..., I'm floating in the air, I suppose is something analogous to KC...

Still, chaos is good for DO, the Forsaken and DF, when is no control armies could be easier formed and gathered. Some of Seanchan generals could be easely DF (we'll need a 'Fain sense'), but we'll acquaint that at the beginnig of the LB.

  I think that we must consider the Demandred armies not a Demandred army. It's said that some people will not know for what or whom they are fighting.

[Crael123]

I think it would be really ironic if demandred was King Roedran, who used the Band (created by Mat) to consolidate and unite his kingdom and the Band is supposed to be FIGHTING the Shadow not helping it

[Nethran Thaimal]

Hi.  There's sooo much to read that I haven't gotten to it all, so I'm not sure if this has been brought up ever.  The person everyone assumes is Taim has never, as far as I can tell, said he was Mazrim Taim.  Couldn't find anywhere he admitted to the name.  I could be wrong, but on my most recent read-through I tried to pay special attention just to be sure.

 

:)  That's all I have to add atm.

[thewalrus777]

I think it would be really ironic if demandred was King Roedran, who used the Band (created by Mat) to consolidate and unite his kingdom and the Band is supposed to be FIGHTING the Shadow not helping it

 

I am firmly behind this theory, as we've yet to meet the King of Murandy. And as it was stated by RJ in his KoD tour, we'd not yet met the alter ego of Demi. And if my assumption is correct, we still haven't. Demandred only stated that his rule was secure and that he gathered for war. I take the use of rule to be having control of a nation. And gathering for war, meaning he was consolidating his armies, ala Mat and the Band.

 

I don't think he is with the Borderlanders. Why? Tenobia has wanted to meet the DR ever since Bashere swore allegiance to him. Not to mention the other Borderland rulers need to meet with the DR, to tie the North to the East. I would imagine Demi knows the Prophecies of the Dragon. Why would he willingly help fulfill a DR prophecy. He HATES the DR with every fiber of his being.

 

 

Just an opinion.

[mossman87]

I think it would be really ironic if demandred was King Roedran, who used the Band (created by Mat) to consolidate and unite his kingdom and the Band is supposed to be FIGHTING the Shadow not helping it

 

I am firmly behind this theory, as we've yet to meet the King of Murandy. And as it was stated by RJ in his KoD tour, we'd not yet met the alter ego of Demi. And if my assumption is correct, we still haven't. Demandred only stated that his rule was secure and that he gathered for war. I take the use of rule to be having control of a nation. And gathering for war, meaning he was consolidating his armies, ala Mat and the Band.

 

I don't think he is with the Borderlanders. Why? Tenobia has wanted to meet the DR ever since Bashere swore allegiance to him. Not to mention the other Borderland rulers need to meet with the DR, to tie the North to the East. I would imagine Demi knows the Prophecies of the Dragon. Why would he willingly help fulfill a DR prophecy. He HATES the DR with every fiber of his being.

 

 

Just an opinion.

 

Well Be'lal helped Rand fulfill prophecy and grab Callandor, and I'm sure there's more examples.

[thewalrus777]

I think it would be really ironic if demandred was King Roedran, who used the Band (created by Mat) to consolidate and unite his kingdom and the Band is supposed to be FIGHTING the Shadow not helping it

 

I am firmly behind this theory, as we've yet to meet the King of Murandy. And as it was stated by RJ in his KoD tour, we'd not yet met the alter ego of Demi. And if my assumption is correct, we still haven't. Demandred only stated that his rule was secure and that he gathered for war. I take the use of rule to be having control of a nation. And gathering for war, meaning he was consolidating his armies, ala Mat and the Band.

 

I don't think he is with the Borderlanders. Why? Tenobia has wanted to meet the DR ever since Bashere swore allegiance to him. Not to mention the other Borderland rulers need to meet with the DR, to tie the North to the East. I would imagine Demi knows the Prophecies of the Dragon. Why would he willingly help fulfill a DR prophecy. He HATES the DR with every fiber of his being.

 

 

Just an opinion.

 

Well Be'lal helped Rand fulfill prophecy and grab Callandor, and I'm sure there's more examples.

 

 

He only did that to take Callandor for himself. An act of greed and envy. Which describes Be'lal perfectly. However there is nothing to gain from Demandred being with the Borderlanders. And Graendal had said she also had spies with BLer's and she would definitely know if he was with them. She also said that Demandred liked leading his own army. He really wouldn't have that with the BLer's. He would also be playing a lesser role than what he would deem acceptable for himself. Demandred sees himself second to no one save the DO.

 

Murandy is a very logical choice. We haven't met the King yet. It's very strategically placed to strike at Rand's armies or at Andor for that matter. The armies were just consolidated by Mat and The Band. Not a lot of attention paid to Murandy. Yeah there are quotes from the book that mentions some of the things going on in Murandy, but they all seem just like sidenotes. It would give him an absolute and SECURE rule.

 

Like someone posted earlier, where better to hide from your enemy than next door. I'm pretty sure Demandred wants to be as close to Rand as possible, but far enough away he won't get found out. Murandy just seems a perfect fit.