The State of the Light and Dark Post tGS. (Full Spoilers)

[kari-no-sugata]

The forces of Light certainly managed to turn a corner in tGS. However, without a plan (any plan) to defeat the Dark One, there's still a long way to go.

 

Talking of which, I had one of those "it's obvious when you think about it" type ideas on how to re-seal the Dark One's prison properly (or at least, do much better than last time). I was wondering, is there a good (and up to date) collection of ideas on how to re-seal the Dark One around? (I couldn't find one yet) I thought I'd check to see if such an idea hasn't been proposed already.

[Owners.Inc]

Turn a corner? More like they went from strong position, to an almost unbeatable one.

[Sharaman]

A famine will affect the forces of the Shadow too. Can't feed soldiers on prayers to the DO. The Trollocs also were not allowed to hunt deep into the borderlands since the beginning of LoC, and whatever people are captured are being used to make thakan'dar swords. Everyone is going to starve.

 

Rand is still running about because the forces of the Shadow are so inept. All of their plans have failed despite Rand's woolheadedness.

 

Surely you can eat a captured Borderlanders once the sword has been tempered? The logistics of feeding zillions of trollocs has always been a mystery though.

[randfandom]

if i were a darkfriend in randland i would seriously consider jumping ship. since book 1 we have seen,

 

the corruption of rand al thor end.

the purging of the black ajah

...

where is the massive smack down from shaitan and his minions? at this rate the final battle will be a rout of epic proportions.

 

damn they actually put more of a fight in the war of power against the LTT and his forces.

 

i will say one thing that helped the shadow. rand in his infinite wisdom destroyed the most powerful sangreal. i guess he felt sorry for shaitan. har har

 

Light is winning you say? Okay let's see:

 

- No new crops coming on.

- Food spoiling at a massive rate.

- Millions of people are starving.

- Bubbles of evil becoming norm rather than exception.

- Constant darkness - both depressing, ruining crops and helping trollocs (who are better fighting in the dark).

- Trollocs produced by the millions - they certainly have plenty food available...

- Dragon may have healed mentally, but still very sick physically and having increasing trouble with grabbing the source.

- Plenty traitors and darkfriends we don't even know about.

- No idea yet how to reseal the Dark One.

- Seanchan still enemies splitting the forces of light further.

- Most Black Ajah escaped - likely hooking up with the darkfriend Ashaman.

- Rand's temperament in the last book was such that I would not be surprised if some of his more opportunistic allies will abandon him.

 

I think the light side are in pretty poor shape, despite the few victories.

 

As for destroying the CK - Rand did the right thing. Too powerful and dangerous. What it fell to the hands of the Foesaken or Taim?

 

[Sestos]

Going out on a leap but:

 

The sword is crystal and apparently must be used in a circle with females.

 

The books states that they rushed in, and sealed the bore as best they knew how, but for it to work they had to "touch" the Dark One to seal him in, thus the taint, and no women would help so they were forced to use males.

 

Perhaps the sword is flawed in that it requires females, ie maybe the flaw is that it forces males to work with females or females with the males to seal the Dark One. The crystal or nature of the sword serves as the buffer and absorbs the "taint" when used to tough the Dark One.

[coteaz]

yeah that is what i was thinking, the flaw isn't really a flaw, it just creates a situation where male and females have to work together, and the flaw will nullify the DO's power if he tries to taint the OP. Or at least make it impossible for him to do so.

[elmis]

The Light was losing pre-tGS, post-tGS they are more even.

 

The armies doesn't really matter, except for giving us readers some action sequences - the Last Battle is Rand vs. the DO. No idea how that is going down - back before he lost his hand, I always figured it would be written like the fight in the Great Hunt.

 

Rand with Callandor glowing white against SH with some black blade.

 

Hard to do that, with just one hand though. :)

[Mr Ares]

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

 

And of course, what else has happened since the start? Hundreds of thousands have died in many, brutal civil wars, or of starvation. Reality is starting to break apart. The dead are walking. And the good guys still don't know how to win. The Light is still divided and at war with itself.

 

A famine will affect the forces of the Shadow too. Can't feed soldiers on prayers to the DO. The Trollocs also were not allowed to hunt deep into the borderlands since the beginning of LoC, and whatever people are captured are being used to make thakan'dar swords. Everyone is going to starve.

Given the suspected numbers of Trollocs, it's doubtful that they could ever have been fed through Borderland raids. They would appear to be more of a dietary supplement, with the bulk of their food coming from the enormous, thriving ecosystem they inhabit: the Blight.

 

yeah that is what i was thinking, the flaw isn't really a flaw, it just creates a situation where male and females have to work together, and the flaw will nullify the DO's power if he tries to taint the OP. Or at least make it impossible for him to do so.

According to RJ, it's a flaw.

[Owners.Inc]

if i were a darkfriend in randland i would seriously consider jumping ship. since book 1 we have seen,

 

the corruption of rand al thor end.

the purging of the black ajah

...

where is the massive smack down from shaitan and his minions? at this rate the final battle will be a rout of epic proportions.

 

damn they actually put more of a fight in the war of power against the LTT and his forces.

 

i will say one thing that helped the shadow. rand in his infinite wisdom destroyed the most powerful sangreal. i guess he felt sorry for shaitan. har har

 

Light is winning you say? Okay let's see:

 

- No new crops coming on.

- Food spoiling at a massive rate.

- Millions of people are starving.

- Bubbles of evil becoming norm rather than exception.

- Constant darkness - both depressing, ruining crops and helping trollocs (who are better fighting in the dark).

- Trollocs produced by the millions - they certainly have plenty food available...

- Dragon may have healed mentally, but still very sick physically and having increasing trouble with grabbing the source.

- Plenty traitors and darkfriends we don't even know about.

- No idea yet how to reseal the Dark One.

- Seanchan still enemies splitting the forces of light further.

- Most Black Ajah escaped - likely hooking up with the darkfriend Ashaman.

- Rand's temperament in the last book was such that I would not be surprised if some of his more opportunistic allies will abandon him.

 

I think the light side are in pretty poor shape, despite the few victories.

 

As for destroying the CK - Rand did the right thing. Too powerful and dangerous. What it fell to the hands of the Foesaken or Taim?

 

 

i don't what to turn this into another Do underdog thread, but it is something i feel strongly about.

 

Points 1. and 2. go together I believe. BS has recently indicated that, in reference to the prophecy of the Dragon being linked to the land, that the food spoilage may let up a little after Rand's sanity returns to him. I know that doesn't really counter your argument very well especially since I'm not sure I'm understanding Bs's answer right, but even other wise, if you think about it, the Borderlanders, Aiel and independent Saldaens seem to be getting on fine. Yes, Arad Doman is doomed, but it had little to offer Rand anyway except Ituralde anyway. With him helping defend the Blight, Arad Doman can literally rot and it would not matter militarily. You also seem to neglect that the last battle might not be so far away. It might happen in a month's time. Yes, if ALL the food in the WORLD goes spoilt at once right now, Rand is in deep trouble. But ask yourself, could that really happen? What kind of story would that make from an author's and reader's POV? A build up to a battle but the hero starves before fighting his evil enemy? Yes, I know I'm looking at this from an outside POV, and the characters could not be thinking this, but despite that, the intention was to create a sense of struggle and that cannot happen unless we are convinced that Rand might not be able to defeat the DO.

 

I'm a little skeptical about the millions starving bit. I'm not sure about the population of Randland, but its not more than 10 million I believe. This is not my guess btw, but something I'm taking from another TGS thread based on the number of channelers available to each culture. With the largely irrelevant exception of arad doman, food spoilage has been widely documented and the world is arguably on the brink of starvation, but it is not starving yet. The people in the seanchan lands seem content enough as Rand notes, and as mentioned above, the Aiel, Borderlanders and other seem well enough. I mention these since they are likely to be the main fighting infantry forces at TG.

 

The bubbles of evil are increasing in frequency yes, but even at their most vicious, they've only engulfed a town of harmless farmers. Nothing to say that the can't take over Rand's whole army, but it seems unlikely. If the DO could've, he would've. In most cases, the bubbles take out one person or a small group at a time. Unless you have several such bubbles a day, the Light should have plenty soldiers remaining to put up a show at TG.

 

I don't see the constant darkness as a such a major advantage to the trollocs. its not pitch black - there's enough light for both sides to see in. and the depression is more likely due to many other things than the weather. Maybe you feel this is a major point, but I don't really agree.

 

Skipping ahead a little, I don't think most of the Ba escaped. In fact, I think egwene got most of them and some escaped. Not few, but not very many. In any case, the unclosetting of the BA is counterbalanced more than equally by the unification of the WT. Whatever mischief the BA could get up to, (and they've not been too effective so far), it cannot undermine the fact that a united tower is a huge blow to the DO. Its essentially undone the DO's plan since TSR.

 

When you talk of Rand's allies, who did you have in mind? The only one Rand really takes a dump on in this book is Tam, Rhuarc, Bael and Cadsuane. None of these are opportunistic. Even Dobraine, a Cairhienin, is steadfast in his loyalty to Rand. Those who seem unsure of Rand's mind are likely to be appeased by his new outlook on life. Similarly, the Seanchan are more likely to come together with a Dragon who does not appear so scary and cruel. The grouping of the Seanchan and Rand would effectively be the DO's forces' death sentence.

 

Yes, Rand does not know how to seal the bore - that is very much in the DO's favour. After all we can't win a fight if contact with the enemy isn't allowed right? Bear in mind though, that Rand presumably now has access to most/all of LTT's memories and knows more about sealing the bore than anyone.

 

 

Lastly, the Trollocs. We are told there are thousands upon thousands of Trollocs in the Blight. But plenty of food? The Blight has been quiet for months - not even raids - so where is this food coming from?

[Sentinel78]

Lastly, the Trollocs. We are told there are thousands upon thousands of Trollocs in the Blight. But plenty of food? The Blight has been quiet for months - not even raids - so where is this food coming from?

 

I have a feeling this is just something we're just supposed to accept... I doubt there are going to be any revelations regarding food processing plants at the Blight, or bringing food in from other worlds via portal stones.

[Lambada]

Lastly, the Trollocs. We are told there are thousands upon thousands of Trollocs in the Blight. But plenty of food? The Blight has been quiet for months - not even raids - so where is this food coming from?

 

I have a feeling this is just something we're just supposed to accept... I doubt there are going to be any revelations regarding food processing plants at the Blight, or bringing food in from other worlds via portal stones.

Didn't Moridin mention at one point about developing a strain of Blight resistant crops?

[Bob T Dwarf]

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

 

Eamon Valda was not a great captain.  That was Pedron Niall.  Galad figures to be at least as good a general as Valda.  At worst it's a step laterally.

[Muad Cheade]

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

 

Eamon Valda was not a great captain.  That was Pedron Niall.  Galad figures to be at least as good a general as Valda.  At worst it's a step laterally.

 

He was referencing Niall (as I did before). Galad might be a good commander (I still can't believe he started a war over Elayne and Nynaeve) but he still has to deal with their reputation and the fact the Children are split in two, among other things.

[sheikh chilli]

i will have a go at you muad, ares style :)

 

We don't know that. In my view, it just shows that Rand knows what his purpose is, why he is doing it, and how he is supposed to do it (without the CK).

 

 

c'mon muad. dark rand laughed true and pure. unless he has been diagnosed as a certified schizo the man has turned around a corner. All that plotting by shaitan has been for nought. And i predict when he sees moriaine that laughter will turn into tears. Tears of happiness. fulfilling min's viewing of tears and happiness.

 

result: dark one 0. Light 1

 

 

That helped yet at the same time, revealing the existence of the Black Ajah discredits the Aes Sedai.

 

it's the other way around actually. pretending there was no black ajah greatly damaged the tower and left it open to alviarin and co. Now since they acknowledged it there are all for the better. black ajah purged and ass has been kicked.

 

result dark 0. light 1

 

 

 

That is true but not everything is sunshine and rainbows. The Aes Sedai institution is hasn't been the most stable one recently, but there is promise. Don't forget that there is a Forsaken hidden in her midst.

 

 

 

the reunification of the white tower is body blow to the shadow. no two ways about it. it's alot more stable since siuan sanche was deposed. you have to remember shaitan wanted a broken tower. a united tower is no no for the darkies.

 

 

result dark one 0 light 1

 

This is irrelevant. The Forsaken are just pawns to Moridin and the Dark One. You don't care if your tools get damaged as long as your job gets finished.

 

what job?

 

 

Yes. Which helps Taim's men as much as it does Rand and Logain's.

 

muad muad muad. second time you got confused. the cleansing of saidin is actually to the benefit of the light and logains men. you see if saidin was still tainted, taim's men will get special protection from madness from the dark one. not so for logains men. saidin's cleansing means they are on alevel playing field. and also stops the dragon reborn from going crazy too.. oh and it prevents a ruined world from facing tarmon gaidon as a result of crazy ashaman

 

 

result dark one 0 light 1

 

Who are as likely to attack each other as the Shadow. The Seanchan vs. Rand, Seanchan vs. the White Tower, Seanchan vs. virtually everyone else, Rand vs. the Borderlanders, Black Tower vs. White Tower (possibly), White Tower vs. Rand (Rand thinks that is true). Meanwhile, the Shadow has hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of Shadowspawn about to invade

 

the seanchan will be too busy licking their wounds from the thrashing they received from super sedai egwene. you bringing what ifs and probabilities.

 

i see illian under the light. andor and cairhein under the light. i see the two rivers under the light. i see tar valon under the light. i see tear under the light. i see the combined might of the aiel, the wise ones, the athan miere, i see the mighty kin. i see the united aes sedai. i see the boderlanders, i see the thousands of armies under these countries.

 

the light has enough firepower. and whats even more shocking and pathetic for the shadow is that there is no mighty forsaken generals to comman their rag tag bunch from the blight like the war of power. they have to make with their dreadlords.

 

 

most of the male forsaken are dead and finished. what a waste. a complete waste of resources. i guess they have to stick to using messana lol, arangar, moggy and cyndanae as generals.

 

 

Yet far from each other instead of being close even when the Pattern is trying to force them back together (through the visions). All three are going through personal problems too

 

 

personal problems can be fixed by the living. dead tavern can't.

 

result dark one 0 light 1

 

They were under a confident general in Pedron Niall. They were also under one at Falme yet they were still decimated by the Seanchan

 

the whyitecloaks are under galad this time and unlike his predessors he's abit more right in the head. his meeting wi9th perrin means the whitecloaks will be a fighting force for the light in the right direction. instead of hunting the seanchan like last time and despising the aes sedai. they will hunt trollocs and fades.

 

result dark one 0 light 1

 

 

Yeah, except for the channelers in the Black Tower are living weapons unlike the Aes Sedai. And this time, the DarkFriends are lead by a cruel, cunning and very dangerous leader (Taim) who will be aware of the attempted purging

 

 

this is irrelevant. so needless. the black tower will be purged one way or another. elaida's foretelling has seen to it. this means the hidden cancer of the shadow within the black tower will be exposed. much like the black ajah in the white tower. there will be massive casualties. but in the end this purging will be beneficial to the light because it will expose taim and co to the light.

 

 

just like how alviarin and co were exposed in the white tower. tarmon gaidon will face a united aes sedai and a united ashaman.

 

 

result. dark one 0 light 1.

 

 

Too speculative. She might not even be alive by the time Mat leaves. Min's viewing said Rand would fail without the help of a woman dead, not that that woman would be there to give it

min's viewings has seen to moraine being alive and being rescued. and yo know min is never wrong. deep down muad you know that moraine will be rescued and that meeting with rand will happen sooner or later.

 

 

result dark one 0 light 1

 

Actally, the Dark One is preserving his own forces while the forces of the Light fight and weaken each other.

 

what forces? his black ajah?lol. his broken forsaken? in the knife of dreams 100,000 of his minions were vaporised by a bunch of channellers in a matter of minutes. lol

some forces he's preserving

 

That was when the population levels, technology, number of well-trained channelers was significantly greater. The Shadow is making due with what they have and they are still winning

 

in the war of power, the shadow was winning because they had massive armies with competent forsaken generals at their helm. they were beating the light so bad it lead to the final desperation act from LTT and the hundred companions. When tarmon gaidon comes rand will have his ashaman but shaitan will have no generals to command his armies. he will have to do with dread lords and taim. if he does not get killed by logain anyway in the inevitable purging of the dark friends in the BT

 

 

There are other powerful ones as Lanfear spoke of them in TSR

 

there might be but as of now the destruction of the kal by rand for firvolous reasons such 'OMFG it's too powerful ( it was not too powerful when it was used to cleanse saidin eh) to be used means shaitan can give the comman for the fades to pour out of the blight without his troops getting smoked the moment they take the first step.

 

the destruction of the kal means the shadow armies do have a fighting chance at tarmon gaidon. they don't have to worry about rand, logain or narishma smashing them like twigs from the comforts of their home.

 

 

result dark one 1 light 0. Hooray at last a point for the dark one. Only this point has been accomplished via the dragon reborn and not something the dark one or his minions ever accomplised. sad sad.

[richnewton82]

.

[Blademaster Tayos]

there might be but as of now the destruction of the kal by rand for firvolous reasons such 'OMFG it's too powerful ( it was not too powerful when it was used to cleanse saidin eh) to be used means shaitan can give the comman for the fades to pour out of the blight without his troops getting smoked the moment they take the first step.

 

I'd hardly say that it was destroyed for frivolous reasons considering that even Rand admitted that the power was starting to get to him.  In fact this is actually a win for the light as it leaves the strongest remaining male Sa'angreal (callandor) still in possession of the light, as well as removing the last remaining item that could melt continents, thereby preventing the insane men (whether it be Morindin, LTT, or Rand) from doing so.

[TheAngryDruid]

if i were a darkfriend in randland i would seriously consider jumping ship. since book 1 we have seen,

 

the corruption of rand al thor end.

the purging of the black ajah

...

where is the massive smack down from shaitan and his minions? at this rate the final battle will be a rout of epic proportions.

 

damn they actually put more of a fight in the war of power against the LTT and his forces.

 

i will say one thing that helped the shadow. rand in his infinite wisdom destroyed the most powerful sangreal. i guess he felt sorry for shaitan. har har

 

Light is winning you say? Okay let's see:

 

- No new crops coming on.

- Food spoiling at a massive rate.

- Millions of people are starving.

- Bubbles of evil becoming norm rather than exception.

- Constant darkness - both depressing, ruining crops and helping trollocs (who are better fighting in the dark).

- Trollocs produced by the millions - they certainly have plenty food available...

- Dragon may have healed mentally, but still very sick physically and having increasing trouble with grabbing the source.

- Plenty traitors and darkfriends we don't even know about.

- No idea yet how to reseal the Dark One.

- Seanchan still enemies splitting the forces of light further.

- Most Black Ajah escaped - likely hooking up with the darkfriend Ashaman.

- Rand's temperament in the last book was such that I would not be surprised if some of his more opportunistic allies will abandon him.

 

I think the light side are in pretty poor shape, despite the few victories.

 

As for destroying the CK - Rand did the right thing. Too powerful and dangerous. What it fell to the hands of the Foesaken or Taim?

 

 

i don't what to turn this into another Do underdog thread, but it is something i feel strongly about.

 

 

Skipping ahead a little, I don't think most of the Ba escaped. In fact, I think egwene got most of them and some escaped. Not few, but not very many. In any case, the unclosetting of the BA is counterbalanced more than equally by the unification of the WT. Whatever mischief the BA could get up to, (and they've not been too effective so far), it cannot undermine the fact that a united tower is a huge blow to the DO. Its essentially undone the DO's plan since TSR.

 

 

While I generally agree that the Light made strides in TGS (though still might be a bit behind), I don't think the facts support the idea that Egwene got most of them.

 

For the record, according to Verin the Black...

 

1) Numbered just over 200 + Accepted & Novices.

 

a) 21 Blues + 28 Browns + 30 Grays + 38 Greens + 17 Whites + 21 Yellows + 48 Reds = 203.

b) Plus names of Accepted & Novices as well. (A Visist from Verin Sedai, TGS p. 607).

c) Including the following Sitters/Keepers:

 

i) Tower: Alviarin (former Keeper, White), Talene (Green), Duhara (Red), Velina (White), Sedore (Yellow), Delana (Gray).

ii) Rebels: Sheriam (Keeper, Blue), Delana (Gray), Moira (Blue).

 

2) Splits among the Tower, Rebels, and unaligned.

 

a) Rebels: about 70. (TGS, Sealed to the Flame, p. 682). Over fifty executed (The Tower Stands, p. 703). Nearly 20 escapted (p. 704).

b) Tower: a majority of the Blacks (some 60) escaped. Say 100 total.

c) Unaligned: say around 30 (I'm just guessing, but that gives us 200).  They would all be free.

 

So, at a minimum, we'd have close to 20 Black at large from the rebels, around 60 from the Tower, and at least 10 unaligned (if the 60 was a bare majority of the Tower's Blacks) but possibly closer to 30 unaligned.

 

That's between 80-110 free BA. Out of 203.

 

 

 

[coteaz]

I'm a little skeptical about the millions starving bit. I'm not sure about the population of Randland, but its not more than 10 million I believe.

 

There are over 100 million in randland, 10 million is just the capital cities.

[Owners.Inc]

100 million? Where did you get that from? Each of these major cities are much smaller than major cities today, and even today a good many cities do not have 10 million people in them. Caemlyn for instance based on attached maps is really not that big. 10 million per large cities is simply too large. That may have been true in the AOL, but its been mentioned that the population has been dropping steadily since then, Ingtar mentions this - so I really doubt 100 million.

[coteaz]

No, 10 million for all the capital cities together. the other 90 million would be from all the villages, towns and cities in between those capitals. randland is the size of europe and at the stage in history comparable to WOT time, Europe had 250-350 million, so its not a stretch to assume that randland has 100 million.

[Sentinel78]

I swear I've heard the 100 million number before... either in an RJ interview or maybe the WOT companion book...

[Mr Ares]

Yes, I know I'm looking at this from an outside POV, and the characters could not be thinking this, but despite that, the intention was to create a sense of struggle and that cannot happen unless we are convinced that Rand might not be able to defeat the DO.

I don't think that can really happen. The deck is really stacked against you in giving the impression that the good guys might not win, no matter how bad it looks, because we're used to the good guys triumphing against seemingly impossible odds. RJ could probably have the Shadow kill Rand, butcher half the Light's armies, have millions starve to death, and we'll still be expecting Mat and Perrin to lead the good guys to glorious victory, right up until the prison Breaks open and Shai'tan is freed, annihilating the world in the process. Given that giving the impression that the Light might not win is virtually impossible, then what?

 

Similarly, the Seanchan are more likely to come together with a Dragon who does not appear so scary and cruel. The grouping of the Seanchan and Rand would effectively be the DO's forces' death sentence.

While the union of the Seanchan and Rand would be a big blow to the Shadow, the Seanchan are not yet ready to come together with Rand, new sunny outlook on his part or no. Tuon felt she was being generous in making the Dragon an equal of the Daughter of the Nine Moons. As Empress, she is the most important person in the world. She has no equals, no betters. Rand will kneel. She is convinced of that. It has to happen, to her way of thinking. So conflict between Rand and the Seanchan is not finished.

 

Lastly, the Trollocs. We are told there are thousands upon thousands of Trollocs in the Blight. But plenty of food? The Blight has been quiet for months - not even raids - so where is this food coming from?

The Blight. Given the size of raids, it is doubtful they were ever providing the bulk of the food for Trollocs. I don't think they could have taken enough people. The Blight is teeming with life, so there is plenty for the Trollocs to eat there. No more raids might mean a shortage of delicious humans, but not a shortage of food in general.

 

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

Eamon Valda was not a great captain. That was Pedron Niall. Galad figures to be at least as good a general as Valda.  At worst it's a step laterally.

That's funny, I could have sworn that Pedron Niall used to head the Children of the Light. So they went from a great captain in Niall, to merely competent...

 

i will have a go at you muad, ares style :)

Ares style can be hazardous to your health, and should not be attempted by amateurs. It requires proper training. Health and Safety would have a field day if they saw you trying it without the roper precautions being taken. Think of the children, won't somebody please think of the children! As it is, I like the way the Light was only able to score one goal throughout, and yet the final result is still 1-0 to the Shadow. And you still fail to grasp that the size of armies or brute strength in the Power will not determine victory. They are a distraction.

 

randland is the size of europe and at the stage in history comparable to WOT time, Europe had 250-350 million, so its not a stretch to assume that randland has 100 million.

The westlands are actually substantially larger than Europe - the area is about twice the size, (very) roughly. Even given the population decline, there are quite a lot of people out there.

[Bob T Dwarf]

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

Eamon Valda was not a great captain. That was Pedron Niall. Galad figures to be at least as good a general as Valda.  At worst it's a step laterally.

That's funny, I could have sworn that Pedron Niall used to head the Children of the Light. So they went from a great captain in Niall, to merely competent...

 

Pedron Niall has been dead for most of the series.  So, how does Galad killing Valda take them from a "great captain" to someone merely competent?

[Mr Ares]

the whitecloaks under a competent general this time

Yes, from one of the Great Captains to merely competent - what a step up!

Eamon Valda was not a great captain. That was Pedron Niall. Galad figures to be at least as good a general as Valda.  At worst it's a step laterally.

That's funny, I could have sworn that Pedron Niall used to head the Children of the Light. So they went from a great captain in Niall, to merely competent...

Pedron Niall has been dead for most of the series.  So, how does Galad killing Valda take them from a "great captain" to someone merely competent?

Who said anything about killing Valda? I was talking about Niall.

[coteaz]

I swear I've heard the 100 million number before... either in an RJ interview or maybe the WOT companion book...

 

Yeah i think it was a RJ quote that i heard it from, but i remember one from him that stated that tar valon has 700,000 people and thats just one capital city, there are 15 or so. Easily 10 million total, maybe more. Then there are towns and villages between all of these cities that will easily number 100 million maybe more, just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they are not there.