The One Power (Full Book Spoilers)--No Balefire!

[Luckers]

It just really didn't feel like it, did it? Especially when Fortuona was directly thinking about the inovative aspects of the planned attack on the Tower.

[Nightstrike]

Maybe this is one of the rare occasions when the RJ quote is wrong for some reason. I know it happened once that he said something that wasn't correct according to his own notes. Something about Elaida, I think. He had such enormous amounts of notes (according to BS), so it wouldn't be strange if he didn't have everything in his head.

[b3arz3rg3r]

What's with Rand managing not to kill himself in VoG? Shouldn't he have crossed his limits and get killed by saidin in the end or atleast burned himself out?

 

[Luckers]

Sa'angreal (aside from Callandor) contain a buffer that prevents this from occuring. Remember the Choedan Kal was not destroyed by drawing too much, it was destroyed because Rand turned it's power back upon it.

[karehiro]

Two things I thought were real interesting:

 

1.  Lews Therin knowing how to unravel Compulsion, from a saidar perspective, to the point that he's able to teach Nynaeve what to do (though it was her own talent and dexterity that actually allowed her to unravel Graendal's weaves).  This just speaks to the depth of knowledge that the Dragon had over the aspects of the Power.  Even though as Rand admits himself, he's no good at Healing, Lews Therin still knows how to navigate all challenges and it seems as if he has an answer for everything related to the Power including any type of challenge he goes up against.  Lews Therin even knew of how to create that construct with Callandor to hunt down all Shadow-spawn within the Stone of Tear, something which Moiraine thought was flat out impossible to do (and she factored in the power of sa'angreal)

 

Which brings me to the second thing which relates to that:

 

2. The Traveling trick.  Not only does the Dragon know of all these weaves that are being rediscovered, but he's also performing them in a more unique, more effective, more clever ways.  Just like with the Deathgates he created which put a more deadly spin on the gateways, or now with this Traveling trick which helps him learn the land in order to create a Traveling Gateway in a fraction of the time it would normally take for others.  It was amusing and interesting to see Nynaeve remark on it and take note of it as well.

 

Truly, the Dragon must be the best channeler ever with the myriad of skills, strengths, and tricks he's displayed, not to mention the absolute breadth of knowledge.  Just think about it: he pretty much knows enough to instruct female channelers on aspects of the Power.  If Nynaeve continues to stick around him, she'll be pulling off more things other Aes Sedai never dreamed of.

[coteaz]

As to that construct that killed all the shadowspawn in the stone of tear, i wonder if with the choedan kal he could have done the same? destroyed all the shadowspawn in the world perhaps?

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

 

Fire does not naturally exist in the air. Without the power the heat would dissipate in seconds--as happens to the fireball Cyndane used against Alivia.

 

Then how do the fireballs the Aes Sedai throw last in the air?  Are you saying that for every fireball there must be a weave?  Then a normal Aes Sedai would only be able to sustain three fireballs at once when fighting, and do nothing else.  But Moiraine manages to call down lightning at the same time, and rend the earth.  Or are you saying that the weave sustains every fireball that is created from it?

 

The weave sustains the fireball, and goes with it. And yes, each fireball is seemingly a distinct weave. Moiraine was dividing her flows.

 

Moiraine would have only been able to sustain 4 weaves max at that time.  But she would have been channeling more than that by your reasoning.

[Luckers]

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

 

Fire does not naturally exist in the air. Without the power the heat would dissipate in seconds--as happens to the fireball Cyndane used against Alivia.

 

Then how do the fireballs the Aes Sedai throw last in the air?  Are you saying that for every fireball there must be a weave?  Then a normal Aes Sedai would only be able to sustain three fireballs at once when fighting, and do nothing else.  But Moiraine manages to call down lightning at the same time, and rend the earth.  Or are you saying that the weave sustains every fireball that is created from it?

 

The weave sustains the fireball, and goes with it. And yes, each fireball is seemingly a distinct weave. Moiraine was dividing her flows.

 

Moiraine would have only been able to sustain 4 weaves max at that time.  But she would have been channeling more than that by your reasoning.

 

Would she--she was throwing fireballs. How long were they active for? On break lightning, the read on fireballs--four divisions, even three, supplies.

 

Irrespective from the Cyndane/Alivia fight we know each fireball was sustained by a weave--it is not my 'reasoning', it is cannon.

[WWWwombat]

cannon like an ion cannon?

[Sentinel78]

I've notice gateways are not being used to their potential.

 

For example, why are the Sea Folk shipping food to Arad Doman when they have traveling now.  Shipping is obsolete.  The only rationale I can think of is not wanting to give traveling to the Seanchan, but then two or three Ashaman could be used instead to probably get all the food Arad Doman needs, or just one Ashaman with a tied off gateway to somewhere that has food. 

 

Also, Grady tells Perrin he can only hold open a gateway for an hour so he can't move the whole army.  Whatever happened to tying off a gateway?

 

It seems like the convenience of gateways is not being exploited (e.g., you don't need to watch each Waygate in person, you just need gateways opened to each Waygate from one location and you monitor them like security cameras since Shadowspawn going through a waygate wouldn't be able to jump through the gateway outside of it, then you just report 'Trollocs coming through Waygate #67).  Similarly, you could have a thousand tied off gateways that essentially give you a canvas of the Blight in a bunch of different locations, using them like security cameras from a single location.  The fact that shadowspawn can't use gateways again minimizes any risk of leaving these open all over the place.

 

Anybody have any thoughts on this?  Is there some rule that a single channeler can only have one gateway open at any given time?  That would explain some of the above, but not Grady not being able to tie off his gateway.  Is that a 'talent', i.e., is tying off weaves not something every channeler can do?

[coteaz]

Based on the fool boxes that sammael uses to send the shaido all over the place, i would assume you can open multiple, but once you tie them off they only last for a few minutes. Example of this is rands death gates.

[EnderWarrior]

you cant tie of a gatway for long and grady is worn out form all the channeling he has been doing he wouldnt feel safe leaving a gateway tied off for that long of time

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Also, Grady tells Perrin he can only hold open a gateway for an hour so he can't move the whole army.  Whatever happened to tying off a gateway?

 

It seems like the convenience of gateways is not being exploited (e.g., you don't need to watch each Waygate in person, you just need gateways opened to each Waygate from one location and you monitor them like security cameras since Shadowspawn going through a waygate wouldn't be able to jump through the gateway outside of it, then you just report 'Trollocs coming through Waygate #67).  Similarly, you could have a thousand tied off gateways that essentially give you a canvas of the Blight in a bunch of different locations, using them like security cameras from a single location.  The fact that shadowspawn can't use gateways again minimizes any risk of leaving these open all over the place.

 

Tying a weave off is a trick that not everybody knows.  Many Aes Sedai do NOT know the trick of it.

 

Is there some rule that a single channeler can only have one gateway open at any given time?

 

A gateway requires a HUGE amount of strength to maintain, relative to most Aes Sedai.  Even so, I doubt Rand could weave many large gateways, especially when you consider that maintaining 2 weaves is more than twice as strenuous as holding just one, and holding 3 is more than twice as hard again, and so on.

[coteaz]

Actually alot of Aes Sedai know it, they tie of their wardings all the time. On that note, i wonder if we will see some new wardings coming up, like wardings to prevent traveling now that all armies in randland posses it?

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Actually alot of Aes Sedai know it, they tie of their wardings all the time. On that note, i wonder if we will see some new wardings coming up, like wardings to prevent traveling now that all armies in randland posses it?

 

Its mentioned that not many Aes Sedai know the trick of tying off a weave.

[Alternate34]

Several problems with tying off all those gateways for recon even if it were possible:

 

(1)  Shadowspawn are not the only thing to worry about.  If you have all of those gateways, you would have unwanted visitors all of the time.  A Forsaken could just channel through one of the gateways.  Another Forsaken could do the same from somewhere else.

 

(2)  The Shadow can see you and know your location immediately.

 

(3)  A mess up of the weaves can wreak havoc.

 

There are probably other problems as well.

[coteaz]

well the wonder girls know how to do it, if i remember correctly moiraine knows how to do it, as does siuan and verin, we could assume that cadsuane does, and at this stage all the wise ones would. All the Aes Sedai under cadsuane probably would aswell.

[bushleague]

For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread

 

Funny you should mention that...Where exactly did the Seanchan get those? I'm guessing they were originally from the Aes Sedai who ruled that continent originally but that also means the Seanchan are capable of duplicating ter'angreal (although I guess a'dams are already proof of that)

I wondered about that when I read about it. I saw some RJ quote that said Seanchan could only make one type of ter'angreal. The a'dam. They hadn't thought about making another. Does this mean they've made any effort, or did they already have some of those?

 

 

 

The numbers seem to deny the possibility of a stockpile of bloodknife rings. Would you be able to find the quote?

 

It may have seemed natural to you guys, but the very first thing I said when I read the chapter was "How do the Seanchan know other forms of Ter'angeral?  In fact I didn't even know they used the word ter'angeral.  The only one we've seen before is an a'dam, and they even gave that a different name. 

 

With what we see from Tuon and her journey with Mat, the Seanchan seemed to be afraid of and want to control everything with the power.  The scene with Tuon and the bloodknives made me wonder how she suddenly became so knowledgeable on objects of the power.  I don't think it's unrealistic, but it just threw me off a little.

[Muad Cheade]

Possibly then the rings of the bloodknives are a new discovery. It didn't feel that way in the book, but still... Weird.

 

Perhaps there is a limited quantity of them. There doesn't seem to be that many BloodKnives either (only five in the WT raid). Also, this would be the only time the Seanchan would not be able to recover them as this was the first time they were used in an external conflict (Seanchan vs the White Tower instead of Seanchan vs. Seanchan as most of the previous warfare on the Seanchan continent were civil wars and rebellions).

 

With what we see from Tuon and her journey with Mat, the Seanchan seemed to be afraid of and want to control everything with the power.  The scene with Tuon and the bloodknives made me wonder how she suddenly became so knowledgeable on objects of the power.  I don't think it's unrealistic, but it just threw me off a little.

 

That's to the contrary. The Seanchan willingly use the One Power. They just feel that marath'damane must be leashed. The Seanchan have been intertwined with channelers well before Luthair Paendrag arrived on the continent. Just look at the effectiveness of damane in battle. As long as the vileness of One Power is controlled, the Seanchan are willing and ready to use it in any form possible.

[Lord of the Morning]

I think it would be possible to tie off a gateway, Rand did it in FoH when Aviendha opened the gateway to seanchan, Rand used the power to hold it open even when he wasn't controlling the weave.  Problem with this is that it only lasts for a couple hours, (hopefully).  This would be an interesting tactic for the Asha'man/aes sedai, they would have to watch over it and make sure it doesn't close, but they don't tire themselves out by holding the gateways open.

[Strykr017]

Also, Grady tells Perrin he can only hold open a gateway for an hour so he can't move the whole army.  Whatever happened to tying off a gateway?

 

It seems like the convenience of gateways is not being exploited (e.g., you don't need to watch each Waygate in person, you just need gateways opened to each Waygate from one location and you monitor them like security cameras since Shadowspawn going through a waygate wouldn't be able to jump through the gateway outside of it, then you just report 'Trollocs coming through Waygate #67).  Similarly, you could have a thousand tied off gateways that essentially give you a canvas of the Blight in a bunch of different locations, using them like security cameras from a single location.  The fact that shadowspawn can't use gateways again minimizes any risk of leaving these open all over the place.

 

Tying a weave off is a trick that not everybody knows.  Many Aes Sedai do NOT know the trick of it.

 

Is there some rule that a single channeler can only have one gateway open at any given time?

 

A gateway requires a HUGE amount of strength to maintain, relative to most Aes Sedai.  Even so, I doubt Rand could weave many large gateways, especially when you consider that maintaining 2 weaves is more than twice as strenuous as holding just one, and holding 3 is more than twice as hard again, and so on.

 

Didn't Rand also spin multiple gatewaves when he weaved the "Deathgates" in KoD?

[coteaz]

Yeah he did but they did not last very long, minutes at most.

[Ged]

I don't think the Deathgates weren't intended to last very long. They were being used as a short range weapon.

 

Considering how quickly the Seanchan replicated the cuendillar based, super male a'dam, one would think that their ter'angreal making damane are fairly proficient. Making these bloodknife ter'angreal might be something they can do.

 

There is also the minor issue here that with RJ gone, BS must be taking some liberties with the story at least. Even if RJ didn't think that the Seanchan had other ter'angreal, doesn't mean that BS thinks the same thing (especially with them easily cloning the male a'dam)

[coteaz]

Someone should just ask BS and find out if they were in RJ's original notes.

[Balefire to da face!]

No one has mentioned it here, I dunno if it's been mentioned in other threads, but did anyone catch the fact that Callandor's "flaw" is probably not a flaw at all?

 

Rand started musing on why exactly Callandor seems to be the sa'angreal that the prophecies are pushing him towards and not the Choedan Kal. We know now that in various ways, from different sources, that the CK is just too much for any mortal to be trusted with.

 

Apparently LTT felt this way all along. We know that the female AS in the AoL's were the ones pushing for the two sa'angreal to be the path to victory, and LTT went against them. The debate got so bad that it became impossble to reconcile. So he took his 100 Companions to SG and did it himself. As we know, this resulted in the backlash and tainted Saidin.

 

The interesting thing is that we also know from Rand's vision in Rhuidian some of the preperation that went into the prophecies and Callandor.

 

I think that the female AS themselves realized the error of thier ways in forcing LTT's hand. They wanted to ensure that those in the next age could not make the same mistake. So they created Callandor purposefully with the "flaw" to ensure that the next Dragon, to wield so much power, would have to work with female channelers.

 

Did anyone catch that?