Tuon and the Seanchan (Full Book Spoilers)

[wumpus]

well once rand finds out that he is married to her, i will bet the first thing that he does after curse mat is take him to ebu dar and make a treaty right there

 

Better hope not.  Remember that Tuon has now determined that she must secure Mat and tie him in her own version of pink ribbons by shaving his head and making a proper High Blood of him.

 

If Rand hauls Mat off to meet Tuon, that'll just start a battle to the death on the spot.

 

I wonder what the Seachan reaction would be if Mat pulled the empress over his lap and paddled her bottom? Would they all die of shock?

[kzickas]

have anyone given thought to the part of the dark prophecy that might concern the seanchan?

 

The Watchers wait on Toman Head.

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes

 

the second line probably refers to either the original attack (which while failed hurt(burned) arad doman, the almoth plain and tarabon all of whom have significant tree symbolism) or their current invasion of the above.

 

But what is the second last line? I can see several possibilities for "slays the ancient wrong" like abolishion of the damane system, but none who qualify for the "again" part. If we can figure this out I think it would shed light on what the seanchan will be doing in the next books

 

Edit: anyone know if the shadowspawn in the seanchan blight were killed before Hawkwing's armies arrived? shadowspawn definitly qualify as "ancient wrong"

[Declan]

have anyone given thought to the part of the dark prophecy that might concern the seanchan?

 

The Watchers wait on Toman Head.

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes

 

the second line probably refers to either the original attack (which while failed hurt(burned) arad doman, the almoth plain and tarabon all of whom have significant tree symbolism) or their current invasion of the above.

 

But what is the second last line? I can see several possibilities for "slays the ancient wrong" like abolishion of the damane system, but none who qualify for the "again" part. If we can figure this out I think it would shed light on what the seanchan will be doing in the next books

 

Edit: anyone know if the shadowspawn in the seanchan blight were killed before Hawkwing's armies arrived? shadowspawn definitly qualify as "ancient wrong"

 

to your last question: i know that in the guide that almost all shadowspawn had been killed on Seanchan when Luthar had arrived. that was because of all those other creatures had been brought over from alternate realities to kill them off by Aes Sedai (legit AS). But it was not Luthair that killed them, they were already gone at that point. i think only Dragkhar remained or something.

[Sharaman]

well once rand finds out that he is married to her, i will bet the first thing that he does after curse mat is take him to ebu dar and make a treaty right there

 

Better hope not.  Remember that Tuon has now determined that she must secure Mat and tie him in her own version of pink ribbons by shaving his head and making a proper High Blood of him.

 

If Rand hauls Mat off to meet Tuon, that'll just start a battle to the death on the spot.

 

I wonder what the Seachan reaction would be if Mat pulled the empress over his lap and paddled her bottom? Would they all die of shock?

 

I don't think he can - Tuon nearly handed him his bottom in WH, she's a martial arts expert. Mat has a habit of getting entangled with tough babes like the Shaido maiden.

[Declan]

you gotta give Mat some credit though. he only gets roughed up by them because he doesn't hit women. but point taken, Tuon is far from helpless.

 

We will see some Tuon in ToM. Probably just as much of her as Rand or Egwene. With her thoughts drifting to Mat, but they won't see each other until a Memory of Light (i think so).

 

When that happens if Tuon will let Mat be the General of her armies or he might just refuse.

[Dunedain Fal]

 

 

I don't think he can - Tuon nearly handed him his bottom in WH, she's a martial arts expert. Mat has a habit of getting entangled with tough babes like the Shaido maiden.

 

That was because he was hurt with a bad hip.

[Sharaman]

 

 

I don't think he can - Tuon nearly handed him his bottom in WH, she's a martial arts expert. Mat has a habit of getting entangled with tough babes like the Shaido maiden.

 

That was because he was hurt with a bad hip.

She might have moved another dan or two up the martial arts ladder while his hip is getting better.

[Declan]

i doubt it considering that she doesnt have time to just continually train in martial arts. she has an Empire to rule you know.

[Rand Skywalker]

I don't know what will happen with the Seanchan, but I hope we don't get served with them becoming the rulers of the world.  I've never really been too keen on the Seanchan, and prefer the Aiel.  OTOH, I liked how the Seanchan fit into the story better in tGH, where they were clearly the antagonists. 

 

I can't see the Seanchan--built on slavery, degradation, and a caste-system so severe that you can be killed for meeting another's eyes or even at a whim--being the good guys salvation at the LB.

[Declan]

agreed Skywalker. i hope they change their ways. i feel a wind of change a blowin for the seanchan...

[Tinkerwrks]

I don't know what will happen with the Seanchan, but I hope we don't get served with them becoming the rulers of the world.  I've never really been too keen on the Seanchan, and prefer the Aiel.  OTOH, I liked how the Seanchan fit into the story better in tGH, where they were clearly the antagonists. 

 

I can't see the Seanchan--built on slavery, degradation, and a caste-system so severe that you can be killed for meeting another's eyes or even at a whim--being the good guys salvation at the LB.

I completely agree.  That scene in tGS where Tuon thinks that Beslan must lower his eyes before she has to have him whipped is sickening.  Honestly, I was a bit disappointed Min didn't accompany Rand to his meeting with Tuon.  I have liked Min to have said, "You will be the last Empress.  Within three generations your empire will crumble until only the city-state of Seandar remains."

[ed2funy]

oh god..that would have been hilarious...

talk about bad omens, right?

 

 

tho...wouldn't that be a little too much for Min to know....her viewings aren't that good....

[wumpus]

oh god..that would have been hilarious...

talk about bad omens, right?

 

 

tho...wouldn't that be a little too much for Min to know....her viewings aren't that good....

 

How about, "I see a crystal throne. A leashed woman is sitting upon it"

[ed2funy]

That would be better.....

 

she could still say the Empress is Leashed on the Crystal Throne....or something so we know it is (For)tuon(a)

 

accompanied with:

"You will be the last Empress.  Within three generations your empire will crumble until only the city-state of Seandar remains."

 

That would be awesome!

;D

 

EDIT: fixed stupid quote....gotta work on my quoting skills

[lordofsoup]

Mat is an expert at matrial arts as well i think.  even if it is not martial arts per say, he is an expert at fighting and killing people, not only from his own experience, but from the experience of all those men, whose memories he has obtained throughout the ages.  he would absolutely destroy tuon in anysort of fight.  the only reason she even challenged him was because he had a broken hip/leg and he will not hit women.  im so happy that Rand got rid of that, it really pissed me off. 

[Sharaman]

By all accounts, he might not have been able to restrain Tuon hand-to-hand even if he'd been fit. He's hardly likely to knife his lady wife. Anyway they're likely to have better things to do.

The likeliest resolution for the Seanchan thread is that the whole Sul'dam = Damane thing explodes along with Fortuona having to cope with flaming angry AS and Aiel. That pushes her to make peace.

 

 

 

[jemron]

It is funny to me that when certain stories don't progress very far and there isn't much to discuss with regards to certain characters between books we almost always revert to "who could beat who in a fight?"

 

Haha.  I think it's funny.  It's so geeky, and I love it.

[lordofsoup]

aiel > seanchan without a doubt.  in a fight, it wouldent even be fair

[Declan]

i think a treaty will be struck between the Seanchan and Rand at the beginning of A Memory of Light. this is just going on that i know there won't be even close to alot of Rand's POV in the next book, and the treaty will be at least one chapter. maybe a couple with an after POV by Tuon or such

[kukster]

Would be intresting if Mat uses the Horn before a meeting with tuon and gets hawking himself to administer a slap down to the seachan leadership.

[Declan]

Would be intresting if Mat uses the Horn before a meeting with tuon and gets hawking himself to administer a slap down to the seachan leadership.

 

that would be HILARIOUS. i like it.

[Eleint]

aiel > seanchan without a doubt.  in a fight, it wouldent even be fair

 

I would say it depends on which Aiel we're talking about.  The 'Early Aiel' or the 'Latter Aiel'.  In the early books, the Aiel were portrayed as this overwhelming monolith who even with all the Southlands united, couldn't be stopped.

 

In the latter books, the clan chiefs make a point of agreeing that the Shienarans (and quite probably other Borderlanders) could stand against them, and there are Southlanders who stand up to them.  Their strength is each and every Aiel fielded is an elite troop, but they're not overwhelming en masse except for this and their enemies are idiots -- see the Cairhienin who kept saying they were savages who would be mowed down like wheat.

 

I tend to actually prefer the latter depiction, as it fits better for me, but some like the uber-munchkin Aiel.

[Sharaman]

Seanchan with Damane Vs Aiel with WO would favour the Seanchan massively. The WO aren't happy about using OP in battle. The Seanchan are very methodical, they institutionalise tactics and strategy and they don't make the same mistakes twice. They've already fought Aiel - in RaT's Altara campaign (though that was mostly Saldaean) and at Malden. Tylee's comments at Malden make it obvious she already knows something about Aiel ways. They would do a better job than most if they have to face Aiel in battle.

 

[Lilbaz]

How many Aes Sadai/ WO have they captured now? With Egwene teaching the Aes Sadai how to release women could haveing a demane be a possible double edged knife? If they go into battle with the white Tower again, all the Aes Sadai have to do is unleash the demane and watch them turn on their owners. I know any general worth his salt would be extremely worried of the fact.

[Sharaman]

If Egwene's AS are around, yes, that is possible. But Egwene is not yet sending AS around saying "uncollar damane if you fight Seanchan". Aiel on their own may or may not stumble on that particular tactic or on linking which would make them more powerful than the Seanchane damane. It can only be done if the damane can be clearly seen. Also it doesn't really work at a distance. The suldam would just put the leashes on again and hide under cover. 

I'm not saying Seanchan cannot be beaten by Aiel.

Seanchan without damane vs Aiel could favour Aiel.

Seanchan +damane vs Aiel +WO would be more fluid and difficult to call.