Man vs Trolloc

[Shaidar]

People, people. We know the WoT world is magical and the humans there are supermen, especially the blademasters. I'm talking about our world. Imagine we have swords and pikes and sword-fighting enthusiasts / experts, and have to fight Trollocs magically transported here from Randland, right now. Will we really have a chance even if we heavily outnumber them? (no firearms please)

 

@balefire to the face (love the name btw)

 

Skill is what matters. Period. All the strength and nastiness in the world is nothing compared to one skillful swing of the sword.

 

One swing of the sword will not kill a Trolloc. Imagining them 10 feet tall, pretty much the only part you can realistically reach and hit are their legs (the head is out of reach). If you manage to hack them off, you can down them and finish them off. But chances are while you're getting in close they'll knock you down with a shield and crush you with an overhead blow from a mace.

 

Which is big, but there have been humans almost as big.

 

They are highly unusual. Humans over 7 feet are very, very rare, and are frequently ungainly and suffer from health problems.

 

And lastly, trollocs do not have the strength of bears or bulls. No matter how big trollocs are built, they are not half a ton animals.

 

Yes, but they're still massively heavier than humans, probably by a factor of three or so. They're heavily muscled.

 

Maybe the DO should sue Thankan'dar for shoddy product then, because whatever they are wearing I don't think I've read a single time in the hundreds of thousands of words of the WoT "Rand's swing struck home, but repounded off the trolloc's sturdy armor".

 

That's another highly unrealistic thing about the books. If the armor was so shoddy as to be vulnerable to blows from weak humans, it would be entirely useless against Trolloc on Trolloc fights. And Trollocs fight a lot amongst themselves. In the real world, where real world physics laws apply, you'll be very hard pressed to slice through Trolloc chainmail.

 

More like a skilled bullfighter playing with a slow, lumbering beast.

 

Imagine yourself with a sword in front of an armed Trolloc. Would you feel like its a slow, lumbering beast? Really? ;)

 

Aim for the head, not even bears or bulls have too much fight in them after a good headshot

 

It's a good idea. Though you'd be surprised, the bear skull is so strong I've heard stories of hunters having their shotgun shells grave it and ricochet off it. Would suck if you try that in front of a charging Trolloc, which is armed, armored and far more dexterous than a bear.

 

4). Skill, intelligence and planning will win out against brute, unintelligent strength everytime.

 

There are limits to everything.

 

@Wingendosering,

 

Tam being a ninja argument aside, Trollocs are cowardly.  One of them dies, the others become reluctant to fight.  And yes skill matters.

 

I think that's more a myth circulated by humans to make them feel good about themselves. In all the battles with Trollocs we've seen they fought bravely to the death until only Myrddraal-less remnants were left, at which point they scattered.

 

Besides, Trollocs also have bull heads and whatnot...some animals' eyes look to the sides, they can't quite look forward properly.

 

That's a good point. Then again, they have an excellent sense of smell and hearing.

 

@Builder,

 

No, I think even in the stone age 3 men could take out one of those big-ass animals that lived during that period of time.

 

Trollocs aren't wild animals. They are an armed and armored band of beastman marauders.

 

@Alternate34,

 

A few things about trollocs seems a little off though.  They probably aren't slow since they are muscular though they may be uncoordinated because of their size.  Many large animals are really fast.  Also, while swordfighting can reduce the advantage of strength, it still has a large effect on fighting.  Parrying can lose effectiveness if the sword wielder is weak.  Actually cutting something is harder when weaker, though this difficulty would be reduced with a power wrought blade.  Strength is also required for proper balance as you need a strong core.  Balance is key when practicing the forms as shown in TGH when Lan has Rand practice that one damn form I can't remember the name of that preceeds Sheathing the Sword.

 

Excellent point about parrying. It is entirely useless if you're fighting against a Trolloc, their strength will know you weapon away and leave your hand numb. The only way to win is to do crazyass acrobatics.

[ROB_88]

 

Besides, Trollocs also have bull heads and whatnot...some animals' eyes look to the sides, they can't quite look forward properly.

 

That's a good point. Then again, they have an excellent sense of smell and hearing.

yes, that's great fro tracking, but for the actual figthing it's best to see the enemy. and don't gorget that Trolloc-eyes don't like light very much

[Reyoru]

Just to clarify on the earlier point about the strength of trolloc armor against swords: (can't quote sorry am on my phone)

 

Rand can't be used as an example in this case; his power wrought (saidin created) blade "treats their armor like cloth" (during the Tear battle in tsr) normal steel wouldn't easily penetrate trolloc plate

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

A true katana, forged by a weaponsmith using the whole folding technique, is strong enough to literally split a human being from skull to waist. I think we can assume a power wrought blade could cut through trolloc armor, which is not of the highest quality.

 

Also, i am between 6feet and 6'1" in height, and my arms are 25 inches from wrist to ribcage. if i held a sword with a 3 foot blade in both hands and extended it overhead in some type of swing, i could reach 9 feet off the ground. I say 9 feet because that would be where the trollocs neck would be, and that is much more vulnerable than the skull. In the borderlands, they usually fight from horseback as well, giving even more of an advantage. All in all, for someone trained in combat with a sword, fighting a beast of this size and physical composition is not really outside the realm of possibility, even in a fantasy world.

[Durinax]

plus when they fight on horse the horses are trained warmounts.

 

toe to toe we now a days (if we had training with weapons) would be better off against a trolloc than Randland peoples, exception being the Aiel. These days humans are typically taller (depending on variables suhc as quality/quantity of food, geneology, etc) allowing for a bigger kill zone.

 

But if it came down to a world wide war with trollocs, and we couldnt use firearms, ICBM's, etc, we would lose hard core

[Mr. Micawber]

They are highly unusual. Humans over 7 feet are very, very rare, and are frequently ungainly and suffer from health problems.

 

This is why I get so bloody pissed off at the Aiel.

 

Frankly, they have to be the result of some kind of AoL genetic manipulation, because we routinely hear about guys who are over seven feet tall, can run marathons every day, can survive in a desert with practically no melanin, and fight better unarmed than trained soldiers encased in armor and carrying steel.

 

That's one more reason why I love Mat. He's no bloody superhero.

 

I'm looking at you, Mr. Fire-sword McBalefire and Mr. Schwarzenegger O'Wolfman.

[Muad Cheade]

They are highly unusual. Humans over 7 feet are very, very rare, and are frequently ungainly and suffer from health problems.

 

This is why I get so bloody pissed off at the Aiel.

 

Frankly, they have to be the result of some kind of AoL genetic manipulation, because we routinely hear about guys who are over seven feet tall, can run marathons every day, can survive in a desert with practically no melanin, and fight better unarmed than trained soldiers encased in armor and carrying steel.

 

That's one more reason why I love Mat. He's no bloody superhero.

 

I'm looking at you, Mr. Fire-sword McBalefire and Mr. Schwarzenegger O'Wolfman.

 

Except Mat only has the memories of countless heroes and generals along with their prowess with weapons and in combat and is also ridiculously lucky. Yep. He's a regular Joe.

 

Most Aiel are not over seven feet tall as you hyperbolize. Have you heard of the Zulus? They could run marathons all day and they were able to defeat the British empire with spears while the British had guns.

 

Anyways. It's a fantasy story. Trollocs, the One Power, Aiel, Wolfbrothers etc do not exist. Obviously, they could only exist in Robert Jordan's world not ours.

[Mr. Micawber]

They are highly unusual. Humans over 7 feet are very, very rare, and are frequently ungainly and suffer from health problems.

 

This is why I get so bloody pissed off at the Aiel.

 

Frankly, they have to be the result of some kind of AoL genetic manipulation, because we routinely hear about guys who are over seven feet tall, can run marathons every day, can survive in a desert with practically no melanin, and fight better unarmed than trained soldiers encased in armor and carrying steel.

 

That's one more reason why I love Mat. He's no bloody superhero.

 

I'm looking at you, Mr. Fire-sword McBalefire and Mr. Schwarzenegger O'Wolfman.

 

Except Mat only has the memories of countless heroes and generals along with their prowess with weapons and in combat and is also ridiculously lucky. Yep. He's a regular Joe.

 

Most Aiel are not over seven feet tall as you hyperbolize. Have you heard of the Zulus? They could run marathons all day and they were able to defeat the British empire with spears while the British had guns.

 

Anyways. It's a fantasy story. Trollocs, the One Power, Aiel, Wolfbrothers etc do not exist. Obviously, they could only exist in Robert Jordan's world not ours.

 

Gee, Muad, next you'll tell me that there aren't giant killer frogs, flying lizards, 20/15 vision men lacking eyes who can travel through wormholes found apparently in every shadow, poisonous bats that look like skinny goth kids with way too much mascara, and an omnipotent being that chooses to live in a giant, fiery toilet!  ::)

 

PS: Of course I know about the Zulus, mate, but they lived in a pretty damn nice part of Southern Africa. Additionally, they were pretty formidable, but they're nothing like the Aiel killing machines.

 

Isandlwana was far more a result of epic FAIL on the part of Chelmsford, operationally and tactically; Rorke's Drift, by contrast, was a complete massacre even while it was hard fought, and the rest of the war was a complete disaster for Cetshwayo, who knew absolutely how badly he would be destroyed by the Empire's armed forces, and frankly London really didn't even bother to send much to Cape Colony, but was forced into war by Lord Caernarvon and a bunch of other imperialists.

 

The Waste is more like the Kalahari, and the Khoisan bushmen most assuredly are not running around fighting battles, nor have there ever been several million of them living in giant rock formations in Namibia and Botswana.

[Durinax]

The acutal people that the aiel are based off of are pretty close to the description (just not physical characteristics such as colour, hair colour) but the actual people where taller than average. Also part of the problem of being really tall is that we are not in a physically oriented world so we dont work our muscles as much and this produces physiological problems when you are extremely tall

[Mr. Micawber]

And Muad, I believe the good people over at TvTropes would probably - if they don't already - classify Mat as a badass normal. Or, if he's got superpowers, it's more in the Batman line than the Superman line like most everyone else in the series.

[Hallow]

It's pretty hard to kill a guy with a sword when you have a stick and some rope.

Unless you're Mat with his quarterstaff . . .

 

Or you know.. that stick and some rope is a longbow..

 

On a separate note, I can take on 24 five year olds in a straight on fight.

[Charlz Guybon]

We know that when ever Tam enters the Bel time competion for archery or quaterstaff he always wins, this indiactes that he has had significant training. We also know that Tam bought the sword instead of winning it from a blademaster. These two things lead me to believe that Tam was at least reasonable proficient using a blade when he left the army but probably wasn't a fully certified blademaster.

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

[Charlz Guybon]

Just to clarify on the earlier point about the strength of trolloc armor against swords: (can't quote sorry am on my phone)

 

Rand can't be used as an example in this case; his power wrought (saidin created) blade "treats their armor like cloth" (during the Tear battle in tsr) normal steel wouldn't easily penetrate trolloc plate

Trolloc's don't wear plate, they wear crudely made chain mail.

 

Also, you don't have to penetrate that deepely into an animal to hit major blood vessels and organs. You don't have to decapitate, disembowel or hack the limb of a trolloc in order to injure it badly.

[Lord Monty]

I have always compared trollocs to brutes from halo. There big, fast, and extremely strong, but yet not too difficult to kill if you know what your doing. As mentioned in a earlier post they fought trollocs in the Trolloc Wars with pikemen protecting crossbows men and archers which elimates all the proir advantages I listed earlier. Now as for the easy in which Lan, Rand, and blademasters dispatch these creatures is another thing. I have always taking trollocs fighting style is strong hacking swings which if one dodges (Similar to what Lan does in his short confrontation with Byar in TGH I think) the trollocs  would be open to lung shots and other vital blows.  ;D

[Mr. Dragon]

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

 

I haven't got the book with me so i'm working completely from memory but didn't Tam say during his fever that he had bought a sword for a few copper, I had assumed it was the same one that he kept in that chest, otherwise why would he mention it. I would have thought that spending years training as a blademaster before becoming one would be something he might mention if that was how he came by the sword. Buying your first sword is something you would remember but I don't think it would be of enough importance that RJ would wright Tam saying it without it being the one he just defended himself with.

[Mr. Micawber]

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

 

I haven't got the book with me so i'm working completely from memory but didn't Tam say during his fever that he had bought a sword for a few copper, I had assumed it was the same one that he kept in that chest, otherwise why would he mention it. I would have thought that spending years training as a blademaster before becoming one would be something he might mention if that was how he came by the sword. Buying your first sword is something you would remember but I don't think it would be of enough importance that RJ would wright Tam saying it without it being the one he just defended himself with.

 

When he said that two coppers was far too much, well, first of all, that much steel alone is worth more than two coppers.

 

Rather, what I think he was saying was

 

"The damn thing wasn't worth even two coppers"

[Swigaro]

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

 

I haven't got the book with me so i'm working completely from memory but didn't Tam say during his fever that he had bought a sword for a few copper, I had assumed it was the same one that he kept in that chest, otherwise why would he mention it. I would have thought that spending years training as a blademaster before becoming one would be something he might mention if that was how he came by the sword. Buying your first sword is something you would remember but I don't think it would be of enough importance that RJ would wright Tam saying it without it being the one he just defended himself with.

 

When he said that two coppers was far too much, well, first of all, that much steel alone is worth more than two coppers.

 

Rather, what I think he was saying was

 

"The damn thing wasn't worth even two coppers"

 

IIRC The "The damn thing wasn't worth even two coppers," comment was made in the Winespring Inn, when Rand was saying his good-byes, not during his feever dream...

 

 

[Charlz Guybon]

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

 

I haven't got the book with me so i'm working completely from memory but didn't Tam say during his fever that he had bought a sword for a few copper, I had assumed it was the same one that he kept in that chest, otherwise why would he mention it. I would have thought that spending years training as a blademaster before becoming one would be something he might mention if that was how he came by the sword. Buying your first sword is something you would remember but I don't think it would be of enough importance that RJ would wright Tam saying it without it being the one he just defended himself with.

It's a heron marked blade made with the one power. It's more priceless then cuendillar (spelling?), it's probably worth 10,000 gold crowns. He must have recieved it from the hands of the King of Illian himself for heroic service in the Companians. The only other power wrought blades we know of have been owned by Royalty. Lan's sword was that of the Kings of Malkier, Laman's sword was the royal sword of Cairhien, the Sword of Kirikun the royal sword of Kandor.

[Mr. Micawber]

He didn't buy the sword with money but with blood. When the King of Illian was captured by Pedron Nial during the Whitecloak war, it was the Companians that saved the army of Illian from being routed. It was there that Tam's rise likely began.

 

I haven't got the book with me so i'm working completely from memory but didn't Tam say during his fever that he had bought a sword for a few copper, I had assumed it was the same one that he kept in that chest, otherwise why would he mention it. I would have thought that spending years training as a blademaster before becoming one would be something he might mention if that was how he came by the sword. Buying your first sword is something you would remember but I don't think it would be of enough importance that RJ would wright Tam saying it without it being the one he just defended himself with.

It's a heron marked blade made with the one power. It's more priceless then cuendillar (spelling?), it's probably worth 10,000 gold crowns. He must have recieved it from the hands of the King of Illian himself for heroic service in the Companians. The only other power wrought blades we know of have been owned by Royalty. Lan's sword was that of the Kings of Malkier, Laman's sword was the royal sword of Cairhien, the Sword of Kirikun the royal sword of Kandor.

 

Actually, Charlz, you're correct. RJ himself said that Tam received it from Mattin Stepanos' own hands