The Gholam?

[Sharaman]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

[Durinax]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

the gholam would also become immortal if it got stuck in hinderstrap, unless it over ate one day and exploded

[Sharaman]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

the gholam would also become immortal if it got stuck in hinderstrap, unless it over ate one day and exploded

Yes but it'd be stuck to the village so essentially out of the game until whatever was affected Hinderstap ended.

[Dakota]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

the gholam would also become immortal if it got stuck in hinderstrap, unless it over ate one day and exploded

 

Perhaps, perhaps not.  Depends on the nature of the Hinderstrap effect and the nature of the gholam.  If Hinderstrap just reincarnates people's souls into their bodies after they die, if the gholam doesn't have a soul, it would have nothing to reincarnate back.  Or some other combination of factors, but you get the general idea.

[Dreamwalker]

unless it over ate one day and exploded

LOL! That image is priceless, it would be hysterical (even though it won't happen) ;D

[storywriter100]

Yes but it'd be stuck to the village so essentially out of the game until whatever was affected Hinderstap ended.

 

But then it would be free to roam the world again AFTER the thing in Hinderstrap ended. And it probably will end. RJ isn't really one to leave loose ends lying around (tower of Ghenji for example).

[Sharaman]

Depends on how HInderstap ends. If it ends with GloD breaking loose and winning, the gholam's fate is moot. It'll be just one of gazillion nasties roaming around.

If Rand manages to lock GLoD up, he'll probably end up blocking TP - at the least since it was shielded from the world in the AoL.

In that case, the gholam may just fall apart, since it was a construct that had TP involved.

Anyway, it's one possible reason for Hinderstrap to have been put into the storyline. :)

[mb]

If the people in hinderstrap die during the day are they dead for ever? and if not do they age?

Some have committed suicide and were buried, but they woke up the next morning.

The discussion in the book does not tell whether the suicide was during day or during night.

 

[yoniy0]

If the people in hinderstrap die during the day are they dead for ever? and if not do they age?

Some have committed suicide and were buried, but they woke up the next morning.

The discussion in the book does not tell whether the suicide was during day or during night.

Indeed, but one can wonder whether they would have the presence of mind to commit suicide during the night, not to mention how could someone else take the time to bury them if they had :)

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

 

I do not see how the Gholam could get stuck there.  The only thing that ever hurt it was Mat's medallion.  I agree that the weaknesses of the medallion are clues to beat the Gholam. 

 

I think a one power created bolt of lightining can kill or really hurt the Gholam.  Mat was killed by Raven in Fires of Heaven while Mat was wearing the medallion.  The medallion blocks both Saidar and Saidin.  We have seen its effects with Saidar several times and only twice with Saidin.  The first time was the bolt of lighting from Raven when the medallion failed and we saw it work when Balthamel(Halima) tried to use the power on Mat in Salidar in the Lord of Chaos.

[Sharaman]

My theory is that it'll end up in Hinderstap following Mat.

Then it'll get sucked into that vampire cycle and whatever it does, it'll be tied to HInderstap and find itself back there in the morning. Since it can't Travel, it's movements will be restricted to one day's trip around the village. 

Since the villagers are immortal, they'll beat it to death eventually.

 

 

I do not see how the Gholam could get stuck there.  The only thing that ever hurt it was Mat's medallion.  I agree that the weaknesses of the medallion are clues to beat the Gholam. 

 

I think a one power created bolt of lightining can kill or really hurt the Gholam.  Mat was killed by Raven in Fires of Heaven while Mat was wearing the medallion.  The medallion blocks both Saidar and Saidin.  We have seen its effects with Saidar several times and only twice with Saidin.  The first time was the bolt of lighting from Raven when the medallion failed and we saw it work when Balthamel(Halima) tried to use the power on Mat in Salidar in the Lord of Chaos.

 

If the gholam kills and drinks the blood of a villager who is resurrected the next morning, he will get dragged back there into bed with the villager.  It kills the villager again and runs off. Next night it finds itself back in the same bed.  :)

(Why on Earth is anybody taking this theory seriously?)

Mat's medallion only blocks weaves, it doesn't block secondary effects caused by weaves. If you pick up a rock and hit him with it, he's hit. Ditto with the lightning - one-power was used to cause the potential difference that resulted in the lightning. The lightning itself was not woven with OP. But the gholam can't be damaged by a knife, for example and it's boneless enough to probably survive under a rock and wriggle out. So it could also be immune to major electric shocks.

 

[Crael123]

if there are volcanos in randland i think it would helarious if mat just chucks it in too one

[FarShainMael]

From Sharaman:

it could also be immune to major electric shocks.

 

A bolt of lightning is more than just a 'major  electric shock'. It involves enormous quantities of heat and electrical energy. If the gholam has anything resembling the human nervous system, there's a good chance it would be burned out, and if it's made of organic tissue it would be cooked to a turn. (According to conventional physics, anyway!  ;) )

 

From Crael123:

if there are volcanos in randland i think it would hilarious if mat just chucks it into one

 

just as long as it doesn't bite his finger off first..  :P

 

 

[Sharaman]

From Sharaman:

it could also be immune to major electric shocks.

 

A bolt of lightning is more than just a 'major  electric shock'. It involves enormous quantities of heat and electrical energy. If the gholam has anything resembling the human nervous system, there's a good chance it would be burned out, and if it's made of organic tissue it would be cooked to a turn. (According to conventional physics, anyway!  ;) )

 

I know but there are lots of documented cases of normal people, who have survived being hit by lightning. It's even supposed to be good for rheumatism (assuming you survive). :) 

[storywriter100]

In all honesty i dont think it will get hit by a bolt of lightening :) Matt will probably be the one to kill it so it will be something to do with him. He gets really lucky and it spontaniously combusts, for example :)

[FarShainMael]

In all honesty i dont think it will get hit by a bolt of lightening :) Matt will probably be the one to kill it so it will be something to do with him. He gets really lucky and it spontaniously combusts, for example :)

 

:D   :D    :D

 

[Dida]

As an aside it seems that Barthanas was killed by a Gholam, at least his manner of death was described the same way as Harid Fels and we know he was killed by a Gholam.  Moridin would probably realize what Fel could reveal since even though Ishamael is insane he still is a philosopher.

I forgot about that scene. It makes it certain that Ishamael knows about a Gholam, no one else but him would order the assassination of a philosopher like Fel. It may be a different Gholam from Sammael's though.

 

Ishamael/Moridin is show to been clueless to the dangers of Gholam in the wild, as the Watcher.  Moridin comments that nothing can notice the True Power, when that's not absolutely true, as a Gholam can sense the True Power. Does Moridin not know a Gholam is on the powl already?

 

 

Rand was the first person the series to mention that a Gholam even existed, to Mazrim Taim of all people (LoC book)

 

Fel could of been assassinated with a Gholam, by Sammael, Mazrim Taim or Demandred among others.  Moridin is not a likely candidate for assassinating the philosopher Fel at the Academy.  No direct evidence Moridin was active then either. 

 

What the text does not disclosed is the gender of the Gholam which killed Fel. 

 

But the text did tell us, that the Gholem after Mat and a bunch of female channelers in Ebou Dar was a male Gholam (aCoS).

 

Are they the very same Gholam or not? In each attack?

That's an unknown set of facts current.

 

 

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We know the Gholam has a Mind, a Gholam can Dream, and a Gholam wants to break free a constraint imposed upon itself...almost like the Dark One wants to break free of the Bore.

 

  How are orders, commands given to a Gholam?

  Where are those orders, commands given to a Gholam?

 

  Was a type of binder, oath rod used during the creation process of a Gholam?

  Why does a Gholam have a Mind, unlike the Soulless?

 

  Is the True Power the part of the Power used to aid in the creation of a Gholam?

  Was Mat's medallion repelling, dissolving, or "frying" the True Power of a Gholam?

 

  If Graendal almost once died from a Gholam at her command, does this mean that a Compulsion weave does not work against a Gholam? Maybe because a Compulsion weave is a direct weave, rather than an indirect weave?

 

  Are orders, commands given to a Gholam in the Tel'aran'rhiod?

 

  Why do Gholam's feel constrained to follow the orders of a human at all?

[Durinax]

alright the Soulless dont have a soul, but they do have a mind, they can control their actions.

 

as to why a gholam will listen to a human it is likely because Aginor put some sort of control mechanism in when he created them so that DF's of a certain lvl could control them

 

we know that there where 3 male and 3 female gholams, current number is approximately 1

 

maybe gholams where once human but some kind of shadow weave was used upon them along with AoL's technology to make them as they are, if a weave was used on them then it must be totally tied off and still connected to the source so the medallion would have started to split that weave

[yoniy0]

Dida, as usual, I disagree.

First, the Ebou Dari gholem didn't quite know what it was sensing itself when he was near TP residue, so how can you expect anyone else to be aware of the fact that they can?

Second, the timing for the two gholem appearances being the same one is dicey. Still could be possible, but dicey.

Third, why would you think anything we know about the grey men would also apply for gholems? Why not project trolloc features to them, while you're at it?

Fourth, I wouldn't expect Compulsion to work on them. It does require direct channeling.

Fifth, why do you think gholems can even enter TAR? Surely, even if they do dream, they can't maintain a long-term presence there, just like any (non-Talented) human.

And last but not least, why wouldn't a gholem obey orders? It's shadowspawn, it obeys people bearing the Chosen Mark. Period. Well, at least when it's not under contradicting orders from the DO.

[OptimusPrime]

Shadowspawn die when passing through gateways, isnt that right? Also, Rand made a construct with Callandor that hunted down and killed Shadowspawn in wherever it was, maybe something like that could work.

 

Padan Fain maybe, also Im betting that Rand or Moridin, and most likely Shaidar, might be able to use the True Power on it without any problems.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Dida, as usual, I disagree.

First, the Ebou Dari gholem didn't quite know what it was sensing itself when he was near TP residue, so how can you expect anyone else to be aware of the fact that they can?

Second, the timing for the two gholem appearances being the same one is dicey. Still could be possible, but dicey.

Third, why would you think anything we know about the grey men would also apply for gholems? Why not project trolloc features to them, while you're at it?

Fourth, I wouldn't expect Compulsion to work on them. It does require direct channeling.

Fifth, why do you think gholems can even enter TAR? Surely, even if they do dream, they can't maintain a long-term presence there, just like any (non-Talented) human.

And last but not least, why wouldn't a gholem obey orders? It's shadowspawn, it obeys people bearing the Chosen Mark. Period. Well, at least when it's not under contradicting orders from the DO.

I agree with everything but 2.

 

Why is the time for them to be the same Gholam dicey?  Cairhain is at the end of Lord of Choas while Ebou Dar is at the end of Crown of Swords. 

[Sharaman]

Why is the time for them to be the same Gholam dicey?  Cairhain is at the end of Lord of Choas while Ebou Dar is at the end of Crown of Swords. 

 

The time between the Fel killing and the Ebou Dar incident in the Rahad is six days. It is even less if we assume that the gholam was summoned after the Sammael-Carridin conversation.

The gholam would have had to go from Carhein in the North East to Ebou Dar in extreme South in 6 days or less. It can't Travel but of course, it may be able to use the Ways, (it would have to know how to navigate them - not just a question of not being disturbed by Machin Shin). 

[Aquarius]

Sorry for asking, if that's been shoved aside before.

 

What do we know of the vulnerability of the Gholam against the True Power ? could Rand or Moridin kill the Gholam with the TP just as easily as they kill anyone else with the one power ?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Why is the time for them to be the same Gholam dicey?  Cairhain is at the end of Lord of Choas while Ebou Dar is at the end of Crown of Swords. 

 

The time between the Fel killing and the Ebou Dar incident in the Rahad is six days. It is even less if we assume that the gholam was summoned after the Sammael-Carridin conversation.

The gholam would have had to go from Carhein in the North East to Ebou Dar in extreme South in 6 days or less. It can't Travel but of course, it may be able to use the Ways, (it would have to know how to navigate them - not just a question of not being disturbed by Machin Shin). 

You would have to assume the Gholam stayed in Cairhain after killing Fel, but 6 days.  How do you get 6 days?

[bronnt]

Why is the time for them to be the same Gholam dicey?  Cairhain is at the end of Lord of Choas while Ebou Dar is at the end of Crown of Swords. 

 

The time between the Fel killing and the Ebou Dar incident in the Rahad is six days. It is even less if we assume that the gholam was summoned after the Sammael-Carridin conversation.

The gholam would have had to go from Carhein in the North East to Ebou Dar in extreme South in 6 days or less. It can't Travel but of course, it may be able to use the Ways, (it would have to know how to navigate them - not just a question of not being disturbed by Machin Shin). 

 

You would have to assume the Gholam stayed in Cairhain after killing Fel, but 6 days.  How do you get 6 days?

 

A lot of this is based on Steven Cooper's timeline.  http://www.stevenac.net/wot/tl1000.htm

 

It's not perfect, but it's as good as anything we have.  We have a really strong confirmation for the date of Fel's death, since Rand learned about it a day later.  The events concerning Mat rely more heavily on an extrapolated lunar calendar, but the Elayne and Nynaeve's movements are tracked fairly well, day to day, so there can't more than a day's error (my own opinion-Cooper is really confident in his timeline for books 4-10) in either direction regarding when the bowl of the winds is found.

 

It's sketchy, but if he used the Ways it's certainly possible.  If Mydraal can apparently navigate the Ways with little assistance, a gholam probably can too.