The DO will be the underdog in Tarmon Gai'don?

[Monitor]

 

Not much space is needed for hit-and-run Traveling tactics. If outnumbered, Travel away somewhere, Randland is pretty large, the DO cannot post a trolloc behind every tree. If a Traveling scout party finds a small enemy force, travel in reinforcements and massacre. Repeat.

 

Well, at Dumai's Wells the non-channeling troops were simply unable to close due to the dome of air. The battle was decided between the channelers. The regular troops were unimportant.

 

Yes, the DO has some channelers, but as noted the Light has many more.

 

Regarding Demandred, see my second post, a limited time of mostly theoretical studies during two years cannot match decades of real-world experience.

 

Now Moridin is more interesting. Not sure how often he has been free but a common guess seem to be that he was free every thousand years. That is after the Breaking, during the Trolloc Wars, and during the War of the Hundred Years, every time causing major problems and warfare. Not unlikely several hundred years of low-tech warfare. Still outclassed in this by Mat.

 

You take up another point. From what we know Mat has the most high-tech low-tech with cannons and super-crossbows. Of course, the DO could be building high-tech equipment, he has the Forsaken with some knowledge. But we have seen no indication from the Forsaken's povs that they have been used for technology improvements. Aginor seems to have been the chief Mad Scientist during the Age of Legends. If the DO had a technology improvement program Aginor would certainly have been where he belongs, in the lab, instead of with the Asha'man and on the battlefield.

 

Yes, the DO may have a lot of Trollocs. But again, they will be sitting ducks for hit-and-run Traveling tactics by channelers or combined channelers/regular troops. The same with Blight monsters.

 

The Ashaman beat the Shaido Wise Ones soundly, not because they outnumbered them, though that helped, but because they had much more experience using the power in battle. The difference in experience will either not be there in the last battle, or be on the side of the dreadlords. One can only pick up a weave if you're the same gender. Darkfriend Ashaman against wiseones would be a massacre unless they're massively outnumbered. Only the new weaves they've learned from the Aes Sedai will keep them in the fight.

 

You overestimate how willing people will be to leave their homeland and traveling around. They will want to stay home and protect their own lands and people.

 

Furthermore, in the Age of Legends, the Light had the traveling advantage, and at first the advantage in channelers, but they still would have lost if not for the Dragon's last chance strike.

Seeing how quickly channelers can copy a weave they have seen briefly, once the WT is united, they can have a brief "Battle 101" course for the Wise Ones and other female channelers and quickly teach the battle weaves.

 

Soldiers have throughout history moved away from their home to do battle in foreign lands. Besides, with Traveling they can stay in their castle and only Travel away during working hours.

 

Your last point already answered by Owners.Inc.

[Mr Ares]

But that is Deux Ex machinations.

No. It's Deus, considering it is actually a god doing it, but Deus ex Machina is used for solutions that haven't been set up. Shai'tan's powers have been, so unless He's capable of acting on a scale like we haven't seen before, it isn't Deus Ex Machina.

 

Now, bearing in mind that the principles of strategy are unchanging, and that the Chosen have experience of low tech warfare, and that the Third Agers are using weapons and technologies new to them, and armies larger than they've made use of before, we can conclude that the military situation is not as bad as some would have you believe, and that Monitor really needs to read a good book on war.

 

(TGS Prologue).

This is not a designated spoiler thread. Quick, edit your post or a mod might have to work!

[Charlz Guybon]

But that is Deux Ex machinations.

No. It's Deus, considering it is actually a god doing it, but Deus ex Machina is used for solutions that haven't been set up. Shai'tan's powers have been, so unless He's capable of acting on a scale like we haven't seen before, it isn't Deus Ex Machina.

 

Indeed, a Dark One induced famine has been foreshadowed since the very first book.

[Luckers]

Quote from: Muad Cheade

(TGS Prologue).

 

This is not a designated spoiler thread. Quick, edit your post or a mod might have to work!

 

Too late for that. *wanders off muttering sourly*.

 

In the future though can you message one of us if you see this?

[Seven of Nine]

Of course we cannot know regarding the future. But I think the situation in the KOD moved slowly towards a united front and reduced pro-DO chaos (see my earlier comment on this). The prophecies hints as future non-violent interactions and help between the major parties (Rand, Egwene, and the Seanchan.) As does the storylines of Mat and Egwene, both moving into positions of power where they can help Rand.

Anything regarding the future obviously is speculation but I think that the purpose of Mat marrying Tuon and Egwene taking control of the WT clearly is to help the people unite against the DO. My point was not regarding the situation now but when TG starts.

What I'm saying is we don't know what will happen with the White Tower. You're assuming Egwene will unite both the TAS and the SAS. We have no basis for believing to happen. We all want it to happen but we don't know. Also, with the Seanchan about to attack the Tower and Rand having Aes Sedai swear fealty to him makes unification a lot harder between those three.

And an attack on the Tower by the Seanchan would certainly move the AS to unite against a common enemy. Having been a captive of them, Egwene would be a power to deal with if it happens after she's been as effective with the AS as with the Novices (as shown in KoD)--assuming, of course, that she succeeds.

 

The Wise Ones may not know as much as the Aes Sedai and Asha'man but they have already used the power offensively and extensively in battles.

And they don't have the limitations that the 3 oaths carry for the AS. They could be used offensively while the AS would have to take a defensive position.

 

Yes, Traveling may take some energy. But the few channelers Rand had with during his campaign against the Seanchan in Tear moved quite a lot of troops multiple times and still had some energy left over for offensive channeling.

But that can be difficult if you tire your channelers with traveling and then need them to fight right away, too. That has to be taken into consideration.

 

Your mistake is thinking of Tarmon Gai'don as a war. You don't make war with enemies that are unkillable, entrapped gods. The warfare is, I believe, a distraction. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the end, Tarmon Gai'don is a decision Rand must make. That in the end, it comes down to the person he is. Or not. What is relevent, though, is that the whole Trolloc Wars angle is a red herring the DO wants to distract Rand with- seriously, if the "good guys" win th physical battle but lose the metaphysic, it's all over. If they win the metaphysic, and cut off the DO, then his servants will fall apart.

Now that would be an interesting twist.

 

Frankly, unless Rand can come up with a way to seal the bore, all the rest is hopeless.  The BEST the light can hope to do is drive the DO's forces back into the blight, but they can't invade the blight effectively - how do you fight against poisoned corrupted plants?  The DO can just win a war of attrition and, if he loses, just regroup in the blight.

Rand recognizes this and has been trying to get Lews Therin to tell him what he did. But what Lews Therin did wasn't enough, so even if Rand finds out what it is, he has to have saidar channelers be part of the solution. So will it be Egwene who is the one with Rand, or could that be the role Min saw for Moiraine (and assuming Thom's raid to rescue her succeeds)?

 

You do realize that Egwene is still very much a prisoner of the WT and she could be executed at Elaida's whim at any time. Mat is heading to the ToG to rescue Moiraine and he just weakened the Seanchan significantly by killing tens of thousands of their soldiers. Mat and Egwene are currently not in any position to help Rand.

But is she really a prisoner? She left the Aiel to go to the Salidar AS when she was called using T'A'R. If push comes to shove, couldn't she do that again? I know the Wise Ones were really concerned about it, but compared to being stilled or killed that would be a better option.

 

At the end of KoD I was feeling more optimistic about Rand's situation, until the review of TGS and this quote (http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=585):

. . . Robert Jordan described Rand and his situation like this:

 

The world and the forces of the Light are in bad shape. At this point, boys and girls, the Shadow is winning. There are glimmers of hope, but only glimmers, and they MUST pay off for the Light to win. All the Shadow needs for victory is for matters to keep on as they have been going thus far and one or two of those glimmers to fade or be extinguished. The forces of the Light are on the ropes, and they don’t even know everything the Dark One has up his sleeve.

 

Think of it this way. The bell is about to ring for the fifteenth round, and the Light is so far behind on points the only way to win is a knockout. Our boy is game, but he’s wobbly on his legs and bleeding from cuts over his eyes. Now he has three minutes to pull out his best stuff and deliver the punch of his life. The Dark One has taken a few shots, but nothing that has really damaged him. He’s still dancing on his toes and talking trash. His head shots can fracture a skull, and his body punches can break ribs. And now he’s ready to unveil his surprises. You didn’t think all it would take is for Rand to show up at the Last Battle, did you? According to the Prophecies, the Light has no chance without him, but his presence doesn’t ensure victory, just that the Light has a chance. Gotta stiffen your legs and blink the blood out of your eyes. Gotta suck it up and find that punch. Three minutes to go, and you gotta find that knockout. That’s your only chance.

Any idea when RJ said this? Is it still relevant? I know we haven't really seen much of the DO's big plans, so methinks it is still relevant.

[DemandredFO]

Monitor, seem to assume that the light will be in perfect shape, As per the white tower between the seanchan and then the shadow I seriously doubt the WT will be in any position to do much uniting, much less if Egwene evacuates the tower with many sisters when the seanchan attack the SAS and the towers sisters probably aren't going to mix well at first.  The attack in Tear was repulsed barely, because as others said no Dreadlords and Lews Therin took control and used Blossom of Fire, AoF and deathgates and they still almost lost.  Even though stuff looks hunky-dory to you there are DO surprises and darkfriends, it only takes a few well-placed darkfriends to make a royal mess; perhaps in your united perfect world Rand would have the forces necessary to go looking for darkfriends but is too busy doing more important things.

[sheikh chilli]

the dark one is pretty clueless for someone who is supposedly a big time badass. i reckon the only thing he has done for the past 3000 years of any repute is tainting saidin.

 

his forsaken keep getting killed and captured and his soldiers are worthless. he just has a few useless pawns.

 

tarmon gaidon will be quick and clean even with a fool like rand leading the way

[DemandredFO]

sheikh chilli, if you truely believe Tarmon Gai'don will be quick and clean why are you still reading.  You already Know Rand is a fool and will die and ABR(anyone but Rand) will rule over the earth.

[sheikh chilli]

sheikh chilli, if you truely believe Tarmon Gai'don will be quick and clean why are you still reading.  You already Know Rand is a fool and will die and ABR(anyone but Rand) will rule over the earth.

 

 

i am only reading for three characters. egwene, padan fain and logain. The rest i dont care about

[Yizun]

You are mistaken is assuming that the Last Battle will be a battle. We have battles in our everyday lives but does that mean we pull out the swords and shields and have at it?

 

Also the greatest advantage that the DO has is that he is enshrouded in mystery. The forces of light have not the faintest idea what he is doing and no idea who is secret agents, for the lack of a better term, are. One single Aes Sedai or Asha'man, in the right position, could take down over 100 other Aes Sedai or Asha'man if in the right situation. Say a trusted Aes Sedai is given a powerful Sa'Angreal but then turns out to be a Dark Friend. The forces of light just lost that Aes Sedai plus a Sa'Angreal PLUS anyone she takes down before getting the heck outta there.

 

You have to realize, the DO knows he is outnumbered, but as Mat has proven, numbers are not everything

[Seven of Nine]

sheikh chilli, if you truely believe Tarmon Gai'don will be quick and clean why are you still reading.  You already Know Rand is a fool and will die and ABR(anyone but Rand) will rule over the earth.

What makes you think Rand would want to rule the world if he survives?

[Owners.Inc]

Even though I agree with Monitor, I really don't think that TG will be quick and clean. I'm one of those who prefers to think that TG began in EOTW (kind of) and will end with AMOL. So far, its been anything but clean or quick. As for the fighting in the Blight, I'll be really disappointed if that is either quick or clean. But unlike you, sheikh chilli, I have faith in Brandon, and RJ. TG WILL BE EPIC. even though i still think the DO isn't as uber as everyone seems to make out.

[vasu619]

I hope that in the 14th book, there is the beginning of TG as a massive war, and someone gives a huge, inspiring oratory spanning 50 pages a la John Galt's radio speech in Atlas Shrugged. I also hope that the 13th book ends with the words: "Tarmon Gai'don had begun", although I fully realise how unlikely both of these will be :D.

[Braus]

Sheik you really hit some kind of nerve for me >.< Id compare you with people who watch sports on tv and say out loud that they could do it better. Its that other thread aswell...

[Owners.Inc]

I hope that in the 14th book, there is the beginning of TG as a massive war, and someone gives a huge, inspiring oratory spanning 50 pages a la John Galt's radio speech in Atlas Shrugged. I also hope that the 13th book ends with the words: "Tarmon Gai'don had begun", although I fully realise how unlikely both of hese will be :D.

 

I'm not sure what the first one was, but the second one would be pretty cool. Kinda cliched maybe, but still cool. Though, it'd be fit better for a movie than a book y'know?

[sheikh chilli]

Sheik you really hit some kind of nerve for me >.< Id compare you with people who watch sports on tv and say out loud that they could do it better. Its that other thread aswell...

 

face it. the dark one is dumb and cluless. not much of an enemy to fear. he has done nothing apart from tainting saidin and even that has been negated at the cost of one his own forsaken.

 

 

 

[Seven of Nine]

It's dangerous to underestimate your adversary, though.

[Jameric]

Muad says it best I think.

 

From Messana we know that, a decent chunk of channels are hoping over to the dark side when the last battle comes. And from Taim we know they are going to have a decent supply of male channlers that will do the same. Logain is going to have to re shape the black tower, when its "leadership" jumps sides.

 

Dam is still out there, and who knows what he has up his sleeve, same for Mordin and Shadar. And I dont think we even have near the scope of the size of the Dark Ones army, plus what new toys he has in store (Do any of us really believe they have sat still for an Age without coming up with some new weapons/creatures to unleash devistation with?).

 

Graendal, meh.

 

 

Though I do understand where you are coming from, its just I tend to hold back my judgement due to the fact we have precious little knowledge on what the DO is bringing to the party yet. So far he is content to let the worlds choas make the path that much easier for him before he lowers the boom. As soon as they see it coming together so as to challenge him, he is going to lower the boom.

[Yizun]

 

 

face it. the dark one is dumb and cluless. not much of an enemy to fear. he has done nothing apart from tainting saidin and even that has been negated at the cost of one his own forsaken.

 

 

 

 

Tell that to the hundreds upon hundreds of thousand that died in the first war with the Dark One. Anyone who can beat back the light for that long, plus manage to taint Saidin and cause probably the Breaking is not someone to be underestimated. Also you are forgetting about the thousands of Trollocs and Myddral and whatever other horrific monsters he has stored in the Blight. Even Channelers can be overwhelmed by pure force of numbers.

[water_seeker]

Sheik you really hit some kind of nerve for me >.< Id compare you with people who watch sports on tv and say out loud that they could do it better. Its that other thread aswell...

 

face it. the dark one is dumb and cluless. not much of an enemy to fear. he has done nothing apart from tainting saidin and even that has been negated at the cost of one his own forsaken.

 

 

 

 

Perform an experiment for me...have someone lock you in a box (preferably wood or metal...something you can't just tear through easily) with no way out except for a hole just big enough to stick your finger through...then see what kind of effect you have one the world outside.  ;)

 

Once you get out (without someone letting you out) let us know how it went.

 

NO CHEATING!!  You have to get out on your own or not at all.

[Mr Ares]

You are mistaken is assuming that the Last Battle will be a battle.

The Last Battle isn't a battle? Classic.

[sheikh chilli]

Sheik you really hit some kind of nerve for me >.< Id compare you with people who watch sports on tv and say out loud that they could do it better. Its that other thread aswell...

 

face it. the dark one is dumb and cluless. not much of an enemy to fear. he has done nothing apart from tainting saidin and even that has been negated at the cost of one his own forsaken.

 

 

 

 

Perform an experiment for me...have someone lock you in a box (preferably wood or metal...something you can't just tear through easily) with no way out except for a hole just big enough to stick your finger through...then see what kind of effect you have one the world outside.  ;)

 

Once you get out (without someone letting you out) let us know how it went.

 

NO CHEATING!!  You have to get out on your own or not at all.

 

 

 

 

this is what i would do in this situation.

 

try my level best to access the outside world through that tiny hole. check

 

make contact with my fellowers check

 

tell them to kill and finish off the punk who has the potential to seal me back again check

 

 

continue with breaking down that hole until i am free check

 

 

simple no?

 

 

instead the dark one has the most confusing orders which ofcourse has resulted in him behind the 8 ball. by the time he realises his folly it will be too little too late.

[Monitor]

Of course we cannot know regarding the future. But I think the situation in the KOD moved slowly towards a united front and reduced pro-DO chaos (see my earlier comment on this). The prophecies hints as future non-violent interactions and help between the major parties (Rand, Egwene, and the Seanchan.) As does the storylines of Mat and Egwene, both moving into positions of power where they can help Rand.

 

You do realize that Egwene is still very much a prisoner of the WT and she could be executed at Elaida's whim at any time. Mat is heading to the ToG to rescue Moiraine and he just weakened the Seanchan significantly by killing tens of thousands of their soldiers. Mat and Egwene are currently not in any position to help Rand.

 

The Wise Ones may not know as much as the Aes Sedai and Asha'man but they have already used the power offensively and extensively in battles. There is no shortage of Wise Ones who can channel. Just the Shaido had 400-500. Learning a wave seems extremely quick once you see it. Just look how quickly the other channelers copied Rand when he used new weaves against the trollocs in tear.

 

You do realize that Wise Ones never take part in battle prior to Dumai's Wells so how would they be effective in battle? Your reasoning makes no sense. Also, when you are in the middle of a vicious battle would you take the time to see what your enemy was doing? No. You'd do what you were able to do even if it wasn't that effective.

 

At Dumai's Wells the regular Shaido had the help of their channeling Wise Ones doing their best. Dumai's Wells instead shows that the regular troops are unimportant. The battle was decided between the channelers.

 

They're Wise Ones were not doing their best because they not only hadn't taken part in battle before that but they also barerly channeled before that! Since channelers are only a very small percentage of the population, it is a foolish statemnt to say that armies are unimportant.

 

 

Removed by Luckers: Spoilers.

 

 

Why not? Even if only a few could Travel they take all the other channelers with them. Meaning that the pro-DO channelers could probably nearly always achieve local superiority regarding channeler numbers.

 

Even if he did teach Traveling to the male dreadlords who were strong enough to make them (a very small group), they would be ineffective because they could only transport Dreadlords and Darkfriend armies. Not really useful.

 

Yes, the DO may move troops true the Ways, if those Rand send out will not close them, and accepting the maybe massive casualties from using the Ways. But again, still not useful tactically during a battle.

 

A source for this opinion by Jordan would be nice.

 

How are they not useful?!? They are a quick way to move thousands of troops. Mashadar is not as effective as it once was. Look at how the 100,000 Trollocs and the ones that attacked Tylee seemed to spring out of nowhere. I don't get how you don't think they are extremely useful.

 

Robert Jordan's quote on how Gateways are not the end-all of warfare and how their use can be ineffective:

Good question, though not all of the forces involved could use gateways. (Rafo! Rafo!) Think of the ability to Travel in terms of moving troops via aircraft, and you will begin to get the picture. Even with the largest possible circles, there are limits to the size of gateways and thus limits to the front along which you can move troops out through it, the numbers you can commit simultaneously. Of course, you can use multiple gateways, but each is still only so large and can admit only so many soldiers at a time.

 

So-called front lines were very fluid, but you couldn't fling your forces in anywhere without regard to what would be surrounding them or how you were going to re-supply, reinforce or withdraw them. Although no one has shown it so far in the books, there are ways to interfere with the making of a gateway - and ways to defend against interference - so the battle would take place on many levels. Yes, any area you hold can be attacked by your enemy, and you can attack any area that he holds. (Part of the result was great destruction and a great fall-off in the ability to produce high tech items. By the time the Bore was sealed, soldiers were already much, much more likely to ride horses and carry swords than to ride armored vehicles or aircraft and carry shocklances, which had all become very rare.) But holding an area is not impossible so long as you can successfully disrupt your opponent's attempts to make gateways into it. Even if he manages to get those first soldiers in, if you can disrupt his ability to reinforce, re-supply or withdraw, it becomes another Dien Bien Phu for him. Of course, if you fail, then it becomes Gettysburg or Waterloo, a bloody fight that will be decisive for somebody. At least until the next "decisive" battle is fought. Remember, that designation is always given after the fact, by historians."

 

Yes, Traveling may take some energy. But the few channelers Rand had with during his campaign against the Seanchan in Tear moved quite a lot of troops multiple times and still had some energy left over for offensive channeling. Similarly with the few Channelers Perrin had who could make gateways. Not to mention those channelers who are too weak to open a gateway but who still can use them. Regarding their capacity I think that their large capacity has also been demonstrated in the gateways attack against Illian and for moving Mat's army.

 

That is because Traveling short distances does not require a lot of energy or the need to memorize the area. That is why Rand only took a small force of men. He says it right in PoD. Perrin has only been with two channelers who could make gateways, Neald and Grady, and they were used to transport the troops. Mat's army? The only time they were transported by gateway was when rand sent them to Salidar.

 

Obviously there are always some common tactics like concentrate your forces. But that low-tech and high-tech warfare is very similar is like arguing that a master English writer will quickly become a master Chinese writer because there are similarities between languages.

 

Again a quote from Jordan would be nice. We have some scenes from the Age of Legends, and the soldiers seen when the end of the war was announced was still using high-tech equipment. A source for that the trollocs were not using high-tech equipment would also be nice.

 

That is not a good comparison at all. It would be more like an Modern English Professor becoming an Middle English Professor. They're different but one is the basis of the other and their principles remain the same. Two years would be enough for Demandred to become acclimated. If Demandred is Roedran, it makes sense why he'd be reading Comadrin's book.

 

That quote was on wotmania. I'm not sure where to find the quotes since the website is defunct.

 

EDIT: FOUND THE QUOTE.

 

Q105: In the Age of Legends, the soldiers used shocklances. Were they projectile, energy ..?

 

RJ: Think of it as an … energy weapon. Remember, by the time we get to the Breaking, shocklances are actually in fairly short supply and other devices of that sort. Long before we get to the Breaking the industrial base has been enough destroyed that soldiers are once again using bows and spears and swords because there simply aren’t enough shocklances to go around, nor jocars…and there is no industrial base to provide replacement for them

 

It proves that Demndred was well-versed in "low-tech warfare" rendering that argument moot.

 

Yes, there may be commanders from this age leading the DO's armies. But as a general rule there are more non-darkfriends than darkfriends, so the probability is large that more good generals will be among the Light.

 

As for that, I'm going to need a quote. I believe it is said that during the AoL, half the Aes Sedai were for the Shadow. It's logical to assume half the population then were Darkfriends.

 

As stated previously, the Robert Jordan quote is from before the situation improved in KOD. You may nitpick. But hardly deny that the situation improved in many ways for the Light during KOD.

 

Jordan's quote is from before KoD, but we still haven't seen the Dark One's "surprises." What he said still stands. "the Light has no chance without him, but his presence doesn’t ensure victory, just that the Light has a chance"..."Our boy is game, but he’s wobbly on his legs and bleeding from cuts over his eyes.  Now he has three minutes to pull out his best stuff and deliver the punch of his life."...We're still in the very much same situation. The Light hasn't given its last chance, knock-out punch and the Dark One is still hitting taking shots at it.

Not talking about the situation exactly post-KOD but at the start of TG. Mat and Egwene's storylines are clearly moving towards helping Rand both moving into positions of power. As did Elayne in the KOD. The WO may not have much battle expertise right now but considering how quickly channelers pick up weaves they have seen briefly, as Logain and other did from RAnd during a very heated battle, they can be quickly taught by the WT once its united. Regarding the importance of regular troops, like the 100,000 trollocs or the Shaido regulars, they were simply massacred by channelers and for the Shaido completely unable to close with channelers. Regarding the trolloc wars, if Ishy taught the strongest Dreadlords to Travel, they could take with them all the Dreadlords. Thus a relatively few numbers of Dreadlords, even if outnumbered by WT globally, could usually probably achieve a significant local superiority in channelers. Regarding the ways we do not know how many trollocs died in order for the 100,000 to reach Rand. Regardless, the Ways can certainly be useful for strategic transportation, but they still to limited (few fixed locations, takes time to transport through, Mashadar) to be any was as tactically useful as Traveling during a battle. Regarding the number of darkfriends among army leaders, we do not know, but in the general population darkfriends is certainly a small minority, which indicates that most army leaders will not be darkfriends.

 

Some examples of mass transportation through Gateways:

Rand attacking Tear (nine thousand light horse and fifteen thousand foot)

Rand's Seanchan campaing in Tear (six thousand men)

Mat's band moved to Salidar (six to seven thousand men)

 

Now to the Jordan quotes. 1) He states that it is possible to interfere with Gateways so that while you can not stop any area from being attacked, you can stop further reinforcements. That seems to prevent areas from being permanently captured, but is does not seem to limit hit-and-run Traveling attacks. 2) He states that in the AOL in some cases the technology had regressed at the end of the war. So the Forsaken may have had some experience with low-tech warfare. Still, in TSR, on the day that it was announced that Bore was sealed, we could see that shocklances, armored jo-cards, and hoverflies, were still used by some soldiers. So any experience must have been with somewhat mixed low-tech and high-tech. Furthermore, the War only lasted ten years, so any practical military experience the Forsaken gained of low-tech warfare was very limited compared to decades of exclusive low-tech warfare for the current generals.

 

[Charlz Guybon]

Sheik you really hit some kind of nerve for me >.< Id compare you with people who watch sports on tv and say out loud that they could do it better. Its that other thread aswell...

 

face it. the dark one is dumb and cluless. not much of an enemy to fear. he has done nothing apart from tainting saidin and even that has been negated at the cost of one his own forsaken.

 

 

 

 

Perform an experiment for me...have someone lock you in a box (preferably wood or metal...something you can't just tear through easily) with no way out except for a hole just big enough to stick your finger through...then see what kind of effect you have one the world outside.  ;)

 

Once you get out (without someone letting you out) let us know how it went.

 

NO CHEATING!!  You have to get out on your own or not at all.

 

 

 

 

this is what i would do in this situation.

 

try my level best to access the outside world through that tiny hole. check

 

make contact with my fellowers check

 

tell them to kill and finish off the punk who has the potential to seal me back again check

 

 

continue with breaking down that hole until i am free check

 

 

simple no?

 

 

instead the dark one has the most confusing orders which ofcourse has resulted in him behind the 8 ball. by the time he realises his folly it will be too little too late.

 

I'm 100% sure that Rand needs to be there for the Drak One to completely escape his prison. That's why he prefers not to kill Rand. Of course if Rand does die the Dark One and his minions can still kill every person on earth like in the portal world Rand went to but he still wouldn't be free.

[Monitor]

But that is Deux Ex machinations.

No. It's Deus, considering it is actually a god doing it, but Deus ex Machina is used for solutions that haven't been set up. Shai'tan's powers have been, so unless He's capable of acting on a scale like we haven't seen before, it isn't Deus Ex Machina.

 

Indeed, a Dark One induced famine has been foreshadowed since the very first book.

Again, I am commenting on the military strengths for a military campaign not involving divine-power-class interventions, like the DO killing all the good guys by some form of magic or the Horn killing all the bad guys.