Elayne doesnt like what Rand did in andor

[zebronic]

From WH-Prologue

"Mending the damage Rahvin had

done in Andor might take her entire lifetime even if she managed to live as long as the Kinswomen! Some

Houses would stand aside from supporting her because of the outrages Gaebril had perpetrated in Morgase’s

name, and others because Rand had said he intended to “give” her the throne. She loved the man to her toes,

but burn him for giving voice to that!"

 

Even though Elayne does love Rand,she does blame Rand to some extent for the situation in Andor.While she conveniently forgots that had rand not done what he did in andor ,it would have been very difficult for her remove Rahvin after he established himself in andor while she was busy with other stuff.

 

Removing Rahvin from andor definitely wouldn't have been as easy as tearing rand's banner and removing his army from andor.we can say rand let do what ever she wanted to do in andor once she reached there which rahvin wouldn't have likely done.

She should be grateful to rand for saving Andor from rahvin.This is one part i dont like in Elayne.

 

what you guys think about this

[Luckers]

She's not blaming him for what he did in Andor, she's blaming him for that thoughtless comment. And rightly so. Rand knew enough about politics at that stage to have foreseen how that would play out.

[zebronic]

so what should he have done differently that she would appreciated without any complaining.

and in her POV's she never acknowledge Rand for saving Andor from Rahvin. 

[Luckers]

Not saying that he would 'give' Andor to Elayne.

[Germs]

I don't like Elayne. She's really self-centered most of the time. She has gotten better about it though since she returned to Andor.

[Muad Cheade]

Luckers is right. Rand, by that time, had proven to be quite adept in Daes Dae'mar but as Elayne said, he should not have said he was going to "give her the throne." That basically told the nobles that Rand did not care about their positions/thoughts/House or the entire historical/governmental foundation of Andor.

[Luckers]

It also implied Elayne would be Rand's pet Queen.

[Blackhoof]

that would annoy me. But i notice that not just elayne, but nearly all the female characters are, forgive me for being blunt, mean, sexist, pushy, shrewish, braid-pulling, arrogant, hypocritical, bitches. RJ seriously erred when he wrote the female characters personalities, they are so awful, nothing like real life.

[OptimusPrime]

Not saying that he would 'give' Andor to Elayne.

 

Yes, because it implied that a) it was his to give and b) its not hers by birthright. The first, people know and like Rand less for. The second, people see as an opportunity to move towards the Throne. Rands casual comment hinted that Elayne couldnt take the throne without him, and no matter who he gives it to it sparked peoples ambition. "What? Al'Thors giving a throne away? He cant do that! Not when I have a claim to it!"

[Balefire to da face!]

From WH-Prologue

"Mending the damage Rahvin had

done in Andor might take her entire lifetime even if she managed to live as long as the Kinswomen! Some

Houses would stand aside from supporting her because of the outrages Gaebril had perpetrated in Morgase’s

name, and others because Rand had said he intended to “give” her the throne. She loved the man to her toes,

but burn him for giving voice to that!"

 

Even though Elayne does love Rand,she does blame Rand to some extent for the situation in Andor.While she conveniently forgots that had rand not done what he did in andor ,it would have been very difficult for her remove Rahvin after he established himself in andor while she was busy with other stuff.

 

Removing Rahvin from andor definitely wouldn't have been as easy as tearing rand's banner and removing his army from andor.we can say rand let do what ever she wanted to do in andor once she reached there which rahvin wouldn't have likely done.

She should be grateful to rand for saving Andor from rahvin.This is one part i dont like in Elayne.

 

what you guys think about this

 

While I agree it was a poor choice for Rand, no one has flipped the coin to look at the other side....

 

Does Elayne ever show worry or remorse(or is Rand ever shown begrudging her) that tearing down the banner of the Dragon and removing his army after Rand retook Andor is a sign of huge weakness to the world for the Dragon? Could it not, by itself, encourage rebellion in other lands that he has taken?

 

In which case it falls under the "stop whining because Rand's problems are bigger then your's because he's the frickin savior" catogory. Like I said, Rand was wrong to say it....but I just can't seem to care. Just like the entire Elayne/Andor consolidation as a whole have seemed like so many wasted pages to me. I know Andor is supposed to be important in some way(didn't Elaida foresee it would be "instrumental into the battle with the DO" or something?) but it's still just a piece on the chessboard. One that gets too much attention and is yet another annoying arc where the main character of that particular arc seems to think thier little squabble is more important then Rand or the Last Battle.....

[mb]

The title of this thread seems a bit misleading.

Elayne's only complaint against Rand was him 'giving' her the throne; not his actions in Caemlyn/Andor.

 

Maybe 'restoring' her to the throne might have been more reasonable for Rand to say.

 

[Balefire to da face!]

The title of this thread seems a bit misleading.

Elayne's only complaint against Rand was him 'giving' her the throne; not his actions in Caemlyn/Andor.

 

Maybe 'restoring' her to the throne might have been more reasonable for Rand to say.

 

 

Something like, "I relinquish control of Andor to it's rightful ruler" probably would have been best.....

 

It acknowledges the validity of Elayne's birthright, while not trying to ignore the fact that Rand basically conquered Andor and was the only ruler of any kind it had for a while. Elayne seems to like to go with the "I am the rightful hier, and I was the Queen of Andor right when Morgase died even though I wasn't here....and Rand killed the Forsaken that had taken control of the country....and Rand was the one holding the place together in the absence of any other ruler".

 

Her birthright should be acknowledged, but so should the fact that the Dragon took Andor from the Forsaken and returned it to it's ruler.

[WWWwombat]

From WH-Prologue

"Mending the damage Rahvin had

done in Andor might take her entire lifetime even if she managed to live as long as the Kinswomen! Some

Houses would stand aside from supporting her because of the outrages Gaebril had perpetrated in Morgase’s

name, and others because Rand had said he intended to “give” her the throne. She loved the man to her toes,

but burn him for giving voice to that!"

 

Even though Elayne does love Rand,she does blame Rand to some extent for the situation in Andor.While she conveniently forgots that had rand not done what he did in andor ,it would have been very difficult for her remove Rahvin after he established himself in andor while she was busy with other stuff.

 

Removing Rahvin from andor definitely wouldn't have been as easy as tearing rand's banner and removing his army from andor.we can say rand let do what ever she wanted to do in andor once she reached there which rahvin wouldn't have likely done.

She should be grateful to rand for saving Andor from rahvin.This is one part i dont like in Elayne.

 

what you guys think about this

 

While I agree it was a poor choice for Rand, no one has flipped the coin to look at the other side....

 

Does Elayne ever show worry or remorse(or is Rand ever shown begrudging her) that tearing down the banner of the Dragon and removing his army after Rand retook Andor is a sign of huge weakness to the world for the Dragon? Could it not, by itself, encourage rebellion in other lands that he has taken?

 

In which case it falls under the "stop whining because Rand's problems are bigger then your's because he's the frickin savior" catogory. Like I said, Rand was wrong to say it....but I just can't seem to care. Just like the entire Elayne/Andor consolidation as a whole have seemed like so many wasted pages to me. I know Andor is supposed to be important in some way(didn't Elaida foresee it would be "instrumental into the battle with the DO" or something?) but it's still just a piece on the chessboard. One that gets too much attention and is yet another annoying arc where the main character of that particular arc seems to think thier little squabble is more important then Rand or the Last Battle.....

 

I don't think Rand really cared about her ripping down the flag.  Conquering Andor by just traveling in and balefiring one of the Forsaken makes a pretty srong statement in and of itself.  Not to mention setting up an autonomous school for male channelers in Elayne's back yard sorta shows everyone who the boss is when push comes to shove.  Furthermore, Elayne has a right to be annoyed because Rand knew better by then and therefore it was a careless, stupid mistake.

 

Elaida said the ruling house of Andor would be key to fighting the Dark One.  She of course thinks that to mean Elayne is key but Rand and Luc are both actually from House Mantear, the previous ruling house, so it would seem her foretelling refers to both Trakand and Mantear.  Either way, the foretelling refers to people more than a place in my opinion.

[buckeyebull64]

Rand's biggest mistake in Andor was the he got hung up on giving it to Elayne, not that he said so.  Any other nation, he would have appointed a steward and gone out to do more Dragon Reborny things.  Who, you ask? Ol' buddy Perrin of course, once he showed.  that would leave Rand himself to go to Tear and draw Sammy's eyes.

[WWWwombat]

Rand's biggest mistake in Andor was the he got hung up on giving it to Elayne, not that he said so.  Any other nation, he would have appointed a steward and gone out to do more Dragon Reborny things.  Who, you ask? Ol' buddy Perrin of course, once he showed.  that would leave Rand himself to go to Tear and draw Sammy's eyes.

 

Rand stayed a while in Tear and Cairhien before appointing stewards and leaving.  Sure he cared more about Andor, but I don't think he lost track of anything while he was there.  He was hopping around a lot and waiting for his armies to be ready to attack Sammael.  I mean can't the guy get some time after killing one of the Forsaken before he immediately goes on to the next?  Also, I really don't think Perrin would have welcomed or done well at the job of steward.  Faile would have helped a lot, but Perrin really isn't ready to lead more than the Two Rivers until he goes on his trip to find Masema imo.

[DemandredFO]

Maybe Rand shouldn't exactly said give her but the birthright rephrase would have been equally bad.  It really was rands to give, no one else could have killed Rahvin when Rand did.  Morgase probably would have actually been dead if Rand hadn't acted and mayhaps Elayne too.  Besides, Rand was getting ready for Tarmon Gaidon, it should have been enough that he didn't send his Aiel and Legion of the Dragon to conquer all of Andor.

[buckeyebull64]

That's my point:  Rand didn't want to go to Andor, and at that point he'd taken on four nations (including Aeil) without a firm grasp of any.  He had no steward in Tear, he spent most of his time in Caihein even with Berelain, and now he's got Andor as a side-effect of avenging Morgase.  If he did this, he could trust Perrin in Andor, Berlain in Caihein, the chiefs with the Aeil, and he himself would have been in Tear.  It wouldn't nessissarily mean he moves faster, but he's more politically sound.

 

I say Perrin becasue he was the only one in Andor that he could have trusted to do it.  And I think givin the choice between going to war and governing Andor, Perrin would take Andor every day of the week and twice on Bel Tine.  He may not have been ready for it, but Rand wouldn't know that.

[wavemistresstrammell]

While I agree it was a poor choice for Rand, no one has flipped the coin to look at the other side....

 

Does Elayne ever show worry or remorse(or is Rand ever shown begrudging her) that tearing down the banner of the Dragon and removing his army after Rand retook Andor is a sign of huge weakness to the world for the Dragon? Could it not, by itself, encourage rebellion in other lands that he has taken?

 

In which case it falls under the "stop whining because Rand's problems are bigger then your's because he's the frickin savior" catogory. Like I said, Rand was wrong to say it....but I just can't seem to care. Just like the entire Elayne/Andor consolidation as a whole have seemed like so many wasted pages to me. I know Andor is supposed to be important in some way(didn't Elaida foresee it would be "instrumental into the battle with the DO" or something?) but it's still just a piece on the chessboard. One that gets too much attention and is yet another annoying arc where the main character of that particular arc seems to think thier little squabble is more important then Rand or the Last Battle.....

 

I agree, Rand was wrong to say that, but she could have been a little less childish about the whole thing.

 

Elaida does have a fortelling about Andor.. it's in one of her POV's but I can't remember for the life of me which bok it's in.

[zebronic]

Elaida does have a fortelling about Andor.. it's in one of her POV's but I can't remember for the life of me which bok it's in.

 

its in TSR chapter 1

 

 

 

Something like, "I relinquish control of Andor to it's rightful ruler" probably would have been best.....

 

It acknowledges the validity of Elayne's birthright, while not trying to ignore the fact that Rand basically conquered Andor and was the only ruler of any kind it had for a while. Elayne seems to like to go with the "I am the rightful hier, and I was the Queen of Andor right when Morgase died even though I wasn't here....and Rand killed the Forsaken that had taken control of the country....and Rand was the one holding the place together in the absence of any other ruler".

 

Her birthright should be acknowledged, but so should the fact that the Dragon took Andor from the Forsaken and returned it to it's ruler.

 

ya maybe thats the thing i want to see in Elayne POV and her thanking to Rand(ofcourse there are lot of stuff they want to do when they are together)-but seriously damn no one appreciates what rand does at least not without complaint.

[Luckers]

The title of this thread seems a bit misleading.

Elayne's only complaint against Rand was him 'giving' her the throne; not his actions in Caemlyn/Andor.

 

Maybe 'restoring' her to the throne might have been more reasonable for Rand to say.

 

 

Something like, "I relinquish control of Andor to it's rightful ruler" probably would have been best.....

 

It acknowledges the validity of Elayne's birthright, while not trying to ignore the fact that Rand basically conquered Andor and was the only ruler of any kind it had for a while. Elayne seems to like to go with the "I am the rightful hier, and I was the Queen of Andor right when Morgase died even though I wasn't here....and Rand killed the Forsaken that had taken control of the country....and Rand was the one holding the place together in the absence of any other ruler".

 

Her birthright should be acknowledged, but so should the fact that the Dragon took Andor from the Forsaken and returned it to it's ruler.

 

Even just "I recognise that Elayne is the rightful air." He could even have added after that "and I support her." without it being as damaging as what he said. As long as he acknowledged that he was supporting her because she had the right, rather than that he wanted her to rule (implying she'd rule on behalf of him).

 

 

[Arkelias]

Elayne is a spoiled, whiny bitch.  Look at the way she treated Mat, and listen to her internal monologue about Rand.  She constantly talks about how naive he is, but lets examine her actions:

 

She arrives in Caemlyn after making the WORST deal I have ever heard of with the Seafolk.  To the point where she obviously should never go anywhere near politics, because my dead cat could have made a better deal.

 

She steps into Andor and immediately hamstrings the Dragon Reborn.  Rebellion is fermenting in Cahrehein and Tear, and she undercuts Rand by kicking his forces out of Caemlyn and removing his flags.  This further weakens his position, and would make other rulers consider rebellion.

 

She has sex with him and (of course) gets pregnant after the first time.  She puts it about that Melar is the father.  HELLLOOOO.  The noble houses don't want to follow her, because they worry that she'll be a slut who gives over everything for love of a man.

 

We know about Rahvin, but they don't believe it.  They think Morgase was just a love sotted woman.  Now Elayne is spreading rumors that she's sleeping with the treacherous captain of her guards.  How does that make her any different than Morgase in her eyes, and how is that an intelligent decision?

 

She could simply have taken precautions about getting pregnant.  As much as she wants babies, this is NOT the time for her to be pregnant and shows a clear lapse in judgement.

 

I agree with the earlier poster that nearly all of RJs women are whiny, arrogant, sexist and spend most of their time undercutting the men in their lives.  Elayne takes the cake in this regard.

 

It wouldn't have been possible for her to even have a chance at the throne if Rand hadn't paved the way for her.  Rather than gratitude all we see from her is annoyance.

[Muad Cheade]

Elayne is a spoiled, whiny bitch.  Look at the way she treated Mat, and listen to her internal monologue about Rand.  She constantly talks about how naive he is, but lets examine her actions:

 

For one, Mat is her subject as he lives in Andor so she would be technically right in ordering him around. She's a noble/Daughter-Heir and an Aes Sedai. How could she not be even a little arrogant? As for Rand's naivete...Was she lying? No. Many of the characters noted how naive Rand was. However, now they miss the man he was before he became hard as steel.

 

She arrives in Caemlyn after making the WORST deal I have ever heard of with the Seafolk.  To the point where she obviously should never go anywhere near politics, because my dead cat could have made a better deal.

 

That is true. Egwene berates them a couple times about it. I haven't read that part recently, but I'm sure it was probably the best they could do under the circumstances. Also, two experienced Aes sedai (Merana and Rafela) made a bargain for rand that was hardly better (Merana's of the Gray Ajah who deal specifically in negotiations!). And judging by the methods the Sea Folk used to intimidate them, I don't blame it. Before you attack Elayne, Nynaeve, Merana and Rafela, try putting yourself in their positions facing the Sea Folk who are hardly ever intimidated.

 

She steps into Andor and immediately hamstrings the Dragon Reborn.  Rebellion is fermenting in Cahrehein and Tear, and she undercuts Rand by kicking his forces out of Caemlyn and removing his flags.  This further weakens his position, and would make other rulers consider rebellion.

 

She's trying to prove that she doesn't need Rand's support to be Queen. Rand already bungled things by saying he was "giving her the throne." She was trying to prove herself independent. And as I recall, no other lands rebelled from Rand after she did that. I doubt we had a PoV saying that that move emasculated him.

 

She has sex with him and (of course) gets pregnant after the first time.  She puts it about that Melar is the father.  HELLLOOOO.  The noble houses don't want to follow her, because they worry that she'll be a slut who gives over everything for love of a man.

 

Actually, the noble houses that are in opposition to her are against her because of the actions her mother did under Gaebril's/Rahvin's influence and Rand's comment about giving Elayne the throne.

 

Also, she doesn't put out the rumor that Mellar is the father. She just doesn't squash it. She even gives her reasoning for it (which is quite smart and something I'd do). She's trying to keep her children safe from the Shadow. If you knew the future Queen of Andor was bearing the Dragon Reborn's children would you not try to take her out? That's why it was better for everyone to think the children were just some random guard's.

 

We know about Rahvin, but they don't believe it.  They think Morgase was just a love sotted woman.  Now Elayne is spreading rumors that she's sleeping with the treacherous captain of her guards.  How does that make her any different than Morgase in her eyes, and how is that an intelligent decision?

 

Okay...That's nothing new. The Illian's still don't believe Lord Brend was Sammael nor do the Tairens believe that Lord Samon was Be'lal. I even doubt the Seanchan will believe that Semihrage was Anath. Nothing new. Look above for my response to Elayne and Mellar.

 

She could simply have taken precautions about getting pregnant.  As much as she wants babies, this is NOT the time for her to be pregnant and shows a clear lapse in judgement.

 

If the man you loved was about to die in less than a year, would you not want to bear his children etc? Also, Min and Aviendha did not use contraceptives when they were with Rand so if they got pregnant would those be lapses of judgement?

 

I agree with the earlier poster that nearly all of RJs women are whiny, arrogant, sexist and spend most of their time undercutting the men in their lives.  Elayne takes the cake in this regard.

 

Okay...Well, I can see where you're coming from but you're comparing their behavior to our world. Our world is patriarchal aka man-centered. In theirs, women wield large amounts of power with ones who can channel being the equivalent of kings and queens. In Randland, they are respected and meant to be protected...

 

It wouldn't have been possible for her to even have a chance at the throne if Rand hadn't paved the way for her.  Rather than gratitude all we see from her is annoyance.

 

Well, if Rand had left Rahvin and concentrated on Sammael and Illian first, things would have definitely turned out differently. He might have been able to take Altara and Amadacia right after that. That would not only bind the Salidar Aes Sedai to him but also Morgase would be at the Fortress of Light so Elayne would not need to fight a civil war as Morgase would still be Queen. But the Wheel weaves and we are all just mere threads in the Pattern.

[Arkelias]

For one, Mat is her subject as he lives in Andor so she would be technically right in ordering him around. She's a noble/Daughter-Heir and an Aes Sedai. How could she not be even a little arrogant? As for Rand's naivete...Was she lying? No. Many of the characters noted how naive Rand was. However, now they miss the man he was before he became hard as steel.

 

You're missing the point.  She went WAY beyond a little arrogant.  Mat faced the Black Ajah and the forsaken to get her out of prison, and all he got for his trouble was an earful of grief.  Clearly she was in the wrong, as was proved when Birgette and Aviendha got word of it.  There was a reason she was forced to apologize.

 

My point about Rand isn't that he isn't naive.  It's that Elayne isn't any better and makes mistakes constantly.  The differences is that Rand loves Elayne and thinks fondly of her.  Elayne thinks of Rand like someone's slow cousin who needs to wear a bib or he'll drool on himself.

 

At least give Rand a little credit for his accomplishments.  He's united more of the world than anyone outside of Artur Hawkwing.  I'd say he's doing a pretty decent job so far.

 

That is true. Egwene berates them a couple times about it. I haven't read that part recently, but I'm sure it was probably the best they could do under the circumstances. Also, two experienced Aes sedai (Merana and Rafela) made a bargain for rand that was hardly better (Merana's of the Gray Ajah who deal specifically in negotiations!). And judging by the methods the Sea Folk used to intimidate them, I don't blame it. Before you attack Elayne, Nynaeve, Merana and Rafela, try putting yourself in their positions facing the Sea Folk who are hardly ever intimidated.

 

I have read it recently.  Merana and Rafela did WAY better than Elayne and Nyneave.  What Elayne and Nyneave got was help in using the bowl of winds.  Their logic?  They didn't have time to bring the bowl back to Egwene.  This makes no sense as they could make a gateway and be there in minutes.

 

What did they give up?  Twenty Aes Sedai to teach the windfinders forever.  When one leaves they must be replaced.  They also gave up the bowl itself.  All for help they didnt' need had they simply taken the bowl back to the rebels in Salidar.

 

Contrast that to the deal Merana made.  They gave up a square mile of land in every city Rand controls, and he has to come visit them when they call but not more than twice in five years.  In exchange Rand gets all the ships he wants whenever he wants for any reason he wants.  That seems like a much better deal to me.

 

Clear failure on Elayne's part, especially since she should have been the primary negotiator.  Nyneave is a village woman, but Elayne's trained in politics and negotiation.  She shouldn't have been intimidated, or if she was should still have been smart enough not to make that deal.

 

She's trying to prove that she doesn't need Rand's support to be Queen. Rand already bungled things by saying he was "giving her the throne." She was trying to prove herself independent. And as I recall, no other lands rebelled from Rand after she did that. I doubt we had a PoV saying that that move emasculated him.

 

Right, but she's putting the problems of her nation ahead of the problems of the whole world.  Tarmon Gaidon is coming and she has shown no open support for Rand.  This is going to terrify many of the nobles who may fear that Rand will return since Elayne has clearly rejected him.  The whole world is aware of that.

 

Also, Tear goes into open rebellion after she makes this claim, and Cairehien is moving in that direction.  We don't have a PoV saying that it emasculated him, but we don't need one.  That's common sense based on the politics as demonstrated in the world.  We also have Rand's reaction, and he feels betrayed.

 

Actually, the noble houses that are in opposition to her are against her because of the actions her mother did under Gaebril's/Rahvin's influence and Rand's comment about giving Elayne the throne.

 

That's my whole point.  While under Gaebril's influence Morgase acted like a love sotted fool who doted over Rahvin and made really bad decision after really bad decision.  She had some of her closest supporters flogged for now reason.  When her 18 year old daughter shows up and gets knocked up within weeks of returning home why would they assume she's any different?  Would you?

 

Also, she doesn't put out the rumor that Mellar is the father. She just doesn't squash it. She even gives her reasoning for it (which is quite smart and something I'd do). She's trying to keep her children safe from the Shadow. If you knew the future Queen of Andor was bearing the Dragon Reborn's children would you not try to take her out? That's why it was better for everyone to think the children were just some random guard's.

 

She didn't start the rumor, but allowing it to survive damages her position.  Again, if people think she is just like Morgase in her final year they will not crown her.  Allowing them to believe she's with child WHILE UNMARRIED is a big deal.  As you pointed out this isn't our world.  In our world that's not a big deal.  In RJs world child birth out of wedlock IS a big deal, especially from a potential queen.  Even more so when the most common rumor says its from Melar.  That makes the child a bastard.

 

This does keep her children safe, but it alienates nobles.  They still remember Morgase, and this paints Elayne as no different than her mother.  Why would people who were flogged at Morgase's whim crown her flipskirt daughter?  And they WOULD see her as a flipskirt.

 

If the man you loved was about to die in less than a year, would you not want to bear his children etc? Also, Min and Aviendha did not use contraceptives when they were with Rand so if they got pregnant would those be lapses of judgement?

 

You're thinking with your heart.  Elayne can't afford to do that, because she is a queen.  She must think with her head, as she often reminds the reader.  Neither Min nor Aviendha are queens.  Either could bear a child without causing the problems that it does for Elayne.  Its not a valid comparison.

 

She acted rashly and in her own interests, not those of Andor, when she slept with Rand.  SHE wanted it so she took it.  That was selfish on her part, and not very becoming of a queen who loves her nation.  This proves my point about her being spoiled.  She does what she wants and consequeces be damned.  How does this make her any less naive than Rand? She didn't consider the consequences of her actions.

 

Okay...Well, I can see where you're coming from but you're comparing their behavior to our world. Our world is patriarchal aka man-centered. In theirs, women wield large amounts of power with ones who can channel being the equivalent of kings and queens. In Randland, they are respected and meant to be protected...

 

I don't see what this has to do with anything.  Would you mind explaining please?  I agree with this part I just don't get what it has to do with my post =X

 

 

Well, if Rand had left Rahvin and concentrated on Sammael and Illian first, things would have definitely turned out differently. He might have been able to take Altara and Amadacia right after that. That would not only bind the Salidar Aes Sedai to him but also Morgase would be at the Fortress of Light so Elayne would not need to fight a civil war as Morgase would still be Queen. But the Wheel weaves and we are all just mere threads in the Pattern.

 

He might have, but he'd not have Andor and Gaebril would have been a knife at his back the whole time.  How would it have bound the Aes Sedai to him?  They left Altara and headed into Andor, which he now controls.  He knew where they were the whole time and could have come after them at any point.  He didn't.  Taking Altara would not have changed that. 

 

Are you seriously arguing that Rand should have known about Morgase being alive in Altara?  You have the same attitude Elayne does.  Its like anything a man does to help has to be discounted, because a man couldn't possibly make an intelligent decision without first consulting a woman =p

 

He removed a forsaken from the throne of Andor and you think he should have left the man there?  I just don't get that o.o

 

 

[Shard]

Not saying that he would 'give' Andor to Elayne.

 

Yes, because it implied that a) it was his to give and b) its not hers by birthright. The first, people know and like Rand less for. The second, people see as an opportunity to move towards the Throne. Rands casual comment hinted that Elayne couldnt take the throne without him, and no matter who he gives it to it sparked peoples ambition. "What? Al'Thors giving a throne away? He cant do that! Not when I have a claim to it!"

 

What phrase SHOULD he have said? Because I can't think of any. Technically he does have claim being the son of Tigraine and having removed Lord Gabriel from being King of Andor. I really just feel bad for Rand he was screwed no matter what he did in Andor, at least Dylin didn't treat him like crap for it.

[Rinkai]

that would annoy me. But i notice that not just elayne, but nearly all the female characters are, forgive me for being blunt, mean, sexist, pushy, shrewish, braid-pulling, arrogant, hypocritical, bitches. RJ seriously erred when he wrote the female characters personalities, they are so awful, nothing like real life.

 

Wow. At least some of the balls to say it. I wouldn't go far as to say that RJ erred, but I don't enjoy reading the female POV's as much as the male's on average. I'd say Min is the exception to the rule. Also, Elayne is bad but Nyneave is MUCH worse.