Spelling and Pronunciation

[demonspawn]

My problem, when pronouncing names in books of the fantasy genre, is I tend to follow the guide set in the foreword in Lord of the Rings. Also it sort of follows pronounciations in Spanish. You know...

 

Sauron = Sah-oo-Ron... NOT Saw-ron

 

Each letter is vocalised, thus Taim, to me, is Tah-eem. not Time or anything like that. Talmanes would be Tal-Mah-Nez.

 

As people have said, when you read and pronounce names as you first encounter them in a book, it is difficult to get that version out of your head. So, why on earth have the pronounciations at the end of the book? T'would be much easier if there were some examples at the beginning, especially for place names.

 

And it is Al-oo-min-ee-um... Not, I repeat NOT!!! Al-oo-min-um.

[Elgee]

Demon, you can't even pronounce English  ;D

 

And where's your proof about aloooominimum?

[demonspawn]

Demon, you can't even pronounce English  ;D

 

And where's your proof about aloooominimum?

 

Proof? You want proof? Well, I have my sources from the internet so it must be true!

 

PROOF==> HERE BE PROOF!

 

It is clearly stated in the last line there that it is pronounced Al-oo-min-ee-um... So there!

[Achoo]

Unless you are making a joke, demonspawn, that link isn't working. It redirects to this exact webpage and is therefore useless. If you are joking, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

Also, according to Funk & Wagnalls College Dictionary, al-oo-min-num is appropiate in many Polenesian, and Asian countries.

 

Elgee

I know English must be one of the most difficult languages to learn, given its convoluted and contradictory spelling rules, but surely if you see that most other people do not spell some words they way you do, you would check up on it?

 

In defense of English, it did have a rough life. It was a simple German language, and then there were Norse and Norman invasion, not to mention Latin infiltration. So much trauma early in life is bound to give a language issues. At least there are no arbitrary genders assigned to nouns; adjectives are so much easier in English.

 

As for spelling, see if you can guess which words these are:

Ghoti

Ldehg

Ichan

They are everyday words spelt differently than usual.

 

[Roxinos]

Un less you are making a joke, demonspawn, that link isn't working. It redirects to this exact webpage and is therefore useless. If you are joking, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

It links back to this thread. Specifically, to demonspawn's previous post.

[Mr Ares]

Sauron = Sah-oo-Ron... NOT Saw-ron

Both of those are wrong. Au would be pronounced ow, as in town, according to JRRT's pronunciation guides. So Sauron - Sow-ron, Glaurung - Glow-rung, Smaug - Smowg.

[arkinia]

As for spelling, see if you can guess which words these are:

Ghoti

Ldehg

Ichan

They are everyday words spelt differently than usual.

Goat

Lady

Icon

 

WHAT NOW

[demonspawn]

Sauron = Sah-oo-Ron... NOT Saw-ron

Both of those are wrong. Au would be pronounced ow, as in town, according to JRRT's pronunciation guides. So Sauron - Sow-ron, Glaurung - Glow-rung, Smaug - Smowg.

 

That was a drawn-out version for Americans who would start pronouncing it So-ron ;) Sow being pronounced as in "sow the seeds of love" Almost like Samwise Gamgee enunciating Poe-Tay-Toe for the benefit of Gollum.

 

Now, I am in no way insinuating that I am a hobbit and that all Americans are Gollum before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion! :-\

[The Doctor]

Arkinia, how'd you figure that out? And I was thinking Goatee, as in the beard, but didan't even have a clue to the other 2.

[arkinia]

Oh I don't even know if I am correct. I just have a creative mind!

[luftstark]

English does have it wierds spelling rules (or lack of). But grammar wise it's not half as bad as most of the Latin languages... i mean.. try learning portuguese (my native language) and you will see what a crazy grammar mean.

 

Not talking about grafic accents, like à á ã â ä ... those make spelling words in portuguese hell!!!

 

and by not being a native speaker, i do tend to say RJ words in a wierd way. More in the way that i have to say every letter (why the hell you guys don't speak some letters you write down? that's the most crazy aspect of english)

 

for me, the vocals have different sounds, like that:

 

portuguese version - english version

a=i

e=a

i=ee

o=o

u=oo

 

English Version - Portuguese Version

 

a=ei

e=i

i=ai

o=ou

u=iu

 

it's just crazy for me to speak words like Aiel .. i speak: "I-ee-AL" .. or like Saidin - "si-DEEN"

[Roxinos]

The thing is that when you're saying words that RJ invented, you're not using English pronunciation, you're using the pronunciation that he has declared.

[Elgee]

And what we're saying is that it doesn't help much, because we are perceiving it from what that would sound like in our native tongues.

 

 

First entry in The Eye of the World:

 

Adan, Heran (ay-DAN, HEH-ran)

 

How the hell do you think that's pronounced based on the pronunciation guide?

 

 

ay-Dan - not sure - ay as in eye, or ay as in the ei in eight? -Dan as in done

 

HEH-ran - He as in hefty, ran as in done

 

See?  ;D

[Mr Ares]

Sauron = Sah-oo-Ron... NOT Saw-ron

Both of those are wrong. Au would be pronounced ow, as in town, according to JRRT's pronunciation guides. So Sauron - Sow-ron, Glaurung - Glow-rung, Smaug - Smowg.

That was a drawn-out version for Americans who would start pronouncing it So-ron ;) Sow being pronounced as in "sow the seeds of love" Almost like Samwise Gamgee enunciating Poe-Tay-Toe for the benefit of Gollum.

As opposed to sow, as in a female badger/pig/bear. When it rhymes with town (unless you pronounce that to rhyme with tone...).

[dilbert719]

As for spelling, see if you can guess which words these are:

Ghoti

Ldehg

Ichan

They are everyday words spelt differently than usual.

 

I don't know the last two, but ghoti is 'fish'.

 

gh - pronounced as in "rough"

o - pronounced as in "women"

ti - pronounced as in "motion"

 

--

 

On the original topic of the thread, I had terrible trouble retraining myself on pronunciation in these books, because just about every phonetic assumption I made was different from the one RJ made when writing. I've managed to correct myself on Cairhien (used to be 'CARE-heen' to me), Egwene (which I still every now and again pronounce as 'e-GWEEN' rather than 'e-GWAIN') and several others, but I can't bring myself to put the emPHASis on the correct sylLABLEs. For example, I invariably say nigh-NEEV and eyes SED-ai, rather than NIGH-neev and EYES sed-AI. It's almost a complete inversion, and I simply can't train myself out of it. It sounds too wrong to my ear.

 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who simply can't nail these down. Oh, and someone mentioned Siuan. Also tough, because I tend to pronounce it with a "sh" sound at the beginning, so it comes out closer to "schwa" than "swan".

[Achoo]

The 'ghoti' is fish.

 

'Ldehg' is 'duck'

'Ld' as in 'should, 'e' as in 'paper, 'h' silent as in 'knight' and g as in 'dug'

 

'Ichan' is 'Asian'

'I' as in finite, 'ch' as in 'chimera' and 'an' as in the original spelling.

 

I pronounce Siuan as See-WAN ('a' like in 'awe')

[Roxinos]

Ghoti is valid....

 

The other two? No. Not sure where you got them. I mean, you type "ghoti" into Google and you get the wiki article on the construct. You type the other two and there's nothing.

 

The "u" in "duck" and the "e" in "paper" sound different. The "g" in "dug" sounds nothing like the "ck" in "duck."

 

Also, the second "i" in "finite" does not sound like the "a" in "Asian." It sounds like the "i" in "nitrite" or "bromide." And the "ch" in "chimera" does not sound like the "si" in "Asian." It sounds like the "k" in "Mortal Kombat."

 

Did you try making those other two up? Or did you actually get them from somewhere? Because those are two pretty big fails.

[Nightstrike]

I'm likely to pronounciate the WoT words "kind of like" the english pronunciation (sometimes more like swedish, I think). I don't care much about it. Whatever suits me best is the "correct" pronunciation, as far as I'm concerned.

[Cillian]

You should come to my neck of the woods.  We have a town nearby named Conetoe.  Pronounced "Kah-NEE-tah".

 

hahaha, If I ever happen upon that town I will deliberately pronounce it "Cone-toe". Cone as in - traffic cone, Toe as in - those wiggly things on the ends of your feet.

[Silmarien]

At the beginning i've always read most of all like Elvish words or old English and Welsh, u know so marked, like Italian. Except some clear names tipically english, like Rand, Mat ecc

English people will laugh knowing i pronounced Nynaeve "NE(like "Ignorant)-NA(like "Alas")-EV"(like "End")  :D :D :D

 

After have seen the guide i was a bit shocked seeing how many things i wronged LOL And now i use the correct terms even if sometimes i prefer my old pronunciation, like "ta'veren" i refuse say "ta-vEEren" i prefer say "e" as in "End".

It sounds more fantasy pronounce invented words in a marked way (like Tolkien use for example) in my opinion. And leave what it seems more English in English!