the Gay Relationships in TWoT

[RobertAlexWillis]

Never apologise pre-emptively.

 

LOL ... don't you mean "Never apologize at all"?

[Builder]

That mentality could get you beaten up, or worse even get you killed RAW. Just wanted to say that.

[RobertAlexWillis]

First of all, I wasn't talking about myself.  I am on record here as having apologized, on more than one occasion.

 

Second, bring it.  I haven't met a fight yet that I didn't enjoy and win.

[Roxinos]

Pfft. I want to pit you and Ares in a cockfighting ring.

 

Anyone wanna bet who'd win?

[CUBAREY]

Do you really want to be friends with bigots? Because those are the sorts of people who'd be offended by you pointing out that there is homosexuality in this series. Never apologise pre-emptively. If someone is offended, and you think they have good grounds to be, than you admit you were wrong, not before. By apologising, you were admitting that you were wrong to potentially cause offence by pointing out that something that is in the series is in the series - that you were wrong to start this thread.

 

Mr Ares, someone while acknowledging that there is homosexuality in the series, might still feel oncomfortible in discussing it without being a bigot. Simply because someone may have certain moral objections to certain sexual acts does not make them bigots. A thoughtful person when bringing up a subject that may cause distress to others is therefore justified in saying he was not attempting to offend anyone by bringing up the subject.

 

 

[Roxinos]

Simply because someone may have certain moral objections to certain sexual acts does not make them bigots.

 

Certain moral objections to the point where even talking about it is a level of "uncomfortableness" which borders pretty heavily on bigotry. It's a fine line.

 

A thoughtful person when bringing up a subject that may cause distress to others is therefore justified in saying he was not attempting to offend anyone by bringing up the subject.

 

Saying, "I was not trying to offend anyone," and saying, "Sorry if I offended you," are not exactly the same. Apologizing puts you in a position that at least implicitly indicates that you believe it is something to apologize for. And, frankly, offending someone who becomes uncomfortable at the mere mention of homosexuality is something that no one should have to apologize for.

[Builder]

I'm not gonna fight, but I think I could take you Robert.

[Roxinos]

Ready?

 

FIGHT!

 

*insert Mortal Kombat theme*

[Builder]

Oh please. He's probably gonna say that he trains some ancient fighting sport. These kinds of discussions can't be won in cyberspace. The two parts actually have to fight IRL.

[Dark Justice]

To Roxi:

awh.. I was gonna write something similar.. But you beat me to it...

[arkinia]

It's not most peoples' fault if they find discussing homosexuality uncomfortable, they didn't choose to be brought up as bigots. I guess I just don't let other peoples' downfalls HINDER MY POLITENESS.

 

But, if you it makes you all feel better: !@#$ you all, I hope your offended and I'm not apologizing.

Much love.

[Roxinos]

I disagree. Just as long as both parties obey Weirgraf's Laws of Dueling, it should be fine.

 

http://idea.yoll.net/works/rpgs/guides/weirrpg.html

 

It's not most peoples' fault if they find discussing homosexuality uncomfortable, they didn't choose to be brought up as bigots.

 

Haha! I hope you're kidding.

 

"It's not my fault I beat the crap out of my kids, officer. When I was raised, my parents beat the crap out of me!"

 

!@#$ you all, I hope your offended and I'm not apologizing.

Much love.

 

<3

[Shard]

I thought RAW meant a verbal debate the kind that usually happens here. Like come up with a different theory Builder and start a new thread for it to fight RAW over. I'm sure he'll check it out. *heh*

[Roxinos]

awh.. I was gonna write something similar.. But you beat me to it...

 

It's 'cause I rock. I've always been awesome at this crap.

 

I thought RAW meant a verbal debate the kind that usually happens here.

 

I don't think so...

 

I hope not...

 

It deflates the Mortal Kombat theme that's currently playing here.

[Dark Justice]

So, since I wanted to write almost the same, you admitt I rock aswell?

[Charlz Guybon]

The smuggler who takes Nynaeve and Elayne to Salidar might be homosexual.

 

Remember that guy?  The behavior is not stereotypically homosexual, but relationships are put on their heads in Randland.  Just because he's married doesn't mean he isn't homosexual.

Historically most homosexual did marry and either carried out affairs on the side or restrain themselves totally from indulging. This was because of the far reaching societal disapproval that existed.

[Dark Justice]

yup. Even Oscar Wilde had a wife and children. Later on he was thrown in jail for homosexuality...

[Builder]

Only a fool would not see that Oscar was gay:

 

 

Weird that he became Catholic right before he died. Isn't Catholicism very against homosexuality?

[Dark Justice]

Well.. he was gay. But he did throw off the law by having a wife and children.. (for a while...)

[Mr Ares]

Never apologise pre-emptively.

LOL ... don't you mean "Never apologize at all"?

Well, maybe you should if you're wrong. It's just that I'm never wrong.

 

Simply because someone may have certain moral objections to certain sexual acts does not make them bigots.

 

Certain moral objections to the point where even talking about it is a level of "uncomfortableness" which borders pretty heavily on bigotry. It's a fine line.

 

A thoughtful person when bringing up a subject that may cause distress to others is therefore justified in saying he was not attempting to offend anyone by bringing up the subject.

 

Saying, "I was not trying to offend anyone," and saying, "Sorry if I offended you," are not exactly the same. Apologizing puts you in a position that at least implicitly indicates that you believe it is something to apologize for. And, frankly, offending someone who becomes uncomfortable at the mere mention of homosexuality is something that no one should have to apologize for.

Agreed. Also, making people uncomfartable can be a good thing, as you can force people to think about their beliefs, and thus change them.

 

It's not most peoples' fault if they find discussing homosexuality uncomfortable, they didn't choose to be brought up as bigots. I guess I just don't let other peoples' downfalls HINDER MY POLITENESS.

Not their fault if they're uncomfortable? Whose fault would it be then? And it is not your politeness which is at issue, as one can be polite without admitting one is wrong. If people are made uncomfortable, so much the better. Confront it, and don't think you're wrong for confronting it. Or maybe gay people should just go and hide, so as not to make "right thinking" people uncomfortable? The dictates of politeness would have been served by you saying you had no intention of offending anyone, without you needing to go so far as to admit you were in the wrong for bringing it up.

But, if you it makes you all feel better: !@#$ you all, I hope your offended and I'm not apologizing.

And all is right with the world...

 

So, since I wanted to write almost the same, you admitt I rock aswell?

But not as much, as Roxinos got there first.

[Raeyn]

 

It should be added, for the record, that the late Mr. Jordan was quite capable of writing some right naughty bits - all you need to do to verify that is find one of the Fallon trilogy books, which her wrote under the pen name of Reagan O'Neal.  As it's historical fiction romance, it's only fitting that there's some bodice-busting, as it were. ;) 

 

But anyways, yes... man can write it, and it can make you blush.  But I'm glad that he didn't feel the need to lace his masterwork with all sorts of naughtery - high fiction that's a bit too on the steamy side loses something; his use of insinuation and subtlety added much more than any rogering ever could. *nods firmly*

 

 

[arkinia]

But anyways, yes... man can write it, and it can make you blush.  But I'm glad that he didn't feel the need to lace his masterwork with all sorts of naughtery - high fiction that's a bit too on the steamy side loses something; his use of insinuation and subtlety added much more than any rogering ever could. *nods firmly*

Agreed. Jordan I think hits it right on the head when it comes to the more sensual scenes in tWoT. You get the right feeling about what is going on while if he went any further it'd probably be gross, that is, if it's not what you're looking for specifically in the series (unless the cover of LoC is what sparked your interest, then you might be disappointed :P).

[Builder]

I wonder why there are no gay parades in Randland.

[arkinia]

Oh, I'm sure there are. Our characters probably just haven't had the privilege of recognizing one for us. We have read about some pretty audacious local festivities.

[CUBAREY]

Certain moral objections to the point where even talking about it is a level of "uncomfortableness" which borders pretty heavily on bigotry. It's a fine line.

 

It would be one thing to discuss the topic in a thread centering on morality, religion, or human rights its I think might be very different while discussing a fantasy series. For my part I am neither offended or put-off by the discusion I was merely pointing out that others might be and that the original posters comment should be seen as a gracious ackowledgement that some people might feel uncomfortible discussing the topic in relationship with a fantasy series. It should be noted that h the original authors views seem to be accepting  the current authors views would be at least slightly different (In his blog Brandon Sanderson has addressed the subject of writing characters whose morality is different from his own).