Your favourite ajah?

[Sarayne]

I like Green, Blue, Brown and White. I'm honestly not sure which one I would be if I was an Aes Sedai. I have a little of all of them in me! I guess it also depends on whether we are talking about being an Aes Sedai in the WoT world or in our present day world.

 

Whites question and think about everything, which is appealing to me. I don't know that their views would be the most important to me- I guess it depends on what is going on in the world at the time.

 

Browns like to study things, and I do also. If something is interesting to me, or I don't really know much about a subject, I like to learn as much as I can about it.

 

Blues are passionate about whatever it is they personally are doing. If I am dedicated to something, I am all about it.

 

Greens are the most carefree, as someone said, and I think that battling evil is probably the most important thing to do at the time.

[water_seeker]

So Luckers, what you're saying is, if the various Ajah's were out doing what they do...Greens doing time in the Borderlands, Yellows traveling around offering healing to people who cant make it to Tar Valon, and so on, instead of wasting their time sitting around the Tower you'd like them more?  Because if that's what you're saying I agree.

[Sylvia]

It's kind of funny to read the replies, and see where someone wasn't following the conversation.....

 

I like the green......Or maybe the blue. I've always connected with Moraine.....

[Cloudz]

for myself, i would prefer to be an Asha'man of........

no ajah and of all.

like the amyrlin, Segregation of aes sedai and ash'man cause

way too much "civil war" or internal discomfort and social unrest.

but that said, to heal is the way, to help one another.

Yellow is awesome.

[Elgee]

At least some of the Reds must be doing their jobs, or the world would have been broken again a long time ago  :P

 

My favourite Ajah has changed, as the series went along. At first it was Green (very romantic and all  :D), but as we began to see some multidimentional Reds, as opposed to caricatures, I've found myself more attracted to them. Without them, the world would have gone to SG in a handbasket long ago.

 

I might go Blue too, and my Cause would be animal & plant Healing, and anti-pollution.

[Theodor89]

Brown seems to be the favourite... mine as well as it turns out :).

[Luckers]

So Luckers, what you're saying is, if the various Ajah's were out doing what they do...Greens doing time in the Borderlands, Yellows traveling around offering healing to people who cant make it to Tar Valon, and so on, instead of wasting their time sitting around the Tower you'd like them more?  Because if that's what you're saying I agree.

 

I mean i don't blame them for not saving the world--i blame them for not trying.

 

But yes, thats what I'm saying.

[researcher]

Hello

 

This is my first post, been a lurker for years.  I love the discussions.  My favorite ajahs are the yellow and brown since I am a medical researcher.  Actually I work at the same hospital where Robert Jordan passed away, who is my favorite author.  I have been reading WOT since I was 9.

[Lord Nik]

{quote]

At least some of the Reds must be doing their jobs, or the world would have been broken again a long time ago

 

I dont think so. I think that people are taking care of men Channelers themselves quite well.

 

Aeil

Men channelers go to "kill the dark one"

 

Villages

The men usually realize there fate and leave or get torn apart by villagers.

 

People seem pretty on the ball for stopping most channelers exempting the really powerful ones who get it in there head that they are the Dragon Reborn. Then the Red ajah with there speedy rescue arrive just in time to see that only half the cities in the world have been razed!

 

Hurray!

[Kadere]

 

Villages

The men usually realize there fate and leave or get torn apart by villagers.

 

 

Except for you know, Logain and Taim, or the ones who wake up to find they flattened their entire town while asleep.

[Duneflayer]

i'm a guy so i wouldn't have to worry about this anyway

 

but my favorite is gotta be the "Battle Ajah" the Green

[Eleint]

Except for you know, Logain and Taim, or the ones who wake up to find they flattened their entire town while asleep.

 

Just being pedantic, but that's a WoT in-setting Urban Legend.  You can't channel anything but Spirit while asleep, and there's really no way with Spirit to blow up a town. :)

[luftstark]

I think that the Red is the most awsome Ajah, and i'll explain myself.

 

Aside from the feminist bullshit (really, u can kill madmen without despiting all men), which really is a subproduct of their mentality, they have the most arduous mission. To keep the world from total destruction by hunting crazied channelers. And, most recently, their determination and commitment to their cause has pushed them into change their custom and start bonding men. It's the only Ajah i've seen to be willing to change in order to "help the light and the world". We know the source was cleasened, but they don't. Elaida sux, but she is not the only Red. She was despitefull since Accepted, she hated wilders and specially Siuan Sanche. So her reasons were personal. Galina was BA, all Ajahs have BA, so she can't be a "normal Red". Pevara and Tarna and others do seen to be really into their jobs.

 

The Red has always looked like a villan ajah to us coz:

 

1-Moiraine is the first AS we meet and she is a Blue (Red's nemesis Ajah).

2-Rand is the "main character" and he can channel.

3-All tower history has stated "bad red armyrlins".

4-Galina/Elaida are the main Reds we get to know before the last books.

5-They seem to be preatty fanatic.

 

So... if i see the Red Ajah like they trully are: Determined Women who risks their (long) lives to capture dangerous men.

 

Like was said, the Green has not been risking their neck, not that we have seen. The blue has been gathering info, but aside from Moiraine and Siuan, not very active. The Brown has some attipical members, like Verin, but for the most they are some Librian Old Women to tell you to be quiet. The white is committed... discuss Algebra =P... so they can discuss all they want, the DO will break free =P. The Yellow is a usefull Ajah... but... a political power? they seem to be more like "public service ajah" ... and even this they don't do. The gray may be doing exacly what it propose to, but they are failing. Not holding together the "post-aiel war" alliance was a utterly failure, so they don't have much to do now that the battle is upon us.

 

So.. cheers to the Red!!!

[Luckers]

A couple of things.

 

1. Most men the Red deals with would be weaker than they, and by far less trained. The likes of Logain, Taim or Rand are rare. There would be very little risk for a trained Aes Sedai in approaching the average male sparker.

 

2. They did not change--select individuals in power changed. Even then they could only find two other Reds they thought would be willing to entertain their ideas, and Javindhra had to be forced.

 

3. You state Tarna and Pevara--and yet you also address that Verin is an atypicial member of the Brown. Pevara and Tarna are both stated to be atypical--In Pevara's case thats probably the most polite thing anyone has said. All the women involved in seeking the Black Tower out are described in the 'atypical' sense. And Tetsuan? She's very probably insane.

[Nightstrike]

1. Most men the Red deals with would be weaker than they, and by far less trained. The likes of Logain, Taim or Rand are rare. There would be very little risk for a trained Aes Sedai in approaching the average male sparker.

I disagree. The likes of Logain, Taim & Rand are rare among men. The likes of Egwene, Cadsuane and Bodewhin are rare among women. Men used to have poor training, but men in general are much stronger than the average woman.

 

 

[Luckers]

Firstly... poor training? They had no training.

 

And no, the degrees to which men are stronger then women are just that--degrees. Men in general are not stronger than the average woman. The male average is slightly higher than the female, just as the male top strength is slightly higher then the female, but both exist within the same range. Taim, Logain and Rand are rare like Alivia and Sharina are rare, not like Cadsuane is rare.

 

[Nightstrike]

And no, the degrees to which men are stronger then women are just that--degrees.

RJ said there were "several levels of male strength on top of the female strength. Asmo said men in general were more than twice the strength of women in general.

 

Men in general are not stronger than the average woman.

They are very much stronger than the average woman.

 

The male average is slightly higher than the female, just as the male top strength is slightly higher then the female, but both exist within the same range.

See what I said above.

 

Taim, Logain and Rand are rare like Alivia and Sharina are rare, not like Cadsuane is rare.

They are all extremely rare. Less then ten female channelers are stronger than Cadsuane (born in current Age). Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Bodewhin, Sharina, Nynaeve and Alivia. A couple more perhaps...

 

[luftstark]

Firstly... poor training? They had no training.

 

 

I agree that trained AS should have no problem with male wilders. Specially since the reds don't go alone..

 

But... even for a professional animal handler a rabid dog can be dangerous. Specially if u don't know which dog is the rabid one.

 

They may hear wierd things are happening in a village or town, but they don't know who are the male channeler... And their ageless face, for one who knows it, is like a beacon.

 

So they do risk themselfs. Alot!!

[Lord Nik]

 

Villages

The men usually realize there fate and leave or get torn apart by villagers.

 

 

Except for you know, Logain and Taim, or the ones who wake up to find they flattened their entire town while asleep.

 

Must have forgotten to read the rest of my post....

so here it is!

People seem pretty on the ball for stopping most channelers exempting the really powerful ones who get it in there head that they are the Dragon Reborn. Then the Red ajah with there speedy rescue arrive just in time to see that only half the cities in the world have been razed....

 

[Kaznen]

I used to agree with Luckers about how the AS have dropped the ball by sealing themselves away from the world until I reread the BW several months ago at B&N (my own copy has been lost for several years).

 

When the Tower was founded there were represtentives of about 30 ajahs mentionws, likely much more were there but only 28-30 names were mentioned, and some of them didn't like what wasa being talked about so they left, later Stilled for "claiming to be Aes Sedai," and while all the ajahs were distilled down to 7 it said that in the early days the Tower was seven groups of AS united together not one group with seven focuses.  And while this prevented ancient Randland form turning into what happened in Seanchan it was still seven groups mostly doing what they wanted.

 

Now one thing that is commoning refered to by the AS is "tradition stronger then law," when one of the supergirls questioned why the AS do things the way they do when there are more reasonable ways to accomplish their goals they have been told, "because that is how it was always done," by an AS who doesn't even know the reason why it became tradition, and worst of all doesn't care.

 

So while Luckers' ideas of stationing the greens on the borderlands, yellows setting up hospitals, grays stationed to royal courts, ect. makes perfect sense the idea never accured to the AS because they are trapped in their own pointless traditions that they believe wholeheartedly.

 

BTW I think Alanna wouldn't have left TR when trollocs were afoot and she got a major thrill fighting them in Emonds Field.  I could picture Perrin looking at her in the battle and her laughing her butt off in joy.

[leyalyn]

I am thinking that maybe a merging of the Blue's and Greens would be good, that way they might actually get something done. I think the problem is that the Aes Sedai have with drawn themselves from the real world. I agree with Kaznen regarding distilling the Ajahs. :-\

[rhadamanthus]

Kaznen:  Sounds to me like you agree with Luckers.  You just added some supporting background material.

[Luckers]

RJ said there were "several levels of male strength on top of the female strength. Asmo said men in general were more than twice the strength of women in general.

 

Can you please provide the Asmo quote?

 

It's irrelevant anyway, RJ's statement about the percentages of men vs. women strong enough to attain the shawl shows the minute degree of difference between the distributions of their strength. If men were in general twice as strong as women, their average would be twice as high as women, which would mean by far more men then women would be strong enough to gain the shawl.

 

As for "several levels"--i believe i covered that--the male upper strength, as i stated, is slightly higher than the female. 23 or 24 levels compared to 21 levels.

 

Quote

Taim, Logain and Rand are rare like Alivia and Sharina are rare, not like Cadsuane is rare.

 

They are all extremely rare. Less then ten female channelers are stronger than Cadsuane (born in current Age). Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Bodewhin, Sharina, Nynaeve and Alivia. A couple more perhaps...

 

There are more--Telaan, Someryn, Viendre, Tamela, Metarra, Therava--and thats just what I can remember off the top of my head--and just what we know, there are well over ten thousand active female channelers whose strengths we've heard no comments about.

 

The fact is Aes Sedai recruitment standards are insanely lax, and the other organisations that do have better recruitment we have no comments about the stratas of strength.

 

The point you'd tried to make, in some way comparing Rand, Logain or Taim and their frequency amongst men, to the level of strength at which Cadsuane is false. Rand, Logain and Taim stand at the top of the hierarchy, and are to be compared to the likes of Alivia and Sharina, who also stand in those heights. Comparing them to the likes of Cadsuane, or even Egwene does not work, they may be insanely strong for an Aes Sedai, but Aes Sedai recruitment is an absurdity. They are not insanley strong in the strata of female strength. Or uncommen.

 

The commonality of women of Cadsuane or even Egwene's strength is MUCH higher than that or women of Alivia's strength--or men of Logain's.

 

I agree that trained AS should have no problem with male wilders. Specially since the reds don't go alone..

 

But... even for a professional animal handler a rabid dog can be dangerous. Specially if u don't know which dog is the rabid one.

 

They may hear wierd things are happening in a village or town, but they don't know who are the male channeler... And their ageless face, for one who knows it, is like a beacon.

 

So they do risk themselfs. Alot!!

 

A lot, with two exclamation points, is not what a professional animal handler faces with even a rabid dog.  Nor is it what a Red sister faces with the average male channeler. Do you know how frequently trained animal handlers die, with even dangerous rabid animals? Not a lot. There is risk, but if they have the foresight to plan that risk is minimalized to essentially nothing.

 

Most men would be blocked, would be weak in the power, and would be scared out of their minds. These are not dangerous enemies, not unless you misstep dramatically--and thats not the men's doing.

 

When the Tower was founded there were represtentives of about 30 ajahs mentionws, likely much more were there but only 28-30 names were mentioned, and some of them didn't like what wasa being talked about so they left, later Stilled for "claiming to be Aes Sedai," and while all the ajahs were distilled down to 7 it said that in the early days the Tower was seven groups of AS united together not one group with seven focuses.  And while this prevented ancient Randland form turning into what happened in Seanchan it was still seven groups mostly doing what they wanted.

 

Actually there were only 12 major ajah represented, and several minor. 2 of the major ajah resisted, but of them only one, the ajah led by Lideine were stilled--the others, under Mailaine, knelt and were allowed to rejoin the Tower.

 

These ajah were not running roughshod either--by 98AB Elisane had established herself as Amyrlin, with the other seven strongest ajah leaders advising her. Unity was occuring, even if harsh.

 

Now one thing that is commoning refered to by the AS is "tradition stronger then law," when one of the supergirls questioned why the AS do things the way they do when there are more reasonable ways to accomplish their goals they have been told, "because that is how it was always done," by an AS who doesn't even know the reason why it became tradition, and worst of all doesn't care.

 

So while Luckers' ideas of stationing the greens on the borderlands, yellows setting up hospitals, grays stationed to royal courts, ect. makes perfect sense the idea never accured to the AS because they are trapped in their own pointless traditions that they believe wholeheartedly.

 

I never said i didn't understand it--there is actually another thread by me entitled 'The Life and Times of an Aes Sedai' in which i cover just how these well educated, intelligent, strong willed women could be such slaves to tradition.

 

But irrespective of whether they meant to do it, they've dropped the ball, end game. They made no effort at all to fix things--or even examine them, not even in the face of things that spell their own doom like the decline in Aes Sedai numbers.

 

Their incompetence is understandable, but its not forgivable, not for a group that holds as much power as they do.

 

I mean case and point female channelers--women die every year from lack of training, but they not only make no effort to recruit women, they also stop any other group from doing so. Tell me that isn't criminally negligent.

 

BTW I think Alanna wouldn't have left TR when trollocs were afoot and she got a major thrill fighting them in Emonds Field.  I could picture Perrin looking at her in the battle and her laughing her butt off in joy.

 

Once again i never suggested she would--i asked when the Green had last fought Trollocs except by happenstance, Robert raised Alanna, and i pointed out that she was not in the Two Rivers to fight Trollocs--that she stayed to do so is nice, but it adds nothing to the Green fulfilling their mandate.

 

That comment I made above about the fall of Malkier and the Green is very apt here. "They call themselves the Battle Ajah--not the Do-What-I-Want-Until-All-Hope-Is-Lost-And-Then-I'll-Actually-Fight Ajah.

 

Because you know what happens when your that Ajah? You don't get there in time."

 

That was not a case of Alanna being the Battle Ajah, she was the other Ajah, and if her 'doing what she wanted' hadn't placed her in the Two Rivers, she would not have been in the fight.

[Nightstrike]

RJ said there were "several levels of male strength on top of the female strength. Asmo said men in general were more than twice the strength of women in general.

 

Can you please provide the Asmo quote?

Yes, I can. Asmodean said:..."Perhaps in the grand scheme of the Pattern, it’s a balance for men being stronger… Some women have stronger arms than some men, but in general it is the other way around. The same holds with strength in the Power, and in about the same proportion… If two women link, they do not double their strength – linking is not as simple as adding together the power of each – but if they are strong enough, they can match a man.” (TFoH, Pale Shadows).

 

It's irrelevant anyway, RJ's statement about the percentages of men vs. women strong enough to attain the shawl shows the minute degree of difference between the distributions of their strength.

No, it does not.

 

As for "several levels"--i believe i covered that--the male upper strength, as i stated, is slightly higher than the female. 23 or 24 levels compared to 21 levels.

Two levels aren't "several levels". Asmo said men in general are more than twice the strength of women.

 

They are all extremely rare. Less then ten female channelers are stronger than Cadsuane (born in current Age). Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Bodewhin, Sharina, Nynaeve and Alivia. A couple more perhaps...

 

There are more--Telaan, Someryn, Viendre, Tamela, Metarra, Therava--and thats just what I can remember off the top of my head--and just what we know, there are well over ten thousand active female channelers whose strengths we've heard no comments about.

OK, there are 13 present day women channelers that are stronger than Cadsuane. Out of how many thousand channelers? That would be "extremely rare". Cadsuane was the strongest Aes Sedai in a thousand years. Extremely rare. Extremely strong, compared to the average of all Aes Sedai. Even more extreme, compared to the average of all women channelers.

 

The fact is Aes Sedai recruitment standards are insanely lax, and the other organisations that do have better recruitment we have no comments about the stratas of strength.

That very fact would be a reason to expect the average Aes Sedai to be quite a bit stronger than otherwise expected. Sparkers are stronger than learners. Sparkers such as Siuan has a big chance of becoming shipped off to Tar Valon. Learners that are older than 18 years when they were discovered would not have been accepted as novices before 998 NE.

 

The point you'd tried to make, in some way comparing Rand, Logain or Taim and their frequency amongst men, to the level of strength at which Cadsuane is false.

The frequency of Logain or Taim (for men) is not much higher than the frequency of Cadsuane (for women).

 

Rand, Logain and Taim stand at the top of the hierarchy, and are to be compared to the likes of Alivia and Sharina, who also stand in those heights. Comparing them to the likes of Cadsuane, or even Egwene does not work, they may be insanely strong for an Aes Sedai, but Aes Sedai recruitment is an absurdity. They are not insanley strong in the strata of female strength. Or uncommen.

They are EXTREMELY uncommon.

 

 

 

[Hallow]

They are EXTREMELY uncommon.

 

Sorry but this is unbased, if you look at how many strong channelers have popped up when Aes Sedai actually wanted to look you cant possibly know how many more are out there. Just as an example: Nynaeve, Egwene, Bode, Sharina, and probably some i forgot :)

 

However, the sparkers among men get fairly well known as they become raving lunatics, destroy something or become false dragons (Apart from the ones not dying at once the spark manifests) whilst strong sparkers among women most usually block themselves somehow (Like Nynaeve) since Aes Sedai dont go looking and most girls might be afraid of going to the tower. (Again, apart from the ones that die at once)