Perrin rescuing rand again.

[Ziggdiezan]

I keep hearing about Perrin rescusing Rand again, was in a true dream. where did the idea come from, thanks!

[Eleint]

Min said that Perrin would have to be there twice or Rand would die.  He was there at Dumai's Wells.  He needs to be there one more time.

[Dark Justice]

Its Min. Min viewes that Rand will needs Perrins help 2 times, or he will die. The first time was dumais wells, and it seems likely the 2nd time will be the 13 aes sedai that hangs around with the borderlander army.

 

ahhh.. you came  before me..

[RobertAlexWillis]

Here's the viewing, from LoC ch 46

 

(Min, speaking to Rand, about Perrin)

 

When you two were together, I saw those fireflies and the darkness stronger than ever...But with the two of you in the same room, the fireflies were holding their own instead of being eaten faster than they can swarm, the way they do when you're alone. And there's something else I saw when you two were together. Twice he's going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand.

[Dark Justice]

Ah. Thanx. I was certain it would be his death, but it is not written directly so. It could be turning him to the dark side aswell... Or "insert bad thing that might happen here"

[mb]

Like another poster told, it was one of Min's Viewings.  And like that same poster told, the first time was Dumai's Wells.

 

Second time, there have been a number of theories about that; we cannot know for certain until Memory of Light is published (each 3 parts).

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

The 13/13 turning seems like a real option, given the number of Aes Sedai with the Borderlanders and the possibility that they are the ones who freed Taim.

 

[Kaznen]

more likely they were the AS Elidia dispatched to "advise" the kings and queens in the borderlands.  I remember she ordered 6 reds to be sent to advise Tebonia.

[Jethro]

What are the chances of those Reds being Black though? I hope they are

[Sab]

Yeah but wasn't Tebonia having nothing to do with Eladia's advisors? 

[Hallow]

Yeah but wasn't Tebonia having nothing to do with Eladia's advisors? 

 

Yup, she sent Elaida a letter telling her to stop meddling in borderlander affairs i believe.

[Sab]

Not sure I buy the whole borderlander Aes Sedai hurting Rand, first he has been warned that there are 13 of them if I am not mistaken.  He can just send some his Aes Sedai to talk to the leaders.  So seems unlikely he would allow himself to be taken by surprise.  Plus seems bit obivious.  RJ is good for surprises like Rand's kidnapping.  Not to mention if Rand went there he would have his posse with him like when he thought he was meeting Tuon.

[Jethro]

Not sure I buy the whole borderlander Aes Sedai hurting Rand, first he has been warned that there are 13 of them if I am not mistaken.  He can just send some his Aes Sedai to talk to the leaders.  So seems unlikely he would allow himself to be taken by surprise.  Plus seems bit obivious.  RJ is good for surprises like Rand's kidnapping.  Not to mention if Rand went there he would have his posse with him like when he thought he was meeting Tuon.

 

Thats why I think this time there may be Blacks with them.

[Muad Cheade]

I agree with everything everyone else said. Perrin has to be there twice for Rand or the latter will/would die. The first time was at Dumai's Wells.

 

However, what if the Aes Sedai were able to take Rand to Tar Valon without Perrin helping him escape? This is all hypothetical. He might've died due to Mesaana controlling the Tower, yet he might not have due to the fact he would always be surrounded by Aes Sedai. He could then escape and retake his place as the Dragon Reborn, and Perrin would still be needed to save him twice.

It's all hypothetical and false but it would be interesting.

[Elwinn Taron]

Or....maybe it's already happened.  Min later says "Women who can channel will hurt you badly."  When Rand went to meet the fake Tuon, there were women who can channel there.  Perrin was not.  Rand was hurt badly.  I'm not saying this was the incident Min "saw", but, hey, food for thought.

[Majsju]

I strongly doubt just losing a hand would qualify as something Min refers to as 'very bad'.

[Eleint]

I'm still standing by the 'Thirteen Aes Sedai and Thirteen Myrddraal' thing.  Jordan introduced that and we've NEVER seen it in play, other than a single thread in TDR and in someone's Accepted test.

 

I wanna see Rand about to be Turned and have Perrin come roaring in, leading the TR people.

[Blade]

Personally I think it's going to have something to do with the prophet...just from the way that everyone around him thinks the prophet needs to die, and also because when Perrin initially is around the Prophet he picks up a scent off of him when they were talking about Rand that seemed wierd to me...can't remember what it was I'll have to go re-read that part, but after all, the Prophet is definitely doing things that aren't in line with what Rand wants and he's gotta know it. I mean, he made alliance with the Seanchan while rand was fighting them. Just my 2 cents.

[Majsju]

I'm still standing by the 'Thirteen Aes Sedai and Thirteen Myrddraal' thing.  Jordan introduced that and we've NEVER seen it in play, other than a single thread in TDR and in someone's Accepted test.

 

I wanna see Rand about to be Turned and have Perrin come roaring in, leading the TR people.

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,36785.0.html  ;D

[Dida]

Its Min. Min viewes that Rand will needs Perrins help 2 times, or he will die. The first time was dumais wells, and it seems likely the 2nd time will be the 13 aes sedai that hangs around with the borderlander army.

 

ahhh.. you came  before me..

 

  First thanks for the discussion!  :)

 

  Not sure if I buy the "13 Black Ajah Aes Sedai" in the Borderlander Army within Andor story arc hypothesis, as the threat that Perrin is going to save Rand from. 

 

 

  Yes there very likely are many Black Ajah within the Borderlander Army, yet isn't that a separate story arc at this point in time in the WoT series?  One would think that Perrin, Galad, Mat, Morgase Trakand, Tam et al would head to see Elayne in the capital Caemyln first, before even thinking of meeting up with a large foreign army? 

 

 

  From what little piecing together of the facts I know of for the next book, I do "know" this about Perrin:

 

1st. - Perrin's group in Altara will meet up with the roughly 7,000 White Cloaks led by Galad (Rand's half Brother), who are heading to Andor.  Lots of story lines will occur when this happens:  Galad mets his mother! Perrin & Faile will be shocked who she really is, that just the starter of many character surprises & interplays.

 

 

2nd. - Perrin's huge group of people will meet up with Mat's group, according to what Brandon Sanderson said to a Torrance, California Book signing at Borders Books I attended months ago in person.  Now we know Perrin & Mat groups will meet up, but we do not know the ordering of details: is Galad with them (?), do Perrin & Mat meet up before or after the Tower of Ghenjei (?), what is Moiraine's role after surviving the Tower of Ghenjei(?) in connection with Perrin saving Rand from some unknown danger(?) as Min foretells twice him doing.

 

 

3. I speculate that Perrin's group will met up with a combined Mat + Galad's group before they all head to the Tower of Ghenjei to attempt to save Moiraine, as this would be able a quicker movement via the Traveling Asha'man.

 

 

4. What threat or Who could Perrin likely protect from?

 

    We know Perrin can not channel, so that likely rules out Chosen/Forsaken as the threat.  Secondly, Perrin is a Wolfbrother and the one threat to Rand that Perrin can counter realistically is "Slayer" in a wolf dream, and in person (Lord Luc).  Isam/Luc/Slayer has attempted to kill Perrin a few times already in a wolf dream. Then also attempted to kill Rand in Far Madding at the command of the forsaken Demandred (very likely).  The question is when Slayer is asked/commanded to attempt to kill his nephew the Dragon the Reborn again?

 

    Next, I wonder what Moiraine's questions to Aelfinn and Eelfinn were, especially considering she had to think about the combined 6 questions before hand? Not to mention the rings at Rhuidean, which foretold her future fighting Lanfear to protect Rand at the docks at Cairhien.  Could both Perrin & Moiraine rescuing be from the very same event, threat or are they separate?  ???

[The Doctor]

It's possible the 2nd time is at the Last Battle.

[mb]

Last Battle, that makes little sense since Rand is prophesied to die sometime in it at the Pit of Doom.

 

Forsaken being ruled out?  The channelers in any of the groups (Perrin's/Mat's/Galad's/Rand's) could help in dealing with the Forsaken.

 

The Aes Sedia in the Borderland camps, we do not know if any or how much are Black Ajah.  Also, any of the groups would likely turn myrddraal away; so turning Rand to the Shadow would be unlikely.

 

 

One of these I think might be the second time:

-Slayer

-Moridin

-Fain

-Masema

-maybe Seanchan

-less likely Borderland camps

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes there very likely are many Black Ajah within the Borderlander Army, yet isn't that a separate story arc at this point in time in the WoT series?

 

Story arcs cross and rejoin all the time.  Perrin has just finished the "find Masema and rescue Faile" arc.  Its time for him to get involved with another one.

 

One would think that Perrin, Galad, Mat, Morgase Trakand, Tam et al would head to see Elayne in the capital Caemyln first, before even thinking of meeting up with a large foreign army?One would think that Perrin, Galad, Mat, Morgase Trakand, Tam et al would head to see Elayne in the capital Caemyln first, before even thinking of meeting up with a large foreign army?

 

If they go overland, they'll run right into the Borderlanders as they come south, long before they get to Caemlyn.

 

Perrin's group in Altara will meet up with the roughly 7,000 White Cloaks led by Galad (Rand's half Brother), who are heading to Andor.  Lots of story lines will occur when this happens:  Galad mets his mother! Perrin & Faile will be shocked who she really is, that just the starter of many character surprises & interplays.

 

That simply makes a conflict with a Borderlander army in Andor more likely.

 

Perrin's huge group of people will meet up with Mat's group, according to what Brandon Sanderson said to a Torrance, California Book signing at Borders Books I attended months ago in person.  Now we know Perrin & Mat groups will meet up, but we do not know the ordering of details: is Galad with them (?), do Perrin & Mat meet up before or after the Tower of Ghenjei (?), what is Moiraine's role after surviving the Tower of Ghenjei(?) in connection with Perrin saving Rand from some unknown danger(?) as Min foretells twice him doing.  Perrin's huge group of people will meet up with Mat's group, according to what Brandon Sanderson said to a Torrance, California Book signing at Borders Books I attended months ago in person.  Now we know Perrin & Mat groups will meet up, but we do not know the ordering of details: is Galad with them (?), do Perrin & Mat meet up before or after the Tower of Ghenjei (?), what is Moiraine's role after surviving the Tower of Ghenjei(?) in connection with Perrin saving Rand from some unknown danger(?) as Min foretells twice him doing.

 

No shock there.  It would facilitate Mat getting to the Tower of Ghenjei even more quickly, since either Grady or Neald could make a gateway.  Still doesn't help them avoid the Borderlanders.

 

3. I speculate that Perrin's group will met up with a combined Mat + Galad's group before they all head to the Tower of Ghenjei to attempt to save Moiraine, as this would be able a quicker movement via the Traveling Asha'man.

 

Why would they all go to the Tower of Ghenjei?  No one can go in except Mat, Thom, and one other person (Noal).

 

We know Perrin can not channel, so that likely rules out Chosen/Forsaken as the threat.

 

Perrin doesn't have to do it alone.  He wasn't alone at Dumai's Wells, where he faced hundreds of channelers and won.

 

Secondly, Perrin is a Wolfbrother and the one threat to Rand that Perrin can counter realistically is "Slayer" in a wolf dream, and in person (Lord Luc).  Isam/Luc/Slayer has attempted to kill Perrin a few times already in a wolf dream. Then also attempted to kill Rand in Far Madding at the command of the forsaken Demandred (very likely).  The question is when Slayer is asked/commanded to attempt to kill his nephew the Dragon the Reborn again?

 

That is, of course, another possibility.

 

Next, I wonder what Moiraine's questions to Aelfinn and Eelfinn were, especially considering she had to think about the combined 6 questions before hand?

 

Moiraine got three questions, not six.  There is no reason to believe that the Eelfinn would have dealt with her in any way except to make her a prisoner, and they don't answer questions anyway.

 

Not to mention the rings at Rhuidean, which foretold her future fighting Lanfear to protect Rand at the docks at Cairhien.  Could both Perrin & Moiraine rescuing be from the very same event, threat or are they separate?

 

I don't see how Perrin's rescue of Rand and Mat's rescue of Moiraine are related, except in the sense that they are both part of the overall storyline.