Rand's Debatable Death....

[Lord Nik]

Ive been gone a while so this may have been brought up. So forgive me not going through the several thousand posts since my last visit :P

 

Does anyone think it is at all possible for the prophecy where Rand "dies then lives again" (rough wording but whatever) That Rand dies. Mat blows the horn, And Rand comes back as a hero?

just a thought..

[Roxinos]

I think it's been mentioned once or twice.

[Jambo]

I kind of like this idea, and you aren't the first to mention it.

 

What better ending could there be then to have Rand die and everyone be all like: "Gaaaah ok we're screwed," and then WHAM Mat blows the horn and a fully limbed Rand and other heroes will come forth and unleash awsome vengence  :D

[Lord Nik]

I kind of like this idea, and you aren't the first to mention it.

 

What better ending could there be then to have Rand die and everyone be all like: "Gaaaah ok we're screwed," and then WHAM Mat blows the horn and a fully limbed Rand and other heroes will come forth and unleash awsome vengence   :D

 

ive always liked that ending the best. and it makes the most sense to me than all the body swapping, sun exploding, and *rand some how killing himself with someone else to come back as someone else with the DO stealing his soul in the process* theories :D

 

I mentioned this a loooong time ago i believe in a unrelevant post so meh...

where are the people trying to break this theory apart! everyone's agreeing with me for a change!

hazah!

[Roxinos]

One obviously problem I have with that is that I would imagine that if the Horn of Valere were that bloody important, it'd be featured in the Prophecies of the Dragon. As it stands, it's never referenced as part of any other prophecies. It's merely referred to as something that needs to be present at the Last Battle in order for the Dragon Reborn to succeed.

[Sylvia]

It's merely referred to as something that needs to be present at the Last Battle in order for the Dragon Reborn to succeed.

Which would make the whole "Rand dies, horn= Rand comes back" Theory work. He can't win unless the horn is there.

 

Personally I don't think that's going to happen. I'll believe the body-swapping over this.

[Roxinos]

*sigh* It seems you missed my point, so I will quote directly from the books.

 

Steam curled over the cups while Moiraine chose her questions carefully. To find the answers, and not reveal too much. "The Horn of Valere is not mentioned in the Prophecies, but is it linked to the Dragon anywhere?"

 

"No. Except for the fact that the Horn must be found before Tarmon Gai'don and that the Dragon Reborn is supposed to fight the Last Battle, there is no link between them at all." The white-haired woman sipped her tea and waited.

 

In other words, the Prophecies do not speak of the Horn at all. In fact, the only link that can be made between the Horn and the Dragon is that the Horn must be found in order for the world to have a chance of beating back the Dark One at Tarmon Gai'don and that the Dragon must be present at the Last Battle for the same result.

 

I would imagine that if the Horn were so connected to the Dragon that it would bring him back to life after being killed, that the Prophecies would make mention of that tie. At the very least, that the Prophecies would make mention of the Horn at all. But no. It does not do either.

 

So no, the Horn will not bring the Dragon Reborn back to life at the Last Battle to fight as one of the Heroes.

[CUBAREY]

In fact, the only link that can be made between the Horn and the Dragon is that the Horn must be found in order for the world to have a chance of beating back the Dark One at Tarmon Gai'don and that the Dragon must be present at the Last Battle for the same result.

 

Thus at best what we know is that for the light to win the Dragon must be present at the last battle and the Horn must have been found some time prior to the battle (It is not even clear that the horn must be sounded at the last battle for the light to win although this seems to be a reasonable assumption).

[Roxinos]

Thanks for just repeating exactly what I said.

[CUBAREY]

Thanks for just repeating exactly what I said.

 

I did add that whether the horn must be used in the last battle is uncertain. A minor point but one that occasisioned my post.

[Roxinos]

Lovely, you added it as a side note, in parentheses. You explicitly said, in a side note, what I implicitly said.

 

*shrug* Don't take what I'm saying harshly. If you want to add something, add it. You don't have to bolster the length of your post by repeating what a previous poster said, even if you're agreeing with them.

[Auld Manriva]

Havin' a bad day Rox? I think CR was actually agreeing mostly...

[MikeRiley]

Both the Horn of Valere and the Dragon Reborn have to be present at the Last Battle. It doesn't say that Rand has to die, it just really suggests it's going to happen. Hawkwing hesitated when he saw Rand and so had to follow the Dragon Banner instead, this suggests there is a time when Rand comes to the sound of the Horn - an event that has not happened once in the Age of Legends and not once in the current age. If Rand comes to the Horn's call, he would be leading the Heroes who aren't already spun out. If the Dragon was supposed to be dead at the Last Battle and riding for the Horn it would still allow all the prophecies. It'd even give the opportunity of the tearful goodbyes before he fades into the mist with the rest of the heroes. (This is where Nynaeve works herself into a fury at the good guy dying and goes into TAR and rips him back out into the real world, which won't matter because his death might cause Elayne, Aviendha and Min to go mad and kill everybody anyway.)

 

We also know that the Heroes' fight was tied to Rand's success while fighting with Ishamael. I posted a thread recently asking about this idea and it got a lot of good posts.

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,40623.0.html

[mb]

Does anyone think it is at all possible for the prophecy where Rand "dies then lives again" (rough wording but whatever) That Rand dies. Mat blows the horn, And Rand comes back as a hero?

Not sure, but there might be some amount of time for a Hero's soul to return to Telaranrhiod (that is the space the Heroes are summoned from).

 

 

About Elayne/Aviendha/Min, why would Rand's death cause those 3 to go mad and kill?  A warder's death technically has not caused madness.  The closest thing would be Ellisande after feeling Aemon's death.

 

[MikeRiley]

Some Aes Sedai said somewhere in one of the later books that they don't know what the effects would be of a warder death when the warder can channel too. What I said in parenthesis was not exactly serious, though.

[Roxinos]

Havin' a bad day Rox? I think CR was actually agreeing mostly...

 

Yep, I know. I just really don't like it when people just post to repeat exactly what someone else said without actually adding anything. If you're going to repeat, then elaborate and give more detail.

 

Hawkwing hesitated when he saw Rand and so had to follow the Dragon Banner instead, this suggests there is a time when Rand comes to the sound of the Horn - an event that has not happened once in the Age of Legends and not once in the current age.

 

No, it doesn't. His hesitation was not after seeing Rand. His hesitation was after he looked down at the battle and wanted to go down to fight. He then looked at Rand and told him that something was missing. It suggests that there was some force which required, at that point in time, the Dragon Banner to be present. Of course, the obvious thing which controls the Heroes is the Wheel, and we know the Wheel influences events to nudge Rand in the right direction.

 

Hawkwing's acknowledgment of Rand's soul merely suggests that Rand's soul is tied to the Wheel. That's all. And we already know that it is because Rand is the Dragon Reborn.

 

Again, I would imagine that if the Horn was so important that it was to bring Rand back to life to lead the Heroes into battle, that it would be at least MENTIONED in the Karaethon Cycle. But no, it's not mentioned in the Prophecies at all. Of course, this doesn't mean that your theory is necessarily debunked, just that there's no reason to believe it.

[Lord Nik]

Well how would it be put in the proph's with out it making it obscenly clear that the horn idea would happen. If there was even a wiff of the horn tied to the dragon in the prophs everyone would know whats gonna happen.

 

<i><b>"Rand will die than live again, then the horn will sound and something will happen along the lines of him living twice"

taken from the kaeretheon cycle translated by Lord Nik </i> </b>

 

Just the thought that both (horn and dragon) of them having to be there at TG makes it a big possibility to me.

[Jethro]

Im not sure I like the idea of Rand being a Hero at the end. To die and live again... could a Hero of the Horn be said to alive, when summoned by the Horn? Was Arthur Hawkwing alive when he spoke to Mat?

[Lord Nik]

The heroes certainly seem alive.

Look to B Silver Bow?

 

Thats something we could argue about for hours over and not get anywhere