Another thought I had.

[Angel of Death]

I am currently giving the Audio Books a go and am on tDR.

When Rand first runs away from the camp Moiraine is worried he has rediscovered a lost techneique like flying or becoming invisible. Now we know that Aes Sedai could never actually fly with the one power (they simply used the power to opperate sho-wings), but what about becoming invisible. I can't recall the techneique being mentioned again. Is it actually possible (by maybe using air to bend light around you) or is it another weave that has been warped by memory? (or was Moiraine just thinking of unheard of weaves that might have been known)?

[Mr Ares]

I can't recall the techneique being mentioned again. Is it actually possible (by maybe using air to bend light around you)?

Yes, it is possible and it is mentioned again. He later learns it from Asmo. He uses it to hide Egwene from the Tower embassy in LOC. Also, Nynaeve and Elayne learn it from Moghedien, so it is known to the Salidar Aes Sedai.

[Graendals favourite]

It is indeed possible. Moiraine does this by the Seven Towers at Malkier, for example, Lanfear does this to Rand, Loial and herself in Cairhien, and Rand does this to Egwene when Coiren, Galina and Nesune come to see Rand in Cairhien. Here is also where a question of some contention arises. It is my opinion that the Forsaken know how to move about while invisible without the ripples mentioned by Rand in that last example. Rand had Lews Therin advise him, yet it is unclear if Rand still knew how to do it right and if it is different when you hide yourself and move or you hide someone else who moves. There are some occurences that would be easier to explain if you could be invisible and move, such as Lanfear disappearing from Min in Falme, Asmodean getting past the Maidens in Eianrod when Rand and Aviendha were off on their Seanchan-adventure, and Graendal rummaging Sammael's chambers while Rand and Asha'man go in and out of them all the while, as well as Aran'gar disposing was it Meri's body.

[Majsju]

It is my opinion that the Forsaken know how to move about while invisible without the ripples mentioned by Rand in that last example.

 

That is extremely unlikely. Why would Moridin go through the trouble of dressing up in fancloth from head to toe if he could simple have used a weave to get the job done?

To just mention one of several incidents where it would have made a lot of sense for the forsaken to use that ability, if it had existed.

[Darlakk]

It is my opinion that the Forsaken know how to move about while invisible without the ripples mentioned by Rand in that last example.

 

That is extremely unlikely. Why would Moridin go through the trouble of dressing up in fancloth from head to toe if he could simple have used a weave to get the job done?

To just mention one of several incidents where it would have made a lot of sense for the forsaken to use that ability, if it had existed.

 

Agreed, in several forsaken battles, such as Rand vs Rahvin, going invisible with and inverted weave would have ended the fight in minutes. Balefire out of nowhere. Instead Rahvin had to hide and sneak to avoid direct contact with Rand.

[mb]

It was actually flying or Traveling; and it did not seem to be worry to me.

 

Invisibility, Moiraine knew that.

 

[Angel of Death]

okay my mistake, and i didn't just mean the simple ward, i did mean moving about while invisible.

[mb]

The Wikipedia site told Elayne invented a ter'angreal for invisibility.

Moving around while invisible I think could only be possible with only that.

 

[Graendals favourite]

It is my opinion that the Forsaken know how to move about while invisible without the ripples mentioned by Rand in that last example.

 

That is extremely unlikely. Why would Moridin go through the trouble of dressing up in fancloth from head to toe if he could simple have used a weave to get the job done?

To just mention one of several incidents where it would have made a lot of sense for the forsaken to use that ability, if it had existed.

Agreed, in several forsaken battles, such as Rand vs Rahvin, going invisible with and inverted weave would have ended the fight in minutes. Balefire out of nowhere. Instead Rahvin had to hide and sneak to avoid direct contact with Rand.

True, Moridin did use fancloth. Well, there's several things to point out anyhow.

 

Firstly, invisibility generally would not be useful in a crowd or when many people are around, it would only advertise that something strange is happening, then. Ordinarily it is better to have a body with which to open doors. Secondly, in a battle, it is always also possible to disguise oneself as a standlamp for example through normal illusion instead of invisibility. I think what it comes down to in battle is the ability to channel effectively, simply appearing out of nowhere into view is dangerous since the other guy can react to something like that pretty fast.

 

Perhaps it is possible one cannot channel out of the invisibility without destroying it, I remember Moiraine saying something to that effect about something.

 

It may well be that the fancloth would be much the easier method, and save the effort of channelling for it to boot (I mention Siuan's instruction of how it is not worth the trouble creating a knife of Air when an ordinary knife will do). I am steered toward thinking the invosibility when moving is possible but difficult. Asmodean, Graendal and Aran'gar, all of them said or thought what they did was very much trouble. (Of course, Asmodean must have someone managed to open a door without the Maidens noticing, Graendal must have been able to pick up objects and dodge people without them noticing or sensing she held saidar, and Aran'gar must have been able to carry a body through an army camp and hide leaving footprints in the snow all the while. Yet for anyone of them, they must have thought success would be fairly certain or surely they would not have tried what they did.) Well, anyway now I feel this becomes speculation, even if it were possible, there is no way for us to know how exactly it works and what the limitations are, the only thing we know is that the forsaken can do something to the effect, best illustrated by Lanfear disappearing on Min but also on Rand and Loial. Not to mention Egwene. Yes, Lanfear is not completely stupid-- the reason why she is seen traipsing around for example in the Tower with her spectacular appearance drawing eyes is that most of the time she is not seen and she does not need to bother with a costume. Lanfear must have special talent for illusions-- for example for Maerone, Graendal actually wears a normal dress to look in on Mat's army.

[General Cauthon]

Asmodean must have someone managed to open a door without the Maidens noticing,

 

He could've created a distraction with the Power

 

Graendal must have been able to pick up objects and dodge people without them noticing or sensing she held saidar

 

She could have been diguised as a maid, and stolen whatever she wanted. We know that men cannot sence a woman holding the Power if she use the weave to hide her ability.

 

Aran'gar must have been able to carry a body through an army camp and hide leaving footprints in the snow all the while.

 

Aran'gar could've destroyed the body with the Power. Much more likely then her carrying anything.

 

the only thing we know is that the forsaken can do something to the effect, best illustrated by Lanfear disappearing on Min

 

This could just have been Lanfear Travelling. Maybe RJ hadn't decided to use Gateways yet, or there's another weave that allows one to Trave without moving. In the prologue of tEotW we see both LTT and Ishamael Travel this way.

 

Lanfear must have special talent for illusions-- for example for Maerone, Graendal actually wears a normal dress to look in on Mat's army.

 

The closer the Illusion is to your real appearance, the more likely the Illusion are to hold. We witness this in one of Mesaana's meetings with Alviarin. Graendal simply minimized the risk of being detected. Since Lanfear already wears a white dress, she could easily disguise herself as a Novice.

[Graendals favourite]

Time to reference the books, cause many things here are said straight out.

Asmodean must have someone managed to open a door without the Maidens noticing,

 

He could've created a distraction with the Power

Could have, though fool guards they would be to leave the door they are set to guard unguarded because of a distraction, save that he says (in Fires of Heaven: A Short Spear) he used invisibility:

Asmodean swallowed, shifting as though he did not know whether Rand meant his threat. Rand was not sure himself. "My Lord Dragon, you never asked. A matter of bending light. You always have so many questions, it is hard to find a moment to speak of anything else. You must realise by now that I've thrown my lot in with yours completely." Licking his lips, he got up. As far as his knees. And began to babble. "I felt your weave-- anybody within a mile could have felt it-- I never saw anything like it-- I didn't know that anyone but Demandred could block a gateway that was closing, and maybe Semirhage-- and Lews Therin-- I felt it, and came, and a hard time I had getting past those Maidens-- I used the same trick-- you must know I am your man now. My Lord Dragon, I am your man.

 

 

Graendal must have been able to pick up objects and dodge people without them noticing or sensing she held saidar

 

She could have been diguised as a maid, and stolen whatever she wanted. We know that men cannot sence a woman holding the Power if she use the weave to hide her ability.

That does not seem likely, by her thoughts (in The Path of Daggers: New Alliances):

Graendal's hand went to the only ring on the table that was not a signet, a plain golden band too small for any but her little finger. It had been a pleasant surprise to find an angreal attuned to women among Sammael's possessions. A pleasant surprise to have time to find much of anything useful with al'Thor and those puppies who called themselves Asha'man constantly in and out of Sammael's chambers in the Great Hall of the Council. They had stripped it bare of what she had not taken. Dangerous puppies, all of them, especially al'Thor. And she had not wanted to risk anyone being able to draw a line from Sammael to her. Yes, she must increase the pace of her own plans, and distance herself from Sammael's disaster.

 

Aran'gar must have been able to carry a body through an army camp and hide leaving footprints in the snow all the while.

 

Aran'gar could've destroyed the body with the Power. Much more likely then her carrying anything.

Yet "obviously" she did not, as in The Path of Daggers: Unexpected Absences:

A flicker of movement caught Aran'gar's eye, and she peered through the trees toward the army's camp, an obscuring ring around the tents of the Aes Sedai. A line of wagon-sledges was moving slowly east, escorted by men on horseback. The pale sun glinted from armour and the points of lances. She could not help sneering. Spears and horses! A primitive rabble that could move no faster than a man could walk, led by a man who did not know what was happening a hundred miles away. Aes Sedai? She could destroy the lot of them, and even dying they would never suspect who was killing them. Of course, she would not survive them long. That thought made her shiver. The Great Lord gave very few a second chance at life, and she was not about to throw away hers.

Waiting until the riders moved out of sight into the forest, she started back toward the camp, thinking idly of tonight's dreams. Behind her, smooth snow would hide what she had buried until the spring thaw, more than long enough. Ahead, some of the men in the camp finally noticed her and straightened from their tasks to watch. In spite of herself, she smiled and smoothed her skirt over her hips. It was difficult now to really remember what life had been like as a man; had she been such an easily manipulated fool, then? Getting through that swarm with a corpse unseen had been difficult, even for her, but she enjoyed the walk back.

 

the only thing we know is that the forsaken can do something to the effect, best illustrated by Lanfear disappearing on Min

 

This could just have been Lanfear Travelling. Maybe RJ hadn't decided to use Gateways yet, or there's another weave that allows one to Trave without moving. In the prologue of tEotW we see both LTT and Ishamael Travel this way.

Assuming the books don't read right is too presuming and furthermore takes away the ground from any theory: if the books are wrong, any theory is wrong. There are mistakes that RJ has admitted making, but Travelling is not one of them. He has said he has changed how he describes some things, but there is none of this Travelling without Gateways seen in the books that does not have a better explanation, this is something I have looked into. As to the prologue, Ishamael does not Travel then because he is bound in Shayol Ghul but is able to appear in the world still, which is an additional "problem" for anyone who wishes to understand how he moves about; it is not described how Lews Therin Travels, only that he does, and there is no reason he should need to think through such a thing that must be so commonplace for him.

 

That said, I cannot say there cannot be another weave to Travel, especially in the Age of Legends if these "standing waves" that were mentioned were still existing. That said, I cannot see it in Lanfear's case, for in the Dragon Reborn Lanfear did nearly the same with Egwene, while Ishamael was always a special case.

Lanfear must have special talent for illusions-- for example for Maerone, Graendal actually wears a normal dress to look in on Mat's army.

 

The closer the Illusion is to your real appearance, the more likely the Illusion are to hold. We witness this in one of Mesaana's meetings with Alviarin. Graendal simply minimized the risk of being detected. Since Lanfear already wears a white dress, she could easily disguise herself as a Novice.

Yet Lanfear has no trouble in being fat Keille Shaogi for an extended period of time.

[pxnsolid]

Now we know that Aes Sedai could never actually fly with the one power (they simply used the power to opperate sho-wings),

 

ive seen this said in a few places, but i dont recall this what so ever from the books. its stated you cannot simply lift yourself with the power. flying is something that was mentioned as lost. in tGH we see evidence of flight by lanfear. while tracking fain, uno sees the same girl in a window, and its said for her to be the same girl she would have had to fly to beat them. now obviously we know she can travel. but when rand hurin and loial are in the mirror world rand comments on impossibly straight line in the sky, just before lanfear appears fighting off the grolm with a stick. this always pointed to flying to me. now if we know for a fact that people couldnt fly, and i missed this somewhere, so be it.

[Angel of Death]

I believe it was a quote from RJ himself. Does someone know the link?

[ROB_88]

about flying,

 

i don't remember where but at one point we see Rand make a bridge of Air to walk over to an Athan Miere ship. why can't that be used to fly? just move the bridge

[Treblkickd]

i don't remember where but at one point we see Rand make a bridge of Air to walk over to an Athan Miere ship. why can't that be used to fly? just move the bridge

 

ACOS, Chapter 34.  Re-read it - Rand explains to himself in his head precisely what the limits are with this bridge of air business while he's doing it.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I am currently giving the Audio Books a go and am on tDR.

 

Little bit off topic but... I've read through the entire series about 5 times or so.  Just bought the EOTW audio book.  Looking forward to it's arrival.  Do you listen with a copy of the book in front of you or do you just listen?

[CUBAREY]

when rand hurin and loial are in the mirror world rand comments on impossibly straight line in the sky, just before lanfear appears fighting off the grolm with a stick. this always pointed to flying to me.

 

Not be be obnoxious but Lanfear is not an airplane!  Thus if she could fly she would not produce "impossibly straight lines in the sky" as her flying would not be powered by a mechanical engine.

[pxnsolid]

while i realize this. im saying its got the feel, as if it was described to give the thought. i thought it strange but the first time i read this its what i pictured before the setting kicked in.

[MikeRiley]

Just a note, Aran'gar had to carry the body out of camp because she couldn't channel. Logain would have sensed it. That was why she wanted him killed, too.

[ROB_88]

no, the straight line is probably just like the black spots on the ground, it's a strange thing that just there. it just happens in that Mirror-world just like you can walk faster (or the world is smaller). and the thing that happens when they shake theyre heads.

 

it's not logical by our standards, it's just there

[Mr Ares]

why can't that be used to fly? just move the bridge

Because walking on a bridge is not the same as flying, and because bridges don't just hang around in the sky. They are attached to the ground. So you would be walking on a bridge, which was attached to the ground.