Book 12, Book 13. Man i hope not.

[mb]

There are ways that they can shorten down the book if the wanted to. FOr example The Font sizes. In the hard backs the Font sizes are fairly large but in the paper back they are much small. If the used the paper back font size with the Hard back Page size they could cut a ton of pages out without losing any content.

 

Smaller font size could be a solution, yet there would need to be a minimum size for readers to be able to read it.

 

[MikeRiley]

They could do what they did in the previous books and cut down on the word count by removing all instances of the word "be".

[Mr Ares]

Ya it won't be years apart between books.  Look at GRRM, He wrote the "4th" book of SoIaF at about the same time, and Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons were released right on top of each.....

 

Crap

But that's not quite what happened, is it? He wrote the fourth book, but decided that the book he planned was too big, and so split it to become the fourth and fifth book. So the fifth was barely started (and heavily rewritten since, so essentially it was unstarted) when he began work on it after the fourth. The last book of WoT, if it is split, will be partially written by RJ, and there is still the possibility that the entire book will be written before the split, before any of it is published. Sanderson is working on one book, that publishers may later split. Martin was working on two books.

 

I do not want to wait 2 years to read a part two when that part has been already written.

 

That is one reason I don't read aSoIaF.

But ASoIaf doesn't have a written part two that the publishers have but are refusing to release. It has a book four that is released, and a book five that is still being worked on.

 

If they were released around the same time, maybe a months difference, no. But it never happens that way, citing my GRRM reference.

Never? A bold claim, especially for a work in such different situations. If you want a GRRM example though, I shall provide: A Storm of Swords was released in two volumes in paperback, volume one in June, volume two in the first week of August of the same year. A month or two between them. There were about three months between the two paperback volumes of To Green Angel Tower, the last book of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. A rather more obscure example now, as a Doctor Who novel, Interference, had its two volumes released on the same day, back in '99. So any claim that we would be destined to wait years between volumes is not backed up by the facts. The idea of a split is not anathema to me, and if it were split, then provided they had the entire book completed and handed in before deciding to split it, then there is no reason at all to believe we would be waiting anything more than a few months to get Book 12, part 2.

 

If they really were money grubbing bastids, they'd only offer aMoL in a built up package with all the past books in it.

No, they wouldn't. Because how many casual fans of the series would balk at paying a substantial sum for this complete collection when they already have all these books already? How many fans of the series who just cannot afford such a package would be unable to buy it? They wouldn't maximise profits like that, they would price themselves out of the marketplace. They would desire to make money as well, it is foolish to think otherwise. Not that there wouldn't be other considerations, such as stopping this monster falling to pieces on first reading, but money would certainly factor into the equation, for Tor, for Harriet, for booksellers. Split publication, with volume one following a month or so behind would be a good solution. If they wait until they have the entire book in hand before releasing any, that seems the most likely outcome.

[Tyrell]

Kaznen. A better GRRM reference would be A Storm Of Swords which is released in most countries in the world as two or more books, purely because its so very long.

 

A Feast For Crows / A Dance With Dragons is a whole different kettle of man eating sharks and flamebait.

[MikeRiley]

There would be a benefit to releasing the second half a month later, we wouldn't have the whole story spoiled for us. As it is, I intend to avoid the internet, TV and radio from about a week before the books come out until after I've finished reading them.

 

I would rather see both books released on the same day, though. Especially since I'll likely have the first half done the first day and won't want to wait 30 days to get the rest of it.

[mb]

There would be a benefit to releasing the second half a month later, we wouldn't have the whole story spoiled for us.

 

I think the releasing of each part would be longer than a month apart; half a year I think might be more probable without edits/additions of later parts.

 

[Jethro]

Brandon said on his blog there isnt enough for two.

[Jethro]

I'll second that. As long as that everything significant happens the way it was meant to and that the quality is right. If Brandon ruins this it will kill his reputation.

[Mr Ares]

There would be a benefit to releasing the second half a month later, we wouldn't have the whole story spoiled for us.

I think the releasing of each part would be longer than a month apart; half a year I think might be more probable without edits/additions of later parts.

Given my already posted examples, why?

 

I don't care how many books, pages or words it is.

My hope is that Brandon Sanderson can come close to the QUALITY that Robert Jordan gave us.

Harriet is a common thread...it will be good if she can keep everyone on track.

If they don't release until 2010 I don't care as long as it's done up to the standard that RJ has set.

IMO.

Hear hear.

 

If Brandon ruins this it will kill his reputation.

Looking on the bright side, though: if he succeeds, it could make him.

[CUBAREY]

Brandon said on his blog there isnt enough for two. ?

 

According to his blog everything up to the last battle is about 400k words (longer then any single book up to now) and the remainder is another 300k-350k (still longer then most of the books) so there is definately enough for two books. According to Sanderson the total length will be considerably greater then WAr and Peace. Sorry but to me its seems like a no brainer that MOL will be published in two volumes (at least initially, Brandon has mentioned the possibility of a limited leather bound edition of both volumes).

[GrandpaG]

I think that deep in his heart RJ would have preferred to have the magical 13 books but he realized that his remaining time would not allow it so he combined the two for the sake of the series.  Had he not gotten sick, I'd almost guarantee that there would have been 13 books.  We'll never know for sure, but that's my gut instinct.

 

I count New Spring as part of the series, so in my mind it WILL be 13 books.

[Harp_Playing_Forsaken]

I don't really care about waiting, I am just disappointed. After Jordan's comments about the 12th book being published all at once, I never doubted that it would be. So this is a little jarring.

 

Also, to those who say they like the "13" number, I think I would much more prefer that the WoT could be seen as four separate trilogies, if it had ended with book 12. The first 3 could obviously be read almost by themselves. The next three were Rand's rise to power. The next 3 were Rand losing a lot of it. And the last three were the road to the Last Battle....

 

Oh well, as long as it's good, I suppose...

[Raezold]

I have absolutely no problem with AMoL being cut in two so to say.

As long as both of the books will be published the same day. Because when it gets out, I'll take a day off and start reading. Which means that I will finish the book in a day and I would hate it if I had to wait a month or longer to be able to read the second book.

[Jonn]

Well, I've sounded off on this before, and I feel very passionate emotions about this issue. It's almost like a dream to me to get this book. It's a dream I've longed for to come true, so it means a lot to me to finally have it end AS PROMISED.

 

From RJ's comments, this was his ardent wish to give us the final volume titled A Memory of Light. I don't really feel it matters much what he felt his time with was going to be- It matters, but then again if someone wants something near the time of their death, you should respect what they feel, not trivialize it as something that's desperate. That's my feeling.

 

When I mention dreams..to get this separated into two volumes in any amount of time, it just changes the whole dynamic. It would have to be released in such a way that an a reader with average reading speed could finish one half just in time to start the next half.

 

Have you ever had a dream, where it's a great, interesting-spectacular dream that you're enjoying, but for some reason or other you wake up before it's really...complete? Say your alarm went off early or whatever, but you still had some to go back to sleep. Have you ever tried to go back to sleep and continue the same dream? It's simply not the same is it.

 

That's kind of how I'll feel if there is an extended amount of time between the possible release of two halves of this one book. It just won't be the same.

 

Sanderson has pledged to write this as one book, to approach this as one book. Granted, he's a professional and likely has contingencies if he's given an ultimatum to split this into two books, but from his interview with Dragonmount, he seems very genuine in his approach, saying that he will stick to writing this as the end, one book.

 

I wouldn't want to read it any other way. It's one book. It's the end. RJ wanted it to be the end, the great crowning jewel of his tale. Despite his condition, he worked to give us just that.

 

I just hate the idea that business must ruin his vision, his dream for this book to come together for us to enjoy the way he wanted.

 

Yes, I am idealistic, but that's no crime. Too often, I think, people settle for what's easier rather than reach for what is difficult, yet possible. Sanderson shows a lot of respect in my eyes, when he states that he wants this to be one book. He respects RJ's wishes and the tale that has given him a path.

 

If I were writing this book, I'd be doing the exact same thing. I would fight to keep this one tangible book. I'd approach it as one book and I'd want very earnestly to deliver this last book the way RJ wanted, no matter what his condition when he made the statement.

 

I think it's quite poor to speculate on what decisions would have been made had he survived his battle with his health problems. I really don't like it when people say, "Oh, Harriet and TOR would have explained to RJ this or that, and he would have agreed that it makes sense-"

That's so disrespectful. If you've ever seen someone dying, or been around someone who is dying, what they feel is what they feel. Sense and logic, and practicality...what is that? It's bargaining against the actual situation. If someone is dying, what they feel is their reality. You can't change what they feel just to make yourself feel better. You may feel that some of the things they say or feel make no sense, or you can't relate or understand, but that's not for you to judge.

You comfort them. You respect them and their wishes, because they are passing away from you. You will not see them in this life again after this. Not the way you have in the past.

If RJ had said before he passed that he thinks the ending would be ready in four more books, and that he wanted it finished in that form, I would respect that. Totally. If it took 10 years to complete, I'd wait. If he said that he did not want there to be an ending if he couldn't write it...I'd have to respect that too! Tragic and crushing as it would be, if that's what he felt, I would have to accept that.

 

What he said was well documented and he said it more than once. Respect that. He wanted it to be one last book, huge and heaving in the binding it may be, but that is what the man wanted even up to his passing. Respect that, PLEASE.

 

Brandon Sanderson does. Why can't more of us do the same?

 

I don't know, sometimes people on these boards baffle me. If you're honest with your feelings, you know deep down that you'd rather see the end sooner than later. Sad that it must be to see the end, you must know that RJ wanted it, and that it was inevitable anyway, barring the man's decision to leave it unfinished. He did not want that as it turned out and so here we are arguing foolishly about what he wanted or didn't want. It's obvious what he wanted, why muck about?

[Swigaro]

On a personal level, I want to see the series finished.  It doesn't matter to me if it is in one volume, three or one hundred.  It is and always has been about the story, not the medium.  Perhaps RJ could have strong armed publishers and bookstores to handle a 2000 page tome that came with its own wheel-barrow to transport (as RJ stated), perhaps he could not.  For me, none of that matters, so long as the story is brought to the conclusion RJ had in mind.  It isn't wrong to be idealistic, but to say you wouldn't want to read it any other way that in one volume?  That seems a bit extreem.  Remember, RJ originally intended this to be a trillogy, then 6 book, then 10.  Who's to say he wouldn't have changed his mind half way through writing.  Personally, I lament the loss of a great writer.  I am thrilled that his tale will be completed.  If I have to buy two hard-covers over the span of a few days, months or even years, so be it.  I count it a small price to pay.

[zzyzx_scarecrow]

I'd be okay if there was a book 12 and book 13 only if they were released with a short time of each other (a month at most).

 

Book 12 could be called A Memory of Light and Book 13 could be called The Wheel of Time.

 

My two cents.

[Tyrell]

Or just A Memory of Light, Part 1; A Memory of Light, Part 2.

[CUBAREY]

I don't know, sometimes people on these boards baffle me. If you're honest with your feelings, you know deep down that you'd rather see the end sooner than later. Sad that it must be to see the end, you must know that RJ wanted it, and that it was inevitable anyway, barring the man's decision to leave it unfinished. He did not want that as it turned out and so here we are arguing foolishly about what he wanted or didn't want. It's obvious what he wanted, why muck about?

 

Well you baffle many people on these boards. We all would have preferred that RJ finished the series. Further, we all wish that he would have lived a long and fruitful life. Unfortunately, he died, and did so before the series was finished. The reality is that we have several published reports that at some point before he died he had stated that if he did not want the series to be finished by anyone else. We have heard comments second and third hand frlm Harriot and others (including the Publisher of Tor who was a close friend) that he had changed his mind and wanted the series ended even if he was not the one to finish it.

 

Similarly we have all seen RJ's published comments that he wanted AMOL to be published as one volume no matter whether it would have required Tor to invent a new binding process or a wheel barrel to carry it. Did he ever express a different belief before he passed away? Or were his statements a bit of hyberbole? Neither of us know for sure. What we do know is that Harriot and his closed friends (including the Publisher of Tor) are in the best position to judge whether RJ would have felt differently if he was faced with the reality (which Sanderson, Harriot et. al.) that AMOL we likely run over 2,000 pages.

 

Having been assured by Sanderson that there is a natural break in the story around the 400k point I trust that Harriot and Tor are in the best position to decide whether it would be appropriate to publish as one or two volumes.

 

As for me, I would rather have something at hand (even if it is not the complete end to the story)earlier than later. But that's just my preference as yours is that the entire story be published in one volume. The difference is that I am willing to trust Harriot and Tors' publisher (RJ's wife and close friend) to make the right decision because they are the ones who can most reasonably be said to know how RJ would have ultimately come down on this matter and have the most invested (emotionally) in making sure that RJ's legacy is not damaged but enhanced by the publishing of AMOL in whatever form.

 

Moreover, in arriving at their decision I think that they can honestly judge whether in the final analysis RJ would have taken into account financial considerations along with artistic ones.

 

Believing that RJ did indeed want The Wheel of Time finished and that he trusted Harriot's judgment (he did after all appoint her as his estate's executor) I am willing let Harriot decide what to do.

[Jonn]

On a side note, one of the many things that baffle me about you is your insistence that Harriet's name is "HarriOt".

 

I dunno, it's just weird.  :-\

 

But anyhow...what is so baffling about what I'm saying? I want the book the way RJ wanted it to be. So what? Why does that chafe you so?

Instead of making up these weird situations where he changed his mind and all of that, like he was Hamlet-

It's kind of a trash statement.

Some people are acting like there's never been a 2000 page book published ever. Some people are acting like a long book set in RJ's world plotted by RJ is a bad thing...

 

Sanderson said it plain, several times, he's approaching it as if it were a single book. RJ did work on the beginning and the end of the book, which means he was planning one book. It's pointless to argue whether or not he would have changed his mind about this plan, because obviously he didn't get to that point did he.

 

He stated his reasons why he wanted this to be the last book, and the big reason was for us, the fans. It probably weighs in big why he decided that someone should finish this series in his absence, FOR US.

Why else would he make such statements of promise to finish this series? He wanted to follow through and give us what we've all been waiting for for so long.

 

And judging by how fast Sanderson is as a worker, I don't see it being a problem to be optimistic that he actually will be finished by his original estimate.

 

So even if he's only 80-90% done by the time of his original estimate, why not wait a few more months and read the whole thing as he meant it to be read, as one book?

 

Hell, what if he's completely done? Why would you want to wait months longer to read something that is already done and could be in your hands NOW?

 

I don't get that. Why would you purposely want to wait longer?

 

More to the point:

 

I personally hate the idea of another "set up" book. I'm over the concept of moving the characters like chess pieces. It's just been done over and over. It's conventional now in this genre. Why be so content to be conventional, in this series of all things. This series has set so many watermarks in this genre, why be so predictable? You really want to do this AGAIN? Another set up novel that will somehow get us to the point where it's finally the last battle? I'm sorry but that's disappointing to me.

You had all of these people complaining about Crossroads of Twilight, and then defenders of that book saying that it was good to have a calm before the storm set up novel. The Knife of Dreams sorta changed the momentum back to forward. I just think to pause once again will just halt the momentum. This ending has to build now, and build and BUILD some more.

I will seriously be annoyed if I'm made to wait longer than necessary to read a book that's pretty much already finished.

[CUBAREY]

On a side note, one of the many things that baffle me about you is your insistence that Harriet's name is "HarriOt".

 

Because I'm mildly dyslexic(?) and learned to spell phoneticly.  :P

 

It's pointless to argue whether or not he would have changed his mind about this plan, because obviously he didn't get to that point did he.

 

 

Unfortunately no he died (to young and with much left to do), what I'm arguing is that Harriet and Tom Doherty (his wife and Tor's publisher who was a friend) are in my opinion, in the best position to judge how RJ would have dealt with the reality of a 2000 page book.

 

Instead of making up these weird situations where he changed his mind and all of that, like he was Hamlet-

It's kind of a trash statement.

 

First, Rj was known to use hyperbole once in a while (the statement that he did not care if it took a wheel barrel to carry AMOL for instance). Second, We know for a fact RJ changed his mind several times as to how long the series would be: originally it was to be a trilogy, then six books, then ten then twelve. Faced with the realikty that the story was taking longer then he had previously imagined he frepeatedly revised his estimate on the number of books it would take. By the way Hamlet's problem is that he could not make up his mind, RJ on the other hand had to repeatedly revise his estimate based on based on the facts at hand.

 

So even if he's only 80-90% done by the time of his original estimate, why not wait a few more months and read the whole thing as he meant it to be read, as one book?

 

Sanderson's original contract was to hand over a completed draft by the end of 2008. It is now the end of January of 2009, he has completed 406k words of a first draft that he believes will total 700k to 750k words. Harriot has handed him her line edits of the first 100k of which he has redrafted 10%. At this rate we will be lucky to get the first volume (the first 4ook or so words) ready to be published by October or November.

 

He stated his reasons why he wanted this to be the last book, and the big reason was for us, the fans.

 

Actually RJ's stated reason for having AMOL being one volume was that he did not see any natural breaks in AMOL ( he wanted to finish and agreed that someone else should finish it because of the fans but that's a totally different thing not necessarily related to the number of volumes to be published). Sanderson who has written the first 406k of AMOL has stated that he sees a natural break just before TG but that its up to Harriet (spelling still seems wrong to me :))and Tom Doherty to decide whether to publish AMOL as one or two volumes.

 

I personally hate the idea of another "set up" book. I'm over the concept of moving the characters like chess pieces. It's just been done over and over.

 

Considering all the characters and subplots that have to be dealt with prior to TG I hardly think that a volume of dedicated to resolving all those things would be set-up. Moreover, while I personnally loved KOD I felt that RJ rushed to resolve certain subplots because he knew that he had so much to resolve if he was to mmet his self-imposed 12 book finish line ( the Short shrift that Galad's and the Whitecloak subplot comes readily to minds; being dealt with in just a few pages in the prologue,).

 

Some people are acting like there's never been a 2000 page book published ever.

 

Let me think, works of fiction of approximately 2000 pages? There's War and Peace by Tolstoy, then there's ....? Can you name any novels published in the last thirty years that are 1500 pages long, I cann't ("he Winds of War"and "War and Remembrence" were published in the 1971 and 1976, respectively).

 

I will seriously be annoyed if I'm made to wait longer than necessary to read a book that's pretty much already finished

 

What amuses me is that some people would delay the publication of what could be a stand alone volume  and thus defer my enjoyment of a much loved series because they insist that a statement by an author must be taken at face value to uphold the "artistic' worth of the series.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonn]

CUBAREY:

 

"Artistically" though, Sanderson is approaching the project as if it were a single book, as RJ said he was doing prior to his final decline in health, God bless him.

 

Sanderson mentioned in his interview with Dragonmount that should the authorities (Harriet and TOR Publishing) decide to split the book, he knows he has a point where he could conceivably do so and make it work, but again and again he's said that he is approaching this project as a single last book, meant to be read in one go.

 

To me breaking it up is a shame, and I'd rather experience it as a whole.

 

That's the end of the story for me on the issue of this project, A Memory of Light, being delivered in the form I prefer.

 

I'm sure there are others who share my point of view.

 

Would I read an offering that is incomplete come November? Probably, but It would still be disappointing to me to yet again be told one thing about this series coming to it's curtain's close, and have it not happen.

Independent of the quality of the actual novel, I do take stock in promises being kept, and if someone breaks a promise to me  or anyone for any reason no matter how pragmatic or reasonable it may seem, you've still given your word and proven that you were unable to keep it. Whatever the reason may be, that fact remains a fact.

 

Sanderson has promised us a work that is meant to be read in one go. I'd love to read this last book the way it was promised by both the authors who wrote it.

 

I think it's typically short-sighted to overlook the fact simply because certain people want a "fix", or are just too used to convention to be flexible with the possibilities.

[Harp_Playing_Forsaken]

Let me think, works of fiction of approximately 2000 pages? There's War and Peace by Tolstoy, then there's ....? Can you name any novels published in the last thirty years that are 1500 pages long, I cann't ("he Winds of War"and "War and Remembrence" were published in the 1971 and 1976, respectively).

 

Well, I can't list any off the top of my head but I have some softbacks on my shelf that have been fine for the last 10 years(no massive binding implosions....)....

 

Lord of Chaos - 1,000

IT - 1,100

The Stand - 1,200

 

Like I said before, they can do it if they want to. It's not like it's physically imossible. And having a fanbase that, I imagine, is quite big, I doubt it's even impossible in a financial sense. But I am sure they have their reasons, and I am not going to treat them like villians if they decide to break it into two books.

 

It's dissapointing, and I do kinda see the "it was RJ's wish to do so and so", but if Harriet decides otherwise, anyone who complains too much about it just sounds like a spoiled WoT fan that thinks they know better than the man's wife did, imho.

[Mr Ares]

Lord of Chaos - 1,000

IT - 1,100

The Stand - 1,200

Quite a difference between 1,000 and 2,000. Also, Lord of Chaos is about 389,000 words, The Shadow Rising is about 393,000, while A Memory of Light is an estimated 700-750,000 words. That's a massive difference. It's not far short of the two together. And that is the only pairing that exceeds that upper limit - TSR and KOD (393,000+315,000) works out at 708,000. The first and third longest books together are likely to work out at shorter than this monster!

[Harp_Playing_Forsaken]

Quite a difference between 1,000 and 2,000. Also, Lord of Chaos is about 389,000 words, The Shadow Rising is about 393,000, while A Memory of Light is an estimated 700-750,000 words. That's a massive difference. It's not far short of the two together. And that is the only pairing that exceeds that upper limit - TSR and KOD (393,000+315,000) works out at 708,000. The first and third longest books together are likely to work out at shorter than this monster!

 

There's quite a difference between paperback and hardback, as well. And I think if my beat up 10 year old copy of The Stand can be 1,200 pages long that they can figure out a way to fit 700,000 words into a hardcover book. All I am saying is that it's not like climbing Everest here, it's something that is perfectly doable. If they choose not to, then fine. But don't act like they can't, or that it's impossible, or that their hands are tied. Hell, the WoT is a series that is fortunate enough to have plenty of hardcore fans that would pay a rediculous price to get that last book.

 

Also, are you sure that TSR is the longest book? Both my copies of The Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos have a little higher page count. Don't have my copy of TSR handy(lent it to my cousin) but maybe it just has smaller font, or a smaller dictionary? Also, was Knife of Dreams really the 3rd longest? Sure didn't seem longer then TFoH.....

[Mr Ares]

There's quite a difference between paperback and hardback, as well.

Not that big a difference. Paperbacks, as a rule, don't have double the page count of hardback editions.

And I think if my beat up 10 year old copy of The Stand can be 1,200 pages long that they can figure out a way to fit 700,000 words into a hardcover book.

It depends on how long The Stand is.

All I am saying is that it's not like climbing Everest here, it's something that is perfectly doable.

So is climbing Everest...

But don't act like they can't

No-one is. But such a book would be very long, and Tor, from what I've heard, can be somewhat lacking when it comes to long books that can stick together. It is doable. Not necessarily desirable, though.

 

Also, are you sure that TSR is the longest book?

As sure as I can be.

Also, was Knife of Dreams really the 3rd longest? Sure didn't seem longer then TFoH.....

My mistake, must have skipped over that one. FoH is third longest, 354,000 words, knocking KoD down to fourth. Still, FoH+TSR=747,000, so still the possiblity of AMoL being longer than the first and third longest books. Still quite probably ending up more than three times the length of PoD. Still an outside chance of this being longer than TSR and LoC, if he exceeds his estimates by enough.

 

Anyway, figures are found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWoT