Best fighter in WoT without OP

[Elgee]

Rand with 2 hands ...

 

I read that as Runs-with-2-hands ...  ::)  ;D

 

There is much mention of this or that fighter being the best in a battle, but was defeated by the other participant because he underestimated him, or because of luck. To my mind, that indicates that he was NOT the best fighter.

 

Let's take Valda and Galad: "Scullface" warns Galad that Valda has a preference for one side. Galad wonders about this, since he was taught to not favour any side - Galad 1, Valda 0. It is clear that Valda is quicker and has about 20 years more experience than Galad - Galad 1, Valda 1. Despite this, Galad manages to out-think Valda - Galad 2, Valda 1. Galad kills Valda, using Valda's own weaknesses against him - Galad 3, Valda dead  :P

So who's the better fighter? Galad.

[bad company]

Rand with 2 hands could have beaten any maiden, but it would never happen cuz if they were really fighting, he would let her kill him.  Dumb bastard with dumb principles

 

I agree. His principles were ok for some time, but when he couldn't strike Lanfear DESPITE the fact that everyone was in danger around him, I said "He needs to grow out of this"

 

Most of the male characters have an aversion to killing females!!

 

 

Also another possible addition in the mix: Tuon.

When her and mat fight he was struggling against her would this indicate that she is quicker but not necessarily stronger?

[Mr Ares]

an unarmed woman intent on killing, could kill all our heroes and then sit down and trim her nails.  What I call it is suicidal chivalry.

What I call it is not reading the books properly. She might be able to kill Rand (assuming he couldn't do something non-lethal to her), but Mat, for one, is capable of killing women, even if not happy about it. Seems like Rand's suicidal chivalry is unique to him.

 

There is much mention of this or that fighter being the best in a battle, but was defeated by the other participant because he underestimated him, or because of luck. To my mind, that indicates that he was NOT the best fighter.

It depends on how you define best. Valda was carving Galad to pieces, but his willingness to toy with him rather than go straight for the kill, coupled with Galad's smarts and a healthy dose of luck gave him the win. Ryne, likewise, outclassed Lan. But, "you surrender when you're dead". Lan was able to win. Do you count the guy who wins as better, no matter how they won?

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Rake wins. Everything. Always. He is too awesome.

*Cough*Dassem Ultor*cough* Also, I think Mok or the Soldier/Knight of Death could take him.

 

Rand with 2 hands could have beaten any maiden, but it would never happen cuz if they were really fighting, he would let her kill him.

It would also likely never happen because of ji'e'toh. How much toh does killing the car'a'carn earn you?

 

Richard Rahl

 

*ducks and covers*

 

(lol)

Does he get to make a speech beforehand? If so, he wins. Death by boredom. That said, even Richard Rahl is a slave to the darkness that comes before, as is Rake. Anasurimbor Kellhus wins.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

To me it would be one who can handle multiple 'enemies' at once; Rand & Jearom & Souran are the only ones the books tell, just Rand we seen in action.

Nope.

 

We see Lan in combat with multiple enemies in New Spring.

 

It's the scene where he and Bukama are talking in the stables, Lan sees them coming, locks Bukama in the stables and unleashes the pain.

[bad company]

The best swordman is usually the one that wins, as they are normally still alive while the other is dead :P

 

However we come to another issue of personality and it's affect on the swordsman, like elgee says valda was toying with galad which would suggest a high level of arrogance, also being reflected in his pov in the book. This would therefore make him lesser despite skill because it would be counted as a weakness, which we read that galad exploits to his favour for his win.

 

If we compare that to let's say Lan (which people have compared valda to in this thread) we see someone who is just going to get on with the job, no cat and mouse games thus his sheer mindedness to win the fight no matter what is what amplifies his danger as a blademaster, also we see this in NS when he comes out of the fight against ryne and one arm is nearly cut off and he says something along the lines of 'Ryne underestimated me with one arm'.  Personally this would indicate that prehaps ryne got cocky, as well as highlighting that Lan had a greater concentration then ryne?

 

Prehaps?

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Here's something I posted a while back:

*******

 

I see it all playing out as below:

 

Rand, Lan, Galad and Gwayn are all involved in the official Dragonmount Debate-Settling Tourney. They draw lots to decide the first round: Galad vs. Lan and Gwayn vs. Rand

 

Round 1

Gwayn vs. Rand

 

Rand and Gwayn circle each other cautiously, blades held out in front of them. Both are aware that the other is an acclaimed swordsman, both sure of their own abilities. The opening exchanges are cagey, Bull in China Shop is met by Tiny Field Mouse in a Bar, One Legged Cat on a Hot Tin Roof is met by Chopsticks Grabbing Maki. Soon both combatants are bleeding from a number of small wounds. They have tested each other out and have realized they are in for a fight.

 

“I didn’t kill your mother,” mutters Rand.

 

“Yes you did,” growls Gwayn.

 

“No, I didn’t.”

 

“Yes, you did.”

 

This goes on for a while.

 

Ferocious blows are being traded, both men are nearing exhaustion when Rand makes his move.

 

“Oh, I’m sleeping with your sister, she’s pregnant, I have no intention of marrying her and I have two other women on the go.”

 

Gawyn gasps, loses concentration, and Rand runs him through.

 

Rand is healed up by a waiting Aes Sedai and advances to the next round. He takes time to wail, tear out his hair and generally feel sorry for himself after killing Gawyn.

 

Lan vs. Galad

 

Billed as the pretty boy vs. the beast, the two men immediately lay into each other with a flurry of blows. Genius Child Writing on Chalkboard is countered by Man With a Bad Case of Dysentery. Sympathetic Vomiting Syndrome is met with Nervous Dog Outside Chinese Restaurant.

 

The battle goes on in total silence for half an hour. Lan, despite being the better swordsman, has been cut 157 times, is bleeding profusely, yet shows no sign of discomfort. Finally, the uncrowned king unleashes Skydiver Who Has Just Realized That The Man Who Packed His Parachute Knows That He Is Sleeping With His Wife and nicks the side of Galad’s cheek.

 

“NNOOOO!!!!! Not the face!!!!! Anywhere but the face!!!!!” cries Galad as he claps his hands to his wound.

 

“Gutted,” grunts Lan as he slices blondie’s head off.

 

Lan is healed up, not that he really needs it, and trots off to kill the sheepherder.

 

The Finale

Rand al’Thor vs. Lan Al’Mandragoranananananan

 

The two circle each other warily for a while before the banter kicks in.

 

“So Grasshopper, you have come far,” grins Lan.

 

“Further than you know, further than you know,” mutters Rand.

 

The two men attack, using all their skill and eventually fall back after 3 and a half days of solid combat. Finally Lan manages to press home an attack, Man Playing Air Guitar to Black Sabbath’s “Paranoid”, forces Rand onto the defensive.

 

Rand is forced to employ the “Wax On, Wax Off” defensive technique, however, Lan is wise to the tactic and slices off Rand’s left hand.

 

“Ohhh … for the love of Jordan. That really stings!” gasped Rand as he staggered backward.

Rand launches one last desperate attack. He manages to catch Lan off balance and plunges his blade toward his chest.

 

“Embrace Death!” shouts Lan as he steps into the blade, swinging his own sword towards Rand’s head.

 

“Oh for the Creator’s sake! Who does that?!? Bloody Borderlanders!!!” cries Rand just before his world goes dark.

 

Lan calmly slides Rand’s sword out of his stomach. He’s taken worse wounds, it only lacerated a kidney on the way through. He’s got a spare.

[Elgee]

It depends on how you define best. Valda was carving Galad to pieces, but his willingness to toy with him rather than go straight for the kill, coupled with Galad's smarts and a healthy dose of luck gave him the win. Ryne, likewise, outclassed Lan. But, "you surrender when you're dead". Lan was able to win. Do you count the guy who wins as better, no matter how they won?

 

In a one-on-one fight, and barring extreme outside interference (a meteor falling on his head, an arrow from a hidden 3rd party, etc) - yes. It's not about who makes the prettiest poses, it's about who wins.

 

 

Rand with 2 hands could have beaten any maiden, but it would never happen cuz if they were really fighting, he would let her kill him.

 

It would also likely never happen because of ji'e'toh. How much toh does killing the car'a'carn earn you?

 

A Darkfriend Maiden who's been ordered to kill Rand might not let ji'e'toh stand in her way.

 

 

The Thin Inn Keeper, that was frigging hilarious !! *rolls on floor laughing*  ;D

 

[bad company]

Question:

How do you define the best swordman?

 

personally I think it is skill plus personality plus foresight. Depending on this mix you can get a general idea of their ability overall not just in how good they are with the blade but also without the blade

[General Cauthon]

an unarmed woman intent on killing, could kill all our heroes and then sit down and trim her nails.  What I call it is suicidal chivalry.

What I call it is not reading the books properly. She might be able to kill Rand (assuming he couldn't do something non-lethal to her), but Mat, for one, is capable of killing women, even if not happy about it. Seems like Rand's suicidal chivalry is unique to him.

 

You forget that Mat has promised himself NOT to kill another woman, which is why he almost died in Maderin. And Mat always keeps his promises.

[DemandredFO]

The Thin Inn Keeper, that was good.

[erickm001]

The Thin Inn Keeper, that was good.

Agreed. That was very good.

[Snodge]

Hello everyone, my first post!

 

Anyway, as far as swordsmanship is concerned, I'd say Lan would beat anyone. However, it seems that as "fighter" is a fairly broad term, Birgitte, as she never misses, would probably beat Lan with her bow, if combat was initiated from a distance...

[FootstepsofDeath]

The Thin Inn Keeper, that was good.

Agreed. That was very good.

I third the notion. Very creative.

[RAMb0211]

Lan could take anyone in close combat,but Mat's ability with the Ashanderei (quarterstaff) has to be taken into account. When he beats Gawyn and Galad in Tar Valon the Warder trainer (sry name slips my mind) says that the greatest swordsman who ever lived lost to a man with a quarterstaff.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Thanks to those who commented on the spoof.  :)

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Due to increasing uncertainty on the part of a minority of DM users, the 2nd Dragonmount Debate Settling Tourney was called. This time we have the defending champion, Lan Al Mandragoran, Uno, Mat, and Birgitte. Remember, Rand Al Thor, and Galad and Gawyn Trakand have already met the Creator.

 

Bout 1

Uno vs. Birgitte

 

Another beauty vs. the beast contest here folks, the gorgeous archer versus the one-eyed baldy from the North.

 

Birgitte backs away from the one-eyed wonder, loosing off arrows as she goes. After some gymnastic displays worthy of a chimpanzee on speed, Uno finally catches a broadhead in the gut. He topples backward before hitting the ground, deader than a Malkeri veil dancer at a Tovan giggle council, whatever that might be.

 

At this point the unexpected occurs.

 

WAIT. I’M UNSURE AS TO THE RULES. IS IT LEGITIMATE TO USE A BOW AND ARROW IN THIS CONTEST? WHAT, EXACTLY, CONSTITUTES THE BEST “FIGHTER” IN WOT?

 

All our participants fall to the ground writhing in agony … with the exception of Uno, who gets to his feet. Sitting in the crowd, Ingtar looks around, innocently whistling.

 

RIGHT. I’VE DECIDED, IT’S CLOSE COMBAT ONLY. NO, NO COMPLAINING, I MAKE THE RULES. AS NEITHER OF YOU ARE BLADEMASTERS, I’M NOT LOOKING FOR ANY OF THAT SWALLOW FLYING OVER A CESS PIT DURING A MOONLIT NIGHT WHILE THE BULLFROGS LOOK FOR A MATE CR*P, JUST GET TO IT.

 

ON YOUR MARKS. GO!

 

MUST RUN, BINKY’S EYEING-UP BELA AGAIN. ALFRED, GET THE PEPPER SPRAY!

 

A fresh-looking Uno trots toward Birgitte, who’s now gripping a large knife in two hands.

 

The two circle each other, with Birgitte jumping around. “Now you see me, now you don’t, now you see me, now you don’t.” This goes on for a while. Sadly for Birgitte, she’s eventually distracted by a passing serving boy (granted, he was particularly “well set up”) and Uno pounces.

 

“Bloody flaming, goat kissing twig hurling, daughter of a flaming trolloc, get ready for some flaming Shenieran steel in your guts. Mother’s milk in a cup … while it’s still warm, no, actually, week old mother’s milk in a cup.”

 

“Pardon?”

“Wot?”

“I didn’t quite understand what you said.”

 

“Oh, sorry. I’ll try again. *Ahem*. You rather nasty longbow-using woman, whose exact lineage is open to question, get ready to be stabbed in the stomach. I ended with an insult that I’ve never really got, other than it suggesting that you do unnatural things with your mother, or that you like your mother’s womanly parts at an age where you really shouldn’t, or that you still like breast milk … all of which are wrong on so many levels.”

“Oh ok, that’s better.”

 

*Squelch*

 

Uno progresses to round 2. He takes a seat near the arena and does a variety of stock actions that Shienerans enjoy, such as oiling his saddle, cleaning his horse’s hooves, and running a whetstone over his blade. And cursing.

 

Bout 2

Lan “Only has one facial expression” al Mandragoran vs. Mat “I bet that scarf of his stinks to high heaven by now” Cauthon.

 

“Do I really have to do this?”

“Yes, duty is …”

“Yeah, yeah, feather, mountain, got it.”

 

The two men start slowly before building to a whirlwind of spinning steel, flying sweat and the occasional grunt, reminiscent of Serena Williams at Queens.

 

“So, how’s married life with Nyn … Nun … Nine …. oh, however you pronounce her name?”

“I just call her Sweetcheeks, and it’s great. How’s Tuon?”

“Uhhh…. Oh, it’s a walk in the park….. Why are you laughing?”

“What’s this Prince of Ravens lark? It’s some sort of nickname, right? Like Snookums, or Toy?”

“F*cker.”

 

At this point, Lan launches into an intricate move, Man Who Takes His Sword Arm and Extends It Quite Quickly in A Straight Line At Around Chest Height Toward His Opponent’s Chest catches Mat off-guard.

 

The General quickly leaps backward, barely avoiding Lady Reading Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged And Wishing She Hadn’t Bothered Because It’s A Badly Written Load Of Pretentious Codswallop That She Only Felt She Had To Read Because That Uppity Little Git In Her Gym Keeps Telling Her That It’s Inspirational However Now That She’s Two-Thirds Of The Way Through She Might As Well Finish It And Besides She Kind of Wants To Find Out Who John Galt Really Is And When She Finishes She Can Say That She’s Read Summin’ Filosofical ‘Cos Ayn Rand’s A Filosofer Innit?

 

Lan presses home the attack, Mat improvises quickly, using the incredibly complex Duck maneuver as Lan’s blade passes over his head.

 

Amazed at the lack of a ten word description, Lan is left totally open by the “Duck” and Cauthon lunges forward with his Ashand, Ashfun, … Ashund … sword on the end of a stick, aiming for Lan’s heart.

 

At this point one of Mat’s cunningly concealed daggers becomes wedged between his third and fourth ribs, spraying blood in every direction.

 

“Oh, arse! That hurts.”

“I mean really, what sort of idiot covers himself with knives anyway? Muppet.”

 

Lan moves on.

 

The Finale

Chuckles vs. Potty Mouth

 

Uno stands up from sharpening his sword, a wry smile on his face. Lan’s waiting for him in the center of the circle.

 

Uno pauses to light up a hand rolled cigarette before engaging on his longest swear-free speech, “Oh great. Here I am. Uncrowned King and all that malarky. What did I do to deserve this? Travelled half way around the world, and here I am, about to be killed by a man with a hair band. Go on, tell me, what’d I do to deserve this?”

“Well, someone about seven posts ago claimed that you were one of the best swordsmen in WoT.”

“What?”

“WoT.”

“What’s WoT?”

“The Wheel of Time.”

“Oh, that series by Pratchett?”

“Uhhhhmmmm…..Nope.”

“But that guy talking in CAPS was Death, right?”

“No. Uhhh… actually, I’m not sure.”

“Regardless, mountain, feather time, right?”

“Yep.”

“Bugger.”

 

The ensuing fight lasts about ten seconds, Lan, bored at the lack of a challenge, decides to liven the event up by cutting off both his legs and his left arm before hobbling around spraying orange tinted paint in the air screaming “ ‘Tis merely a flesh wound!” before killing Uno using the bloody stump of his right leg.

 

That now leaves only a few contenders for Lan’s title:

 

Olver – On the basis that RJ clearly lied and he is Gaidal Caine.

Lini – Let’s face it, if anyone’s tougher than Lan, it’s her.

Bela – There’s that old rumor about the Creator and the walking glue stick….

 

Uuuuhhhh…..

Floran Gelb – On the basis that he isn’t dead yet and therefore must be at least as tough as Lan.

[Elgee]

*cheers uproariously and buys TTIK a drink*  ;D

[Mr Ares]

In a one-on-one fight, and barring extreme outside interference (a meteor falling on his head, an arrow from a hidden 3rd party, etc) - yes. It's not about who makes the prettiest poses, it's about who wins.

Or, in other words, who gets lucky on the day. In that case, the Lady favours Mat, so he is the best bet.

 

A Darkfriend Maiden who's been ordered to kill Rand might not let ji'e'toh stand in her way.

If a Darkfriend Maiden was intent on killing Rand he would hardly refrain from using the Power if there was no-one else there to stop her.

 

You forget that Mat has promised himself NOT to kill another woman. And Mat always keeps his promises.

Tue enough, but there are always non-lethal options available. And what rules out Perrin?

[the_Genghis_Khan]

This thread seems to have...

[FootstepsofDeath]

*cheers uproariously and buys TTIK a drink*  ;D

 

Seriously, someone should pay him for this stuff. Excellent!

[lordofsoup]

lol wut, keeper keep going

[agaga]

TTIK that was the funniest thing I've read in a while Fantastic bravo bravo!

 

I'd also like to add one name for consideration Lan's teacher Burkma? He was a blade master. Even though he is dead I think he would have been a match for Lan in his younger years. Just my two cents.

[Snodge]

Another thought occurs... does the Gholam sent to kill Matt count as a person? If so, I think even Lan would be hard pressed...

[bad company]

The Gholam wouldn't count as it is manufactured, thus a creation rather then a person. Adding on to the fact there are 6 of them they could be considered roughly clones.

 

But yes even lan would likely lose to the gholam as only mat has any weapon that will affect it

[Aristo]

Hi everyone, first post here.

 

I don't know how I would rank the non-channelers in a duel-type atmosphere.  But I do think this thread is missing one key 'fighter'...Elyas Machera.  Not only was he once a Warder, but he is a Wolf-Brother, and has been so for many years longer than Perrin. He also killed multiple Warders (IIRC) when leaving his Aes Sedai.  I would say he could give any of the mentioned characters a run for their money.