Christmas Mafia

[Tigara]

No one appears to be playing abnormally this game. That makes it hard to root out the mafia. :-\ Since my vote was merely vengence, I'll [glow=green,2,300]unvote[/glow]

 

Now looking at the 4 choices, pandy doesn't jump out at me and neither does Vemy. Cat is being quite usual, but to metagame, she's been mafia at least half the time she plays. Mynd, however, seems less eccentric than usual. Not much of a reason, but I'll go with it. [glow=green,2,300]Mynd[/glow]

[Myndrunner]

Hey, my last move being eccentric got me whacked....well me AND Vemy, so I'm trying to play it cool.  That's the rub about this game, when you tweak your playstyle even a bit, it looks mafia...oh sorry, SCUMMISH.  Gotta use the new words.

 

I must confess though, I am still up to my old tricks but Im a little more subtle about it.  Look how Danya deflected her importance in posting.  "Oh, you give me too much credit" and such.  See, in every game I've played or modded with her, she only posts just enough to get noticed or when called out...when she is MAFIA! 

 

Catina is the one who seemed to jump on Vemy too early....but I would like to hear back from her.  Strange that she was so active and now not.  But there is one other player that I am VERY suspicious of.  I mentioned him earlier but I'm waiting to see what he posts next.  His play style is different in this game and he's trying desperately to look innocent.

[MsDanya]

Or when i'm busy having a life outside of DM  ::)

 

I'm not even gonna bother defending myself against something like that Mynd. Deflecting my importance? Merely questioning your intentions.

[Hybrid]

Wow, that's an interesting vote by Tigara.  Mynd is acting less scummy than usual so let's lynch him?  I'm not sure I agree with that one.

 

Vemy's suggestion bears some merit.  In lieu of suspicious activity, if anyone is going to random vote this late in the game for whatever reason, or if they're going to bandwagon to see how someone reacts, they should limit their votes to those already voted for.

 

What?

 

If they limit their random vote to people who have already been voted for, then it's hardly random, is it?

 

And if they're going to bandwagon, how can they vote on somebody not already voted for?

For the first, they can pick a random vote among a smaller selection of players.  But the point is pretty much moot now.  For the second, *facepalm*

 

If we're going to be narrowing down the field, we should start by considering everybody, not just those that got a random vote. Do you agree with this?

Yes.

 

And to your second point. You say I jumped from "I like the principle, but he's excluding people from suspicion arbitrarily" to "he's protecting his scumpartners." Is this really a big logical leap? What pro-town reason is there for arbitrarily excluding people from suspicion?

The wording of your post just strikes me as odd.  There's a major section in the middle where you detail the flaws you see in Vemy's logic.  But you never mention being suspicious of him being scum, just that you disagree with his idea.  Then you go on to talk about inactivity and then all of a sudden Vemy is "likely" protecting his scumpartners.  Maybe it's just me, but that second conclusion is really strong.

 

There is a pro-town reason for this on Day 1 only, and that's avoiding the random kill in the event that no one has done anything particularly suspicious.  Of course, in this game, that doesn't matter as much, but we didn't know that when Vemy made his suggestion.  It's not in the rules page 1 (I think) and Barm's post was a little while after Vemy's.

 

But there is one other player that I am VERY suspicious of.  I mentioned him earlier but I'm waiting to see what he posts next.  His play style is different in this game and he's trying desperately to look innocent.

I assume that's me?

[Verbal32]

I haven't gotten a good read on anybody so far, but I have a #1 suspect, and also a #1 I'm sure is innocent suspect.

 

Vemy, I'm pretty sure is innocent.  On Day 1 all I can do is metagame, so I'm doing it here.  He is always very helpful, but when mafia, his "helping" tends to be more subtle and vague.  When innocent, he is thorough and direct, and I see that here so far.  Therefore, I'm inclined to think Vemy is innocent.

 

Catina is probably my #1 suspect right now, and it doesn't involve any metagaming (not that I can.....I think I've played one other game with her..).  As a few others have said, she got defensive early and jumped on Vemy, who I think is innocent.  Granted, she doesn't have the knowledge to metagame Vemy right now, so perhaps that's why I'm suspicious of her (for jumping on somebody I don't find suspicious).  And also because of that, I'm not sure I'm ready to place a vote on her.

[Myndrunner]

Ah ha! Finally he speaks!!!  The Kaiser Soze of Mafia has finally chimed in with his what have yous and what fors.  I was waiting for him to bring us that Verbage wisdom of his.

 

Here is the thing, how could you POSSIBLY have a #1 innocent suspect at this early point in the game?  Unless he was mafia with you and you were trying to protect him!  Or you know he is innocent and you are trying to buddy buddy with him so that if he gets lynched, he will be revealed as innocent and you are then seen as innocent by association.  Quite clever....but not clever enough.

 

Notice how we don't hear a peep from Verbal until after we start saying "Ya know I'll bet the mafia are inactives."  Then BOOM, we hear from Verbal. 

 

He's also setting himself up for what I like to call the Verbal Gambit.  Its not the Kivam's Gambit per se, but basically he doesn't VOTE for a guilty looking mafia buddy of his, but he tosses suspicion.  Look how he claims that Catina is his #1 suspect but he doesn't VOTE for her?  He wants us to think that he is on our side and if we end up lynching Catina, he looks innocent because she was his #1 suspect.

 

At this point, anything the inactives have to say should be seen as their attempts to look not mafia.

[Talya]

Thats not so strange doe people ot have suspicions but not vote for them straight away mynd. YOU have just done it too.

 

I would like to know why he thin ks Vemy is innocent though.

 

And Hybrid, I think what Tigs means is that Mynd is usually more off the wall than this and he has turned up innocent and yet here he is playing it all down for a change, so it makes him think he is mafia. It did cross my mind for a moment, but I couldn't see anything anymore that stood out.

 

 

[Myndrunner]

I'll admit im playing it down a bit, but thats more so because Im trying to tweak my style a bit.  Still, what I meant about Verbal is he is quite sure about Catina being mafia yet he doesn't vote her.  Me, I'm keeping my vote on Catina unless she convinces me otherwise.  Also, its quite odd that he can be so sure that Vemy is innocent.  Honestly, I only see people here as mafia and more mafia!

[cosmicpanda]

The wording of your post just strikes me as odd.  There's a major section in the middle where you detail the flaws you see in Vemy's logic.  But you never mention being suspicious of him being scum, just that you disagree with his idea.  Then you go on to talk about inactivity and then all of a sudden Vemy is "likely" protecting his scumpartners.  Maybe it's just me, but that second conclusion is really strong.

 

There is a pro-town reason for this on Day 1 only, and that's avoiding the random kill in the event that no one has done anything particularly suspicious.  Of course, in this game, that doesn't matter as much, but we didn't know that when Vemy made his suggestion.  It's not in the rules page 1 (I think) and Barm's post was a little while after Vemy's.

 

I could've been more organised with my wording. I think that's a weak reason to vote for me, though.

 

In your second paragraph, what's your point? We can consider everybody case by case; we don't necessarily need to arbitrarily exclude people from suspicion just to avoid a random kill. Sometimes there isn't much to go on, but considering what information there is is surely better than not considering them at all.

 

In any case, it looks as if we're not using Vemy's idea...

[CatinaSedai]

yay exams are done!  ok ive caught up and it seems you all are going after me here too.  i voted vemy because his post to vote talya seemed the most scummish and leading.  he wanted us to vote an inactive like talya because she wouldnt be around to defend herself.  killing her wouldnt give us anything to go on and we would still be in the dark on day 2.  think about it talya was the perfect mafia choice.

 

im sorry if i was pissy the other day in this game and the other one but i was getting frustrated and i shouldnt have vented.  its just a game and its mafia after all.  mynd is right that i need a thicker skin but oh well. 

 

i have to agree with myndrunner on one thing.  i dont find anyone very innocent looking right now.  i just find some people more guilty than others.  so how verbal who i forgot was even in this game until now shows up to say how innocent he looks is very questionable.  i also still think vemy is trying to lead us and then sit back and hide in the fray.  alright im gonna go eat dinner.  ill be back on later. 

[Myndrunner]

Ugh! EXAMS SUCK!!! I got my History one tomorrow....and as you can see, I am studying more about MAFIA than I am about the Mexican American War.  Actually a fascinating class, but.....

 

...what I find more fascinating is your post.  But I'll get to that in a minute! ;)

 

Here is the vote recap as far as I can tell, not the official MOD one so take that with a grain o salt!

 

Catina (2) - Mynd, Talya

Vemy (2) - Catina, Cosmic Panda

Cosmic Panda (1) - Hybrid

Myndrunner (2) - Thorum, Tigara

Hybrid (1) - Lia

 

*technically, Vemy still has his vote on Talya because he unvoted in red after the Green Glow Act was passed*

 

Now when you look at this, what do you see?  Or rather, what DONT you see?  That's right, Danya, Vemy, and Verbal all have been active but NO VOTES!!!  We are getting to crunch time and while they each have strong suspicions about one person or the other, they fail to vote. 

 

Now, Catina, you are much more active in this game than in games you have played before, which is a sign of something fishy....but what makes you most mafia is that you AGREE WITH ME, the person voting you!!!  Agreeing with Myndrunner often is a mafia sign on its own, but "agreeing with myndrunner" is likely your way to try and get me to unvote you. 

 

....but here is the thing.  You do have a point about Vemy...and it bothers me that he is active but still with no vote on anyone.  What are you waiting for?  He's being plum suspicious and while I still think you might be mafia....but your point about Talya being the perfect mafia target is quite sound.  He does take the leading us astray approach yet he remains unvoted?  QUITE FISHY INEEED!!!!  ...and since we need a majority and it cannot be me......*strokes mustaches*

 

[glow=green,2,300]unvote[/glow]

 

[glow=green,2,300]vote Vemy[/glow]

[Verbal32]

As Vemy has a grand total of 2 votes, I wouldn't classify me as trying to "buddy buddy" with him.  Nevertheless, I'll answer you.  This is kinda long.....

 

Look how he claims that Catina is his #1 suspect but he doesn't VOTE for her?

 

I thought I addressed that with my post?  I'll quote myself:

 

Granted, she doesn't have the knowledge to metagame Vemy right now, so perhaps that's why I'm suspicious of her (for jumping on somebody I don't find suspicious).  And also because of that, I'm not sure I'm ready to place a vote on her.

 

Didn't I explain why I'm not voting her?  Because I'm questioning myself because Vemy isn't pinging my radar at all, but apparently is for her.  So either my radar is broken, or hers is off because she doesn't need a radar in this game.

 

Thats not so strange doe people ot have suspicions but not vote for them straight away mynd. YOU have just done it too.

 

I would like to know why he thin ks Vemy is innocent though.

 

Other than making a good point directed back at you, Mynd, she asks why I think Vemy is innocent.  Again, I answered that in my post:

 

On Day 1 all I can do is metagame, so I'm doing it here.  He is always very helpful, but when mafia, his "helping" tends to be more subtle and vague.  When innocent, he is thorough and direct, and I see that here so far.  Therefore, I'm inclined to think Vemy is innocent.

 

I'm metagaming.  Not the best method, but it's Day 1.  And because I'm metagaming, that's why I haven't voted for Catina.  I could be totally reading her wrong....or not.  If I was more sure, I would vote.

 

There is simply not enough proof in my mind at this point in the game to warrant placing a vote.  If I were to vote now, it would be Catina.  But that is only on the basis of metagaming, which is bad.  But if my radar pings, then I feel the need to report it.  She was defensive, even though she's since apologized for being in a bad mood.  That she was so vehement is sometimes a tell.  I just don't have enough to go on.

 

Here's a little tidbit for you, Mynd:

 

Honestly, I only see people here as mafia and more mafia!

 

I think that's part of the problem.  You've pointed fingers and/or suggested "looking into" for at least 4 different players so far.  I could see this as deflecting.  I don't remember a game with you as a mafia here.....is your playstyle change indicative of something other than what you've stated?  See how easily accusations can be made?

 

**********

 

EDIT:  And now you've changed gears AGAIN, lol.

[Myndrunner]

Ahh yes, now THAT's the Verbal that I remember!  Good to see ya more active..... ;)

[Barmacral]

*modcoughs* That edit had better have come before you posted your response there Verbal. *evil eye!*

[Vemynal]

Mynd, I *just* unvoted Talya yesterday, I can only get on at nights after school so this is the first I've seen the thread all day. Guess i know how talya felt >.>

 

After hearing everyones opinion it sounds like me, mynd and catina are the ones that people support. Out of the 3 i think Catina has been actign oddly so I'll vote [glow=red,2,300]catina[/glow], happy?

 

You just agreed with me last night mynd that we should listen to the others, well I unvoted, asked others to give their opinions and have read them. Now we know more.

 

Vemy (3) - Catina, Panda, mynd

Catina (2) - Talya, Vemy

Myndrunner (2) - Thorum, Tigara

Hybrid (1) - Lia

Cosmic Panda (1) - Hybrid

 

@ panda- i don't mind that were not using my idea. At least it got the ball rolling^^

 

But panda- so far you claim that we should have used a better method for deciding who was to be in the group to narrow things down for the lynch. You said using my idea of those who had been voted for wasn't good enough.

 

What would you have done to decide how to narrow things down? its day 1- and at that time all we had was people spamming and making goofy votes. No serious discussions, no legit opinions, we had nothing at all to go on. So since my idea was so horrible, what would you have done different then me?

[Myndrunner]

Vemy, [glow=green,2,300]Green[/glow] votes bro!  ;D

[Vemynal]

if its really that necessary...

 

[glow=green,2,300]catina[/glow]

 

 

[Myndrunner]

If ya havin' [glow=green,2,300]glow[/glow] problems, I feel bad for ya son,

 

I got 99 problems, but ya vote ain't one!

 

 

[Vemynal]

I got 99 problems, but ya vote ain't one!

technically i *could* vote you and we'd be tied in votes mynd- so don't push your luck on the matter to hard

 

 

[Myndrunner]

Im just messin!  ;)

 

Sheesh, where is everyone else tonight?

[CatinaSedai]

mynd maybe people have better things to do with thier time than listen to you? j/k  im glad you switched your vote but it does seem a bit scummish for you to do this seeing as how sure you were of me before. 

[Myndrunner]

Honestly Catina, I was only voting Vemy to protect my own but and give him the majority, but it could just as easily be you instead.....you actually jumped on Vemy very hard! In fact.....

 

[glow=green,2,300]

unvote

 

vote Catina[/glow]

 

We can learn a lot with your coroner report! Based on all of your postings, your crankiness the other day, how fast you jumped on Vemy after contradicting yourself, and just how active you have been in this game.  I think THEE MAFIA!!!

 

[Liathiana]

talya, tig, lia, and loreina- they've responded but its was kinda spam. we have no idea what they are thinking. I know its the holidays guys but plz, if your innocent try and make a post explaining your ideas. It helps the good guys to have a discussion between more then 4 people in a 12 person game.

 

I don't even know if thorum's had the chance to read this- but when you do plz respond people

 

I'd be glad too, as soon as you start spelling out words properly rather than using chatspeak, it's rather annoying :P Btw, I've been studying for my two big finals as well as rewriting my research paper so I was very busy this weekend and tried to participate as much as possible. And I didn't have much time to actually sit and analyze my thoughts on the game for you :P

 

However, I finished my finals tonight and should be able to participate more.

 

[glow=red,2,300]unvote Hybrid[/glow] Thought I did that already but it was another Mafia game.

 

Now, the deadline is tomorrow. We don't have to vote in green, we can vote in Red, whats up with that Mynd? :P

 

Anyways, if we want to get a lynch in rather than a free mafia kill and a random lynch, the choices are between Vemy and Catina. They each have 3 votes on them. I could make things even more evenly spread by voting for Mynd, but honestly that'd be more for my sanity sake than any scummy vibes I'm getting from him.

 

Catina, I can understand how you're posting (maybe not the way you type :P ) because I tend to get upset and defensive too (ironically more when I'm innocent than when I'm Mafia but everyone suspects otherwise). You have talked a lot. And kept making vague posts that didn't really defended yourself in any kind of a productive way. Out of you and Vemy, I'm afraid you've got my vote. There is something fishy going on.

 

[glow=green,2,300]Catina[/glow]

[Loreina]

talya, tig, lia, and loreina- they've responded but its was kinda spam.

I don't spam a mafia game.

It helps the good guys to have a discussion between more then 4 people in a 12 person game.

What's to discuss?  :)

 

Vemy, your suggestion was impractical, coming as it did so early in the game. But it did serve to focus attention on those who had votes on them, which was perhaps your intent?  After all, how better to hide a mafia action than in plain sight?

 

I finished my finals tonight

This is finals week for most people, and Barm started the game earlier than originally posted, so yes, inactivity is meaningless. Which makes things just a tad bit more difficult. Ordinarily, Tig will lie low as Mafia. But this time? I just don't know.

 

We don't have to vote in green, we can vote in Red,

Barm changed it to green. I don't know why.

 

Why do I get the feeling that Mynd is trying to bandwagon Catina?

 

Know what this looks like to me?

Vemy (3) - Catina, Panda, mynd

Catina (2) - Talya, Vemy

Myndrunner (2) - Thorum, Tigara

Hybrid (1) - Lia

Cosmic Panda (1) - Hybrid

It looks like two scum trying to get an innocent lynched. Of course, the votes have changed, and will change again, but Mynd, Panda and Hybrid look very suspicious here.

[Loreina]

:-[

Sorry, very sleepy. Left off the vote: [glow=green,2,300]Mynd[/glow] , but I will consider changing it.

 

Vemy (2) - Catina, Panda

Catina (4) - Talya, Vemy, mynd, Lia

Myndrunner (3) - Thorum, Tigara, Lorei

Cosmic Panda (1) - Hybrid

 

Not voting: Verbal and Danya