What exactly IS Spirit, and what do you use it for?

[Elgee]

What exactly IS Spirit, and what do you use it for?

 

This is the element that confuses me the most. Ever since I first started reading WoT, I've wondered exactly what it is, and how it's used. Air, Earth, Fire and Water are logical - I can picture in my mind how one can manipulate these natural elements, but Spirit ... what do you use it in? What does it do, in those weaves? Why would it be used in some weaves, where it's not purely Spirit, like the Bonding or the Traveling one.

 

Recently, we've started overhauling the Weaves list over at the White Tower RP side, and I got completely stuck on some of them. It makes no sense to me!

 

I’ve done a search of WoT Encyclopaedia and Wotmania, and these were the types of Weaves I found that uses Spirit. I’ve divided them into categories that seem linked. The only one that seems out of place to me, is the Bowl of Winds (weather).

 

Many of the weaves we use at the WT make use of Spirit, mostly incorrectly, I think – but as I said, Spirit confuses me :P

 

What do you think?

 

 

List compiled from online sources:

 

Healing / Hurting :

NS,Ch2 – When Gitara collapses, Tamra Delves her with Air, Water and Spirit.

TDR,Ch15 - Healing uses Spirit, Air and Water.

TFoH,Ch35 - Nynaeve tries to Heal Birgitte with a complex weave of Spirit, Water, Air, Earth and Fire.

LoC,Ch6 - Semirhage strips her victim's clothes with Fire and Air and pulverizes them with Fire and Earth. She then uses Spirit and Fire to stimulate the pain centers.

ACoS,Ch41 - Dashiva gets angry at the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai and prepares complex weaves of Fire and Spirit for pain.

LoC,Ch29 - Nynaeve probes Logain with all five Powers, then Heals him with Fire and Spirit.

CoT,Ch14 – Monaelle teaches Sumeko Caressing the Child, weaving Spirit, Fire and Earth.

 

Emotions / the Mind:

NS,Ch23 – Moiraine uses a secret Blue Ajah weave of Spirit to induce fear in an attacker.

TFoH,Prologue - Rahvin Compels his servants with weaves of Spirit.

TPoD,Prologue - Verin's Compulsion is predominantly Spirit but has Wind and Water, Fire and Earth as well.

NS,Epilogue - Moiraine bonds Lan as her Warder with an intricate weave of Spirit.

LoC,Ch52 - Myrelle uses Spirit on her bond to Lan to make him come to her.

ACoS,Ch40 - The binder (oath rod) is activated by channeling Spirit into the number at the end.

 

 

Wards / Barriers / Shielding / Intricate weaves that can “think”:

NS,Ch19 - Moiraine weaves a ward of Spirit around Lan, Ryne and Bukama so she will know if they move during the night.

TFoH,Ch3 - Rand weaves a shield of Spirit and Fire to prevent Asmodean from leaving the room.

KoD,Ch16 – Elayne weaves Spirit to lay a Finder on Samwil Hark.

TDR,Ch27 - The barrier around Callandor is half saidin, half saidar. The saidar part is made of Air, Fire and Spirit.

TDR,Ch54 - Egwene shields Joiya the True Source with a weave of Spirit.

TFoH,Ch52 - Rand cuts Lanfear's weave with Spirit woven with Fire and Earth.

LoC,Ch55 - Rand breaks the shield on him, crushing the connections to the three Aes Sedai with Spirit. The three Aes Sedai are stilled.

KoD,Ch23 – Nacelle uses a complex weave of all five Powers to detect Narishma channeling.

oD,Ch20 - Spirit is the safest Power for testing unknown ter'angreal.

 

 

LoC,Ch49 - Rand weaves Spirit, Fire and Earth and breaks through the Aes Sedai's Illusion.

LoC,Ch52 - Elayne disguises herself with a complicated weave of Air and Fire, then masked her ability to channel with an even more complex weave of Spirit.

 

TSR,Ch10 - Rand destroys all the Shadowspawn in the Stone of Tear with a complex weave of Air, Fire and Spirit.

TEotW,Ch18 - Moiraine uses Air, Earth and Spirit to lay a false trail that fools the Trollocs and Fades.

 

 

Dreaming / Traveling:

TDR,Ch6 - Those particularly strong in Spirit can force their dreams on others as Rand does.

ACoS,Ch10 - Aes Sedai shield their dreams with Spirit.

TFoH,Ch4 - Rand shields his dreams with a weave of Spirit.

TDR,Ch53 - The hedgehog ter'angreal uses pure Spirit.

TDR,Ch53 - The Talent of Dreaming is a thing of Spirit.

LoC,Ch34 - Egwene weaves Spirit to open a gateway

KoD,Ch21 – Rand weaves Spirit and Fire to open a gateway.

KoD,Ch19 – Lews Therin weaves Spirit, Fire and Earth for Deathgates.

ACoS,Ch20 - The call box is activated by channeling Fire. It automatically draws Earth, Air and Spirit.

 

 

 

TPoD,Ch5 - The Bowl of the Winds draws all five Powers.

 

 

 

Weaves used at DM White Tower that include Spirit - should they? :

 

 

[table][tr]

[td] Name                  [/td]

[td] Air                  [/td]

[td] Earth                  [/td]

[td] Fire                  [/td]

[td] Spirit                  [/td]

[td] Water                  [/td]

[td] Description                  [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Rain Cloud      [/td]

[td] 1 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] 1 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] Coalesces water in the air to form a moisture filled cloud. Fire is used to release the moisture in the form of rain. The greater the strength in Water the larger the cloud, the greater the amount of Fire the harder the downpour. [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Whirlpool      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 2 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] The channeller Weaves Water into a body of water in a circular pattern, this then causes it to pull in on itself. The size of the Whirlpool increases as the channeller's strength in Water increases [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Summon Storm      [/td]

[td] 5 [/td]

[td] 5 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 2 [/td]

[td] 5 [/td]

[td] The size of the Storm depends on the channeller's strength in Air and Water [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Absorb Heat      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] Extinguishes a fire by drawing the heat away from the target you have aimed at. The greater the strength in Fire the more heat that can be absorbed, eventually freezing the object solid.  [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Flame Tempering      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 5 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] Fire woven into metal making it harder and stronger than normal [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Explode      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] Causes the selected target to explode. The greater the strength in Fire, the bigger the explosion. The higher the skill, the bigger the object that can be affected. [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Combust      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] Makes an object explode into flame. A thread of Spirit is woven into the object, followed by increasing weaves of Fire. [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Drown (Internal)      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] Creates amounts of water in the lungs, drowning the person.  [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Drown (External)      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] The channeller Weaves a field of Water around their opponent’s head or body, completely encasing them, effectively cutting of their air. The target ultimately drowns. (Also Drowning, but no Spirit used) [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Chain Lightning      [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] 2 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] 4 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] Lightning that strikes from one object to another [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td] Dehydration      [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] - [/td]

[td] 5 [/td]

[td] 3 [/td]

[td] Decreases the amount of water in a person’s body using a Weave of Spirit [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]      [/td]

[td]  [/td]

[td]  [/td]

[td]  [/td]

[td]  [/td]

[td]  [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

[42Bonzo88]

    First of all, great thread. This is just my opinion and I have nothing in the books to back me up. I believe that everything is made up of two distinct parts, the physical and the soul (for lack of a better term). Weather you are talking about an animal or a human, complex or primitive.  You have the body and then you have what makes the body move. I think that the Spirit is used on the Soul. Hope this helps.

[Luckers]

I disagree with 42bonzo... as opposed to two distinct parts that make up everything, I'd say five--specifically the five power.

 

The 'phyisical' after all is something of an illusion. It involves fire after all--the excitation of electrons in the production of electromagnetic waves. Though i suppose that could be termed physical.

 

My point would be however that souls in this world are tangible--we see them being manipulated, being ripped, being destroyed. That makes them as physical is an electromagnetic wave--the power of Fire directly creates electromagnetic waves.

 

Creating some form of metaphysical distinction between the reality of the soul, and the world as we percieve it makes sense in our world. Solids, Liquids, Gases and Enery provide the four powers--and within our world there is no quantifiable method of judging the soul. Thus it could be drawn that the four are seperate from the one. But, within the World of the Wheel the Soul is a quantifiable reality--dreamers manipulate them constantly, Machin Shin consumes them, Mordeth survived as one, the Dark One recycles them--we've even seen ter'angreal trap them.

 

They are therefore quantifiable and in no way distinct from earth, air, fire or water.

 

Spirit--within the context of this story--is but one of the five powers--an aspect of the power that resonates with 'soul' related matter. Just as Earth resonates with solid molecular structers, and water with liquid, and fire with energy and air with gas.

 

 

 

 

[Elgee]

That is the most understandable description of Spirit I have seen thus far, Luckers - thanks !  :D

 

How would you apply it to Weaves in a practical sense, though?

 

For instance, if you look at the first Weave I've listed below, namely Rain Cloud (Coalesces water in the air to form a moisture filled cloud. Fire is used to release the moisture in the form of rain. The greater the strength in Water the larger the cloud, the greater the amount of Fire the harder the downpour.)

 

What would the function of the element Spirit be in that weave?

[Luckers]

I'd relate it to the fabric of the wheel--spirit seems to be the very essence of the Age Lace, shifting weather patterns would involve a dramatic resequencing of the flow of the pattern.

 

Of course that is guesswork--in the long run we don't have enough scientfic evidence to say how the 'spirit' element influences the world--which is significant, because once again we are not talking of the ephemeral 'soul' of our philosophical spectrum, we are speaking of an energy as viable and present as light. In our world spirit is philosophical, in the Wheel its physical (as in bound by the laws of physics). Perhaps metaphysical and physical would do better than philosophical and physical.

 

And we just don't understand enough about its physical existance.

[Fjong]

First of all great thread...

But isn't dreaming a talent which have nothing at all to with the one power?

[SqueeEGA]

Luckers seems to be hitting the nail on the head.

 

aside from traveling, and the deathgates...sort of i guess...all the other weaves mentioned in the books that include spirit that you listed above are done w/ respect to another individual.  healing or hurting, warding...they have this common thread to living things.  it could be fixing a broken leg or stopping the transmission of their sounds.  even traveling is intended to move an individual or a group from point A to point B. 

 

all of these weaves seem to have a 'living thing' commonality.

 

 

[ROB_88]

a little off topic but, i've always wondered if it's possible to use just pure power, not being any of the elements.

 

some ter'angreals have been noted to just the power on it, without saying anytihing about certain weaves. is it possible to not use any elements at all, or would spirit be as close as it would get?

[SqueeEGA]

Pure power would probably be a conglomeration of all the 5 powers, like how pure light is a conglomerate of all the colors in the visual spectrum.  RJ did have a degree in physics after all. 

[Arath Faringal]

I would think it would be entirely possible, just not very useful except under the right circumstances.  That's what Rand did at the cleansing isn't it?  Channeled Saidin through a conduit of Saidar.  The Eye of the World was probably formed in a similar way.

[mcs0083]

Ya.

I know I'm going way off topic, but the most intriguing use of the power is traveling. Does any one know what threads of the power are used to do that? I may have known at one time, but if I did I've forgotten.

[Arath Faringal]

Spirit ;)

 

I believe it was mentioned once or twice as including fire as well, though at other times it isn't added.  Earth is used to change them into deathgates.

[Nightstrike]

I think it was females that used Spirit and males that used Spirit+Fire. Different gender seems to require different weaving and/or other approaches. Males can spread out heat and we also have different approaches to Gateways ("I bore a hole" & "creating similarities").

[mcs0083]

I see. I would have thought that it was spirit and air. Y'know, weaving the air in the area into the gate......but that's just me lol

[Elgee]

Fire makes sense: bore / drill / burn a hole in the pattern with it.

[mcs0083]

And isn't a death gate like the dark version of a gate that the forsaken create? I completely forgot about them. lol

[Lythnia Roylin]

No, deathgates open and close as they move forward, sending who/whatever goes through them to a random place, doesn't matter where, because shadowspawn can't survive going through them.

[mcs0083]

OH

I remember that happening. I just forgot the name that went with it.

[Hybrid]

aside from traveling, and the deathgates...sort of i guess...all the other weaves mentioned in the books that include spirit that you listed above are done w/ respect to another individual.  healing or hurting, warding...they have this common thread to living things.  it could be fixing a broken leg or stopping the transmission of their sounds.  even traveling is intended to move an individual or a group from point A to point B. 

 

all of these weaves seem to have a 'living thing' commonality.

That's a good point, assuming the trend is never contradicted in the books.  If you tie this into what Luckers was saying, any actions which attempts to specifically change a living being which has a soul must deal with both the physical body and the soul, so Spirit would be required for manipulating the soul.  At least, that's the theory I just came up with.

[Jethro]

I envision the Five Powers to be the substance of reality. I imagine Fire, Water, Air and Earth to represent the physical aspect of existence, whereas Spirit governs the spiritual and mental aspects.

 

I also believe Spirit to be crucial in the forwarding of time, for two reasons. The first is that, as we all know, both Saidin and Saidar-forces that drive the Wheel of Time-are channeled by those with the ability, yet a shield of pure Spirit prevents them from channeling it-Spirit can stop the forces that turn the Wheel of Time from being used by us channelers. The second is Balefire, which as all know alters history to remove the victims actions. Now Im pretty sure Rand has never specified what is required in the weave for balefire, but if Spirit isnt in there then Fire isnt either.

 

Thats just my spin on it anyway.

[Alderthal]

Hmm, you know, I always figured spirit to be the 'cement' that binds the 'bricks' of the weavings.

 

Take for example healing. Now, that uses spirit, air, and water, or spirit, air, water, fire, and earth depending on whether it's the old method of healing or the new one. But that's the thing. Why on earth would fire and water work in lieu? Wouldn't they cancel each other's effects out?

 

I think spirit is the buffer placed between the four powers. Sure, you can use any 1 powers alone (making a sword of air or incinerating a body) but for more complex weaves, you need spirit as a sort of buffer between them, at least, that's my opinion.

[Ponder]

Hmm, you know, I always figured spirit to be the 'cement' that binds the 'bricks' of the weavings.

 

Take for example healing. Now, that uses spirit, air, and water, or spirit, air, water, fire, and earth depending on whether it's the old method of healing or the new one. But that's the thing. Why on earth would fire and water work in lieu? Wouldn't they cancel each other's effects out?

 

I think spirit is the buffer placed between the four powers. Sure, you can use any 1 powers alone (making a sword of air or incinerating a body) but for more complex weaves, you need spirit as a sort of buffer between them, at least, that's my opinion.

 

hmmmm i like that idea. It was mentioned earlier that spirit is used on the Bowl of Winds. Surely this doesn't involve a "soul" (sorry i am not comfortable with that word, but it will do) of any living thing. Unless you count the earth itself - another interesting line of thought in itself. What was mentioned above by Alderthal gets around that little blip. Im not suggesting spirit isn't used on the soul, just that it is used as a "buffer" (nice word) for the other 4 as well.