Alanna and Cadsuane

[balefireruinssteaks]

I'm always smiling about the Three Oaths.  I understand why they were created and what they mean to do in that they are supposed to make the average person trust that Aes Sedai can wield the One Power in a manner that will not break the world again.

 

It sometimes seems to me that Aes Sedai are just like children; almost as soon as they speak a truth they try to find a loophole in it.  It's funny.

 

Something bothered me though.  When Alanna was talking to Cadsuane, (I don't remember the book but it was just after Cadsuane found out Alanna had bonded Rand) there was a point where she embraced the Source, and Cadsuane responded with "if you TRULY wish to be foolish...."

 

Did Alanna plan to attack Cadsuane, or was she just getting in the defensive mode?  The Three Oaths would only allow her to attack if she felt her life were in danger, and I can't think that she thought Cadsuane was going to kill her.  As unpredictable as she is, the idea of her killing Alanna is a little silly.  I just wondered if that was why Cadsuane didn't even bother to embrace saidar herself, or if she really was THAT confident that she would be able to best Alanna in a duel.

 

just curious.

[Kadere]

I'm sure Alanna was in fear of her life. Cadsuane is a rouge Aes Sedai who Alanna certainly doesn't trust, and Alanna has broken a long standing tradition (one as strong as law) by bonding a man against his will. Not only that but the man was the Dragon Reborn himself, and Cadsuane shows in ACoS that she even had the idea to bond Rand herself. So I'm sure it wasn't hard for Alanna, in a state of panic, to convince herself that Cadsuane was threatening her life.

[mb]

Actually, Cadsuane found out of Alanna bonding Rand right after meeting Rand from the Aes Sedia that were part of the rebel embassy; that was the book before the discussion takes place.  Cadsuane finding out is in Crown of Swords Chapter 19; the discussion happens in Path of Daggers Chapter 12.

 

I doubt that Alanna planned to actually attack Cadsuane.  Lifting Cadsuane with Air might have been more probable than an actual attack.

The Encyclopaedia site tells that Cadsuane has angreal and ter'angreal in her hair.  Probably those might have been why Cadsuane did not seize saidar.

 

[42Bonzo88]

    Alanna has a very fiery temper. I don't think it would have been a duel, but Alanna might have tried something. Like wrapping in air, a swat like the black sisters did to the 3 wondergirls. Cadsuane, in my opinion, is strong in will enough that even if Alanna was stronger in the power, Cadsuane would still have made her regret anything she would have attempted.

 

    Cadsuane was also telling Alanna in her own special way to grow up.

[balefireruinssteaks]

that makes sense, although I think Cadsuane is higher up enough in the Power that she might have felt anything Alanna did would be insignificant.  Moiraine was considered one of the strongest channelers and in New Spring she states that "there was only one Sister who was THAT much stronger than she in the Power" [Cadsuane, of course]

 

I do not think Alanna would have been able to do much though, considering Cadsuane's ter'angreal, angreal and sheer force of will.  Her being a Legend and all that.

[Majsju]

 

I do not think Alanna would have been able to do much though, considering Cadsuane's ter'angreal, angreal and sheer force of will.  Her being a Legend and all that.

 

I doubt Alanna knew what Cadusanes hairthingies actually did, and from Cadsuanes perspective it would be better to stop Alanna with words rather than relying on strength in the OP and ter'angreals.

[42Bonzo88]

    Agreed Majsju, the Aes Sedai try hard not to be seen fighting like two cats in a pillowcase when regular people can see. It would be fun though... ;D

[Luckers]

I personally think Alanna was just being instinctively defensive--in the same way that Moiraine was when she embraced saidar when Verin revealed she knew of Rand. She didn't have any specific ideals, she just felt under threat and reacted instinctively, the same way you might bring your hands up as if to fight with someone lunged at you unexpectedly.

 

That being said actually embracing the source with the specific intention of using it to create a weapon would not violate the oaths--it would only be in attempting to actually weave that weapon that the oaths would constrict. Nothing stops the attempt.

[trakand_01]

I was thinking about this the other day, and I'm not sure what I think about Alanna any more.

 

At first, I could understand why she had bonded Rand, but was never sure if it was purely her own decision, partly brought on by the loss of her warder, to fill the void, or if it was partly encouraged by Verin and whatever her project is. I wondered if Alanna realised taht she woudl be pretty much indispensible once she were bonded to Rand... she, and she alone could pinpoint him.

 

However, that's no longer true. Elayne, Min and Aviendha can all do the same thing. But Alanna doesnt know that. She also doesnt know that Cadsuane DOES know that. Or at least Caddy knows that Min is bonded to him, I'm not sure about Elayne and Avi.

 

So where does that put Alanna? She's not as useful as she was.

 

I have a personal theory that she will eventually be a 'battery' for Rand - what I mean by that is that he will draw on her strength (physical) during TG (along with Elayne and Avi and Min) to sustain himself in what will be a horrendously physically exhausting time. I dont honestly know why else RJ would have him bonded to SO MANY women all at once... the love square thing alone doesnt work for me.

[Jethro]

Has anyone considered that it was Rand pulling Alannas thread as Ta'veren? As a result of the bond he can sense Shadowspawn, he doesnt need to eat, drink and rest as regularly and he can survive from wounds that would normally kill a man.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

At first, I could understand why she had bonded Rand, but was never sure if it was purely her own decision, partly brought on by the loss of her warder, to fill the void, or if it was partly encouraged by Verin and whatever her project is. I wondered if Alanna realised taht she woudl be pretty much indispensible once she were bonded to Rand... she, and she alone could pinpoint him.

I think it was a bit of all the above.

 

I also think it was a bit of an ego trip. I think she believed that Rand needed guidance and controlling. That she, as a Green, was best placed to provide this on the road to TG.

 

It would also ensure that she herself was an important figure in the battles and the shaping of the world.

So where does that put Alanna? She's not as useful as she was.

Yeah ... but she is still useful to Aes Sedai. She can still be pressured into following Tower rules/protocol and therefore might be coerced into doing as they wish. Maybe.

 

Plus, it also makes her uber vulnurable to Rands enemies, if they find out. On the other hand, it means she won't be offed by any Lightersiders for fear of driving Rand up the wall.

Has anyone considered that it was Rand pulling Alannas thread as Ta'veren? As a result of the bond he can sense Shadowspawn, he doesnt need to eat, drink and rest as regularly and he can survive from wounds that would normally kill a man.

Good point...  :)

[Luckers]

Has anyone considered that it was Rand pulling Alannas thread as Ta'veren? As a result of the bond he can sense Shadowspawn, he doesnt need to eat, drink and rest as regularly and he can survive from wounds that would normally kill a man.

 

As a channeler Rand could sense shadowspawn anyway--though he did gain the other benefits.

[Shaidar_Rannow]

Okay I am returning frommy dark side of the forums to thank jethro for his post. I didnt think of that(though it WAS in front of my face lol) and it explains a tremendous amount about Rand and his current conditions. If becoming a warder incurs these changes what kind of mental state changes are automatically triggered by the bond? I mean if you think about it Rand is one dude who was kinda set on the path to be a warder anyway, he wont hurt women, and wants to protect the folks he cares about. Now he doesnt eat only sleeps if Min or another of his "ladies" is right next to him. He is now the preverbial wolf in sheeps clothing that near all warders become. Add in a bit of crazy from Sadin making his brain a bit less effective. It explains a lot about the way he acts. Sure he knows in order to save the world he has to die(or something very close to the like) and so he makes himself harder. He is just a trained warder who happens to have a crazy man in his head, not to mention that he is a bit crazy. Really clarified some things if its right.

[Mr Ares]

He is now the preverbial wolf in sheeps clothing that near all warders become.

How so? Surely they are more like a wolf in wolfs clothing?

 

I have a personal theory that she will eventually be a 'battery' for Rand - what I mean by that is that he will draw on her strength (physical) during TG (along with Elayne and Avi and Min) to sustain himself in what will be a horrendously physically exhausting time.

How? The Warder bond is one way, and this is the wrong way (they could draw on him, not him on them).

[D24g0n]

I have a personal theory that she will eventually be a 'battery' for Rand - what I mean by that is that he will draw on her strength (physical) during TG (along with Elayne and Avi and Min) to sustain himself in what will be a horrendously physically exhausting time.

How? The Warder bond is one way, and this is the wrong way (they could draw on him, not him on them).

While I don't think this will happen, I can't completely throw it out the window.  Besides the recent bondings, everything we know about the warder bond comes from experiences with channelers bonding non-channelers.  We don't really know much about a channeler-channeler bond.

[Pixiedragon]

I think you might have a point there though.

Think about it, it's not strength Rand is lacking, it's feelings Rand is lacking.

That's the whole point of the "teaching him to laugh and cry"-stuff.

So though there's no drawing-strength for Rand, those "balls of feeling" in his head might be the thing that keeps him going during Tarmon Gaidon.

[Mr Ares]

We don't really know much about a channeler-channeler bond.

Do we have any reason to suspect it is any different?

[Thor]

Can't believe you would say that  :o

 

Alanna tried to control Rand immediately when she bonded him, but failed because he was stronger in power.

If Rand couldn't channel, she would have succeeded.

 

So obviously channeler-channeler bonds are different to channeler-non channeler bond.

[D24g0n]

If I remember correctly, another example would be right after the trio bond Rand.  I think it was Aviendha who could lessen the amount of feelings she got through the bond, yet Min and Birgette(sp) could not, and thus had to drink to deafen.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Luckers]

Can't believe you would say that  :o

 

Alanna tried to control Rand immediately when she bonded him, but failed because he was stronger in power.

If Rand couldn't channel, she would have succeeded.

 

So obviously channeler-channeler bonds are different to channeler-non channeler bond.

 

Actually Alanna failed because Rand was holding saidin--men wrapped in saidin are immune to being compelled in any way--which is directly stated by Sammael.

 

The channeler-channeler bond is exactly the same--the participants are not. But only in that specific way.

 

 

[Demoncut]

Hmm.. I actually hadn't thought of the benefits of Rand receiving the warder bond from Alanna before.. just goes to show how much you can learn from others and re-reading. 

 

One thing that wasn't brought up, is what happens if Alanna is killed.  He is basically her warder, and we've seen the reactions of other warders who are bonded to an Aes'sedai that is killed.  Is that purely emotional because of the time they spent with them (which would mean it would not effect Rand since he doesn't really feel any attachment to her) or a reaction of the weave being broken, i.e he's going to go nuts.

[Ndshacker]

I prefer to think that Elayne, Allana, and Avienhia will all get sticked with spears in AMOL. But having Min will keep Rand sane enough to do what is needed.

[D24g0n]

Actually Alanna failed because Rand was holding saidin--men wrapped in saidin are immune to being compelled in any way--which is directly stated by Sammael.

 

The channeler-channeler bond is exactly the same--the participants are not. But only in that specific way.

 

Has Alanna said that was the only time she tried?  I don't remember anything that would suggest that they are the same.

[Thor]

Can't believe you would say that  :o

 

Alanna tried to control Rand immediately when she bonded him, but failed because he was stronger in power.

If Rand couldn't channel, she would have succeeded.

 

So obviously channeler-channeler bonds are different to channeler-non channeler bond.

 

Actually Alanna failed because Rand was holding saidin--men wrapped in saidin are immune to being compelled in any way--which is directly stated by Sammael.

 

The channeler-channeler bond is exactly the same--the participants are not. But only in that specific way.

 

 

 

That is really funny.  That's like saying a tennis match between Roger Federer and Random Country Boy is the same as a tennis match between Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.  The game is the same, the participants not.

 

But is the game the same? No, blatently not.

[Mr Ares]

or a reaction of the weave being broken, i.e he's going to go nuts.

Reaction and nuts.

 

But is the game the same? No, blatently not.

Yes. It is still tennis. And the bond works the same, according to all the evidence we have, except for holding saidin making you immune to compulsion - of all forms, not just the bond, which remains the same.