What Have You Noticed on the Nth Read Through?

[Mr Ares]

And I have to admit that I do not like the character of Cadsuane, so I am more apt to suspect her of nefarious things. She strikes me as being the embodiment of all the negative traits you might expect someone to develop when they have more power than anyone else. She is arrogant, petulant, and abusive. I wouldn't put it past her to have her own version of the Oath rod, a ter'angreal that slows or stops aging. People like her do not walk away from power.

Firstly, I don't think you really understand Cadsuane's character. For one thing, she is really not all that interested in power. Secondly, we have no reason to suspect she has ever been freed of the Oaths, that she knows how to free herself from them, or that she has her own Oath Rod.

 

They might decide that I should die for the greater good.

Are you sure you shouldn't?

 

The most powerful people are the ones behind the figure heads.

The Amyrlin Seat is not a figurehead.

The post of Amyrlin conveys the kind of power and prestige that most Aes Sedai would find hard to refuse, unless they had something to hide or something more important to do.

Many AS are not especially interested in power for its own sake.

[Majsju]

I'm just saying that she is ruthless, as very powerful people often are. She is quite capable of doing whatever must be done to serve her purpose, even something we would consider to be bad.

 

 

Not quite. We have seen her opinion of going too far while fighting the good cause, and to summarise, she is not a fan.

[Loreina]

Are you sure you shouldn't?

  Yes, quite sure.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The Amyrlin Seat is not a figurehead.

 

Yeah ... I kind of have to call you out on this one.  Elaida has been, and in the important ways still is, a figurehead.  Egwene won't be, but for now, Mesaana rules the Tower.

 

So ... some Amyrlin Seats aren't figureheads.  But if there is someone behind the Amyrlin Seat pulling strings (which we know has happened in the past as well) then she is as much a figurehead as any other figurehead.

 

Are you sure you shouldn't?

 

Now, now, Patrizio Kukailimoku.  That was a little harsh, don't you think?  If you aren't careful, someone might attack you with impunity!  ;)

 

 

[benr]

NO!  Put down that impunity!

[water_seeker]

I know it's probably nothing, but when Rand is presented to Morgase in tEotW Elaida refers to Logain as "the unbeliever."  The only other time I've seen that word used is in the Darkfriend creed in the prologue to tGH:

 

The Great Lord of the Dark is my Master, and most heartily do I serve him to the last shred of my very soul...Lo, my Master is death's Master.  Asking nothing do I serve against the Day of his coming, yet do I serve in the sure and certain hope of life everlasting...Surely the faithful shall be exalted in the land, exalted above the unbelievers, exalted above thrones, yet do I serve humbly against the Day of his Return... Swift come the Day of Return.  Swift come the Great Lord of the Dark to guide us and rule the world forever and ever.

 

I don't buy into the "Elaida is a DF" theory, but that whole scene with Rand makes me pause and wonder...She happens to have a foretelling as soon as Morgase asks if it is one even though even at that point we know how random foretellings are.  She swears by the Light that she can speak no clearer yet she whispers the second portion...Aes Sedai truth I know...She's arrogant to a fault obviously...but the whole scene is sketchy...

[Mr Ares]

So ... some Amyrlin Seats aren't figureheads.

If Cadsuane took it, she wouldn't be. It is not a figurehead position, even if some of the incumbents are.

 

Are you sure you shouldn't?

Now, now, Patrizio Kukailimoku.  That was a little harsh, don't you think? If you aren't careful, someone might attack you with impunity!  ;)

Quiet, you, or I'll kill you... for the greater good, of course.

[Majsju]

 

 

Yeah ... I kind of have to call you out on this one.  Elaida has been, and in the important ways still is, a figurehead.  Egwene won't be, but for now, Mesaana rules the Tower.

 

 

Well, for the greater part of the Towers existence, there has not been a forsaken sitting there messing with things, so Elaida does not quite count.

Of course, we have seen references to Amyrlins who barely had enough power to chose what dress to wear.

[RobertAlexWillis]

If Cadsuane took it, she wouldn't be. It is not a figurehead position, even if some of the incumbents are.

 

No, Cadsuane would be entirely capable of pulling strings on one though ... and by pulling strings I mean spanking into submission.

 

Of course, we have seen references to Amyrlins who barely had enough power to chose what dress to wear.

 

I know Maj, thats why I said this: "So ... some Amyrlin Seats aren't figureheads. But if there is someone behind the Amyrlin Seat pulling strings (which we know has happened in the past as well) then she is as much a figurehead as any other figurehead."

 

Are you getting back at me for stating the obvious in other threads?  :D

[Majsju]

 

 

Are you getting back at me for stating the obvious in other threads?   :D

 

Got me ;D

 

Ok, I did have a serious reason for writing it as well. The important distinction between having a forsaken pulling strings, and having an Amyrlin who is a true figurehead because she is so weak the Hall runs the show instead. Ie the kind of Amyrlin the Salidar Hall believed they got with Egwene. Man, were they in for a surprise ;D

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes, Egwene has been impressive.

[mnwhiterose]

and then she went and got herself captured. Unless you are part of the faction who believes she did it on purpose to sow her seeds of rebellion there.

 

You know, I'm finding it interesting that the "wonder girls" have received non-traditional Aes Sedai training.  I mean, Nynaeve and Elayne both received training at the hands of the Windfinders, and to a certain extent, Wise Ones.  Egwene has received extensive training from the Wise Ones. Could this be leading to a new sort of training required for Aes Sedai - that they must choose to study with a different sort of channeler?  Or if they want a high-ranking position, they have to study serenity from the Wise Ones and learn what it means to lead (or pull the strings of the leader).

 

Just a thought - I'm at work and bored right now.

[Hallow]

and then she went and got herself captured. Unless you are part of the faction who believes she did it on purpose to sow her seeds of rebellion there.

 

You know, I'm finding it interesting that the "wonder girls" have received non-traditional Aes Sedai training.  I mean, Nynaeve and Elayne both received training at the hands of the Windfinders, and to a certain extent, Wise Ones.  Egwene has received extensive training from the Wise Ones. Could this be leading to a new sort of training required for Aes Sedai - that they must choose to study with a different sort of channeler?  Or if they want a high-ranking position, they have to study serenity from the Wise Ones and learn what it means to lead (or pull the strings of the leader).

 

Just a thought - I'm at work and bored right now.

 

Or it could be done differently, learning to control and manipulate weather would be learned by windfinders (Personally thought I would never want to be considered one of their students) the ones with the dreaming talent would obviously learn to control this by wise ones and those with the healing talent could be either learnt by yellow Aes Sedai or willing members of the kin (Even though their retired :P )

[rhadamanthus]

Random thing that has irritated me a little:

 

Why has Nynaeve never just traveled to Myrelle to get the bond transfered?  Heck, she could have done that in CoS before the rebel AS left Salidar in a matter of one afternoon.  Ok, she was busy with the bowl.  But after that?  Weirdness.

[Hallow]

Random thing that has irritated me a little:

 

Why has Nynaeve never just traveled to Myrelle to get the bond transfered?  Heck, she could have done that in CoS before the rebel AS left Salidar in a matter of one afternoon.  Ok, she was busy with the bowl.  But after that?  Weirdness.

 

Cold feet about the marriage?  ;D :P

[Majsju]

You know, I'm finding it interesting that the "wonder girls" have received non-traditional Aes Sedai training.  I mean, Nynaeve and Elayne both received training at the hands of the Windfinders, and to a certain extent, Wise Ones.  Egwene has received extensive training from the Wise Ones. Could this be leading to a new sort of training required for Aes Sedai - that they must choose to study with a different sort of channeler?  Or if they want a high-ranking position, they have to study serenity from the Wise Ones and learn what it means to lead (or pull the strings of the leader).

 

Just a thought - I'm at work and bored right now.

 

I strongly doubt there would be any requirements about going to train with another group coming. However, with Egwene as the Amyrlin, we should see quite a change of attitude from the WT towards these other groups. Which would allow for a good level of cooperation. Add to this the post-TG BT, where Aes Sedai and Asha'man can start working together, like it was done in the good ol' days.

 

Too bad the ability to channel will start to disappear from mankind just as these things have started to get going ;D

 

Random thing that has irritated me a little:

 

Why has Nynaeve never just traveled to Myrelle to get the bond transfered?  Heck, she could have done that in CoS before the rebel AS left Salidar in a matter of one afternoon.  Ok, she was busy with the bowl.  But after that?  Weirdness.

 

With TG just around the corner, Nynaeve just might have other things on her mind.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I strongly doubt there would be any requirements about going to train with another group coming. However, with Egwene as the Amyrlin, we should see quite a change of attitude from the WT towards these other groups. Which would allow for a good level of cooperation. Add to this the post-TG BT, where Aes Sedai and Asha'man can start working together, like it was done in the good ol' days.

 

Yes, we might even see things like guest teachers from the Wise Ones, Windfinders, perhaps (although this would be more problematic) even sul'dam and damane, in the Tower.

 

Too bad the ability to channel will start to disappear from mankind just as these things have started to get going  ;D

 

Shhh.  People don't like to hear that.

 

Even though its true.  ;D

[Eleint]

Is it?  We are told that the Guardians will Balance the Servants post-LB.  If so, then it implies that the Power is not going to just disappear.  Let alone all the channelers that the Black Tower and the White Tower have been finding, and the fact that Seanchan didn't cull their channelers, according to RJ.

 

While channeling has to disappear eventually in order to have our period where there's no channeling whatsoever, I don't think there's any evidence, and much against, that says the next Age will be a Power-less one.

[RobertAlexWillis]

We are told that the Guardians will Balance the Servants post-LB.

 

3=3 is as much of a balance as 1000=1000.

 

Balance doesn't mean there will be large numbers of them left.  And it doesn't say for how long they will balance each other.

 

The percentage of potential channelers in the population has decreased steadily over the last 3500 years.  There is now approximately a third of the potential channelers that there once was.  This is according to RJ.

 

One of the ways to know that an Age is shifting is the appearance of new abilities and the disappearance of old ones.  New: seers like Min, Wolfbrothers/sisters, etc.  Old: channeling.  Out with the old, in with the new.

 

It will probably take a few hundred years for the ability to disappear.  The people already born with it will keep it through the end of their lives.  But the rate of people born with either the spark or the ability to learn will probably drop sharply after Tarmon Gai'don.

[mnwhiterose]

Random thing that has irritated me a little:

 

Why has Nynaeve never just traveled to Myrelle to get the bond transfered?  Heck, she could have done that in CoS before the rebel AS left Salidar in a matter of one afternoon.  Ok, she was busy with the bowl.  But after that?  Weirdness.

 

Perhaps she is already "bonded" to Lan through their Sea Folk wedding. I've had a slight suspicion that the Shipmistresses bond with their Cargomasters with the help of the Windfinders.  They have the whole thing about the boss in private vs. boss in public in order to create equality in the marriage.  I think the transferring of the bond from Myrelle to Nynaeve is merely a formality at this point.  Besides, it is Nynaeve's version of justice for Myrelle taking Lan to her bed after Moiraine's death - even after she knew Lan and Nynaeve were in love.

[arkinia]

Whoa, when did Lan sleep with Myrelle?

[Eleint]

It's pretty obviously hinted at when Egwene discovers about Myrelle having Lan's bond.  She tells him not to tell Nynaeve everything that Myrelle did and so on.

[adverge]

Whoa, when did Lan sleep with Myrelle?

 

He had a hickey on his neck when Egwene found him at Myrelle's camp, when she and Suian tricked Myrelle into believing they knew what she was up to.  Egwene hoped that he would refrain from telling Nynaeve.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I want to know how the Aes Sedai are going to balance out the Ashaman is going to jive with Egwene's vision of an all-powerful White Tower.  Also, how will it jive with Rand knowing Egwene's anger?

[Eleint]

Personally, I want to know how the Aes Sedai are going to balance out the Ashaman is going to jive with Egwene's vision of an all-powerful White Tower.  Also, how will it jive with Rand knowing Egwene's anger?

 

Was the all-powerful White Tower an actual Dream, or was it something Egwene -wants-?  I don't recall that.

 

As for he shall know her anger, I think that will come out due to him making peace with the Seanchan.  Egwene -hates- the Seanchan (for good reason granted).  I think that will majorly piss her off.

 

I just hope Rand doesn't kowtow to Egwene.  The girls' telling Rand he should swear to her as the Amyrlin make me go: Huh, what?  Why the hell does the Dragon Reborn have to swear to her?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Was the all-powerful White Tower an actual Dream, or was it something Egwene -wants-?  I don't recall that.

 

It was actually Elaida's Foretelling.  "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever."

 

She didn't really give a time frame ... and after Tarmon Gai'don, with the huge number of novices and Egwene's connections with the Aiel, Windfinders, and Kin, the Tower will indeed be stronger than ever.

 

The girls' telling Rand he should swear to her as the Amyrlin make me go: Huh, what?

 

Who said that?  I don't think any of the wondergirls has told him to swear fealty to Egwene.