Shivan the Hunter

[a pale tanned lover]

Since TG is coming up and what looks like the end of an age would anyone like to speculate on who Shivan the Hunter is, a hero of the horn whose appearance is supposed to herald the end of ages??

 

Thanks

[triadruid]

Best guess is that it represents Shiva the Destroyer, from the Hindu mythos.

[algspkr]

When he was mentioned it was with his sister.  Most theories link these two to Elayne's twins.  That guess is all I have seen.  We have no evidence that he has been reborn, or that he will be anytime soon.

[a pale tanned lover]

That does make an obscure kind of sense, the bore getting sealed, Rand dying and Elayne giving birth too the two.

[MsDanya]

It might be Elaynes children, it would be odd at least. tho I dont know who in Randland would even know they are the sibligns reborn. *shrug*

[a pale tanned lover]

Wasn't it mentioned that it was Aviendha kids that had something strange about them? Hard luck tho being a hero of the horn and only getting spun out once an age, at the end.

[MsDanya]

Oh, thats true. Sorry, my bad :P

[Ireond]

While 'appearance' could mean him being born, I feel he's out there and grown up. although I also don't think we've run across him yet.

[triadruid]

He can't be fully grown, because both Shivan and Calian were among the Heroes of the Horn who showed up at Falme less than two years ago.

 

Sorry, I misread the original question.  :-[

[a pale tanned lover]

He can't be fully grown, because both Shivan and Calian were among the Heroes of the Horn who showed up at Falme less than two years ago.

 

Yeah thats a really good point, makes a mockery of my original question :P so maybe it's after events at TG that he, and his sister make an appearance/get born, to herald the end of that age in the same way as Rand did when he was born, to herald the last battle although he wasn't acknowledged as the DR till 20 years later.

[mb]

Shivan is a Hero of the Horn.  Herald the end of the ages, that is in Crown of Swords Chapter 21.  From the paragraph::

 

So few, but all those the Wheel would spin out again and again to guide the Pattern, to make legend and myth.  Mikel of the Pure Heart, and Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask.  He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side.

 

[Ireond]

hmm

 

*shrug*

[Luckers]

You know, back in the day i thought is was Luc.

 

Seriously, people have been wondering why Gitara sent him north. It implies significance to him--furthermore his going north is the very first major action approaching the modern situation. The rest of the events that led to the Dragon being born and so forth all came after--Tigrane (his sister Calion the chooser, and Tigrane made choices that changed the world) going to the watse, Laman cutting down Avedoraldera... so on. He was the first.

 

Slayer... hunter. The herald of the end of an age, nothing says he's always a hero. Besides we know hero's of the horn can be twisted to the shadow when they wear the flesh.

 

Except that Shivan appeared at Falme, and as far as we know heroes do not appear when they are born.

[Ireond]

I was thinking Luc too.. but then you have the fact that Birgitte states that Slayer is a new occurrence, but perhaps an old evil.

[heckles]

"Besides we know hero's of the horn can be twisted to the shadow when they wear the flesh."

 

How do we know this?  I can't recall this happening or being discussed.

[a pale tanned lover]

"Besides we know hero's of the horn can be twisted to the shadow when they wear the flesh."

 

How do we know this?  I can't recall this happening or being discussed.

 

I agree, we know that the Dragon and Hawkwing have been on opposite sides in the past, but just because they or others of the horn have opposed each other doesnt make them twisted to the shadow, unless you mean influenced by the shadow unwittenly?

[Ireond]

Possibly like Hawkwing fighting the tower?

[a pale tanned lover]

Exactly, misinformed or misguided maybe, but that wouldnt mean they have been seduced to the shadow, look how bad Aridhol got and they never went to the shadow and that is taking it to the extreme. I honestly can't see any HOTH fighting for the DO ever, it would go against everything they are supposed to stand for.

[Luckers]

"Besides we know hero's of the horn can be twisted to the shadow when they wear the flesh."

 

How do we know this?  I can't recall this happening or being discussed.

 

Because heroes are like anyone else in the flesh, just more capable. If Shai'tain could do what he did to Luc and Isam, he can do it, end of game.

 

It's the same reason that Ishamael tried to turn Rand. Just because their souls are bound to the wheel doesn't mean that can't turn or be turned to the shadow.

[Tyrell]

Besides, Hawkwing could always have been speaking of a time when the heroes were called back to fight for the shadow and had the face the dragon.

[Ireond]

It's merely whoever blows the horn, isn't it..

huh.. intriguing thought that.

[Cockta]

So, who is this Shivan guy?

[a pale tanned lover]

Besides, Hawkwing could always have been speaking of a time when the heroes were called back to fight for the shadow and had the face the dragon.

 

Seems highly unlikely since before they attacked at Falme they needed the Dragon's banner.

 

So, who is this Shivan guy?

 

When Mat recognises Birgitte as a HOTH in ACOS, he has a falseback of Shivan and his sister, he is meant to appear to hearld the end of ages(or just the end of a certain age)

[Cockta]

But I still don't know who he is, I need more facts to remember him. Luckers, are you there?

[Mik]

But I still don't know who he is, I need more facts to remember him. Luckers, are you there?

But mb already posted all that RJ gave us about him;

 

Shivan is a Hero of the Horn.  Herald the end of the ages, that is in A Crown of Swords, Chapter 21.  From the paragraph::

 

So few, but all those the Wheel would spin out again and again to guide the Pattern, to make legend and myth.  Mikel of the Pure Heart, and Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask.  He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side.

And as was mentioned before too, this is Mats flashback to The Great Hunt, Chapter 47 - The Grave Is No Bar to My Call.

 

Sadly, that's all we have...  :-\

 

You know, back in the day i thought is was Luc.

When I first read Mats thoughts, my first thought was something like;

"Wierd. Mikel/Michael & Shivan and their roles remind me of Lews Therin & Ishamael. The Pure Heart and the black mask are a dead giveaway."

Yours is a better founded/ presented idea. Mine is a gut-feeling that can't be true.