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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

'Wheel of Time' world

mb

By mb
in Wheel of Time Books

spigots or caudrens  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

    • spigots
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    • caudrens
      23
    • pie spoon
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mb Master

mb

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The Wheel of Time world is our world in both the distant future and distant past. It says this, multiple times, in the books. RJ has confirmed it in interviews.

Our world is round.

The Wheel of Time world is round.

 

Sorry, but which part of this progression escapes you?

 

I repeat:: Earth based fiction does not necessarily mean round world.

If someone can provide a link where Robert Jordan explicitly tells or can show where the books explicitly tell, I would vote it.

 

Edit: Changed my vote to Undecided.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

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If someone can provide a link where Robert Jordan explicitly tells or can show where the books explicitly tell, I would vote it.

But there's no need to provide a quote from RJ as we already have the information.

 

In the Big White Book there is a picture of the world. To the west of Seanchan (the furthest state to the west) there is an ocean called the Morenal Ocean.

 

To the east of Shara (the furthest state to the east) there is an ocean called the Morenal Ocean.

 

You've got 2 options.

 

1. They are two seperate oceans, on opposing sides of a flat world, that people just happened to name the same.

 

2. They are one ocean that lies between Seanchan and Shara, i.e. the world is circular.

 

Option number 1 doesn't seem at all plausable to me.

mb Master

mb

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Changed vote to Both.  The Morenal Ocean only accounts for only one axis (the one that goes through East and West).

Unless someone can show a place that is both North and South, I think I might stick to this option.

 

Mr Ares Mentor

Mr Ares

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Changed vote to Both.
Is the "round" option somehow offensive to you? Why not go for that one? Do you object to being right? And would you mind explaining how the world went from the ball shape we have today to what you imagine (a cylinder?), and back again? In WoT, RJ has explained how we get from modern technology to the Power, more or less. But there is nothing there to imply that the world went from the ball we have today to whatever you've made up in your mind. Nor back again. How do you account for this change given the rules of the universe?
Hybrid Rising Star

Hybrid

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Changed vote to Both.  The Morenal Ocean only accounts for only one axis (the one that goes through East and West).

Unless someone can show a place that is both North and South, I think I might stick to this option.

I fail to see how a world shaped as a cylinder would have different climates at different latitudes.

Pixiedragon Newbie

Pixiedragon

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I voted "round" but after reading all this nitpicking I felt like changing my vote to "neither" and go for square-shaped.

Like in a lot of strategy games like Settlers, where you simply turn up at the other side of the map if you walk off the other side.

Fryn Enthusiast

Fryn

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It has to be round, because you can not see the entire world from any one location. For a world to be flat it means you could view all of the edges of the world with say a telescope or a channeler holding the power. If you can see a ship moving out of sight on the horizon the world is round. This was how it was first proved.

 

Given that they can not see the major cities from other major cities, it would be hard to argue WoT is flat. I mean they can't even see the Seachan island or isle of the madman from Randland.

 

Keep in mind RJ tries to keep things realistic. Round is part of the definition for a planet due to the amount of gravity it generates. Now the inhabitants of Randland might think the WoT world is flat, but thats a different question.

Mr Ares Mentor

Mr Ares

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In 13 years of reading the books, this is easily the most pointless WoT discussion I have ever come across and that is saying something.
It will take some topping. How about an "Is Caemlyn in Andor" thread - yes, no, both or undecided.

 

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I fail to see how a world shaped as a cylinder would have different climates at different latitudes.
A wizard did it?

 

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Round.... is this thread a joke?
As near as we can determine, no. Perhaps mb has some sort of roundworldphobia?
Hybrid Rising Star

Hybrid

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i think it's even physically impossible for a planet to be anything that isn't round.

with gravity, spinning etc

It's the tortoises.

 

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In 13 years of reading the books, this is easily the most pointless WoT discussion I have ever come across and that is saying something.
It will take some topping. How about an "Is Caemlyn in Andor" thread - yes, no, both or undecided.

Where is the exalt button?  Damn DM.

mb Master

mb

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This thread is not a joke and I do not fear round worlds.

 

About climate, round worlds are not the only ones that have them.  The world of Tolkien's Middle Earth is flat and has ice in the north.

 

About not seeing the edges, the view in almost any direction from almost anywhere is blocked by mountains.  Unless someone can build a tower that is high enough, the edges would not be seen.

 

 

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Unless someone can show a place that is both North and South, I think I might stick to this option.

 

A correction:: Unless someone can show that a person can reach South by traveling directly north or reach North by traveling directly south, I  think I might stick to "Both".

Majsju Grand Master

Majsju

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About climate, round worlds are not the only ones that have them.  The world of Tolkien's Middle Earth is flat and has ice in the north.

 

 

 

You should try reading Silmarillion. Tolkiens world is very much a sphere, just like WOT.

mb Master

mb

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About climate, round worlds are not the only ones that have them.  The world of Tolkien's Middle Earth is flat and has ice in the north.

 

You should try reading Silmarillion. Tolkiens world is very much a sphere, just like WOT.

 

I did read Silmarillion; at least twice.  It would be unlikely that I would remember the info if I did not read it.

 

Majsju Grand Master

Majsju

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About climate, round worlds are not the only ones that have them.  The world of Tolkien's Middle Earth is flat and has ice in the north.

 

You should try reading Silmarillion. Tolkiens world is very much a sphere, just like WOT.

 

I did read Silmarillion; at least twice.  It would be unlikely that I would remember the info if I did not read it.

 

 

Then you should know what it says about the shape of the world. A sphere. It is in the very beginning, the very first description of the world we get.

Werthead Proficient

Werthead

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Then you should know what it says about the shape of the world. A sphere. It is in the very beginning, the very first description of the world we get.

 

Actually, and I suspect this will be the only time I ever type these words, mb is right. Arda was created as a circular-shaped, flat planetoid floating in space encircled by spheres of air and ether. It remained flat up until the Downfall of Numenor near the end of The Silmarillion. As part of the ravaging of the world, Illuvatar transformed the world into a sphere at the same time he removed Valinor from the physical world (so it could only be reached by elves travelling the 'straight road' to the Undying Lands).

 

However, by the time of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings the planet was a sphere.

 

Other fantasy flat planets include Terry Pratchett's Discworld (which is a flat circle sitting on the back of four elephants who in turn are standing on top of a space-faring giant turtle) and Dungeon and Dragons' World of Greyhawk, which in D&D 2nd Edition's Spelljammer setting was revealed to be a circular flat disc orbited by a small star and moon. However, in 3rd Edition they retconned this and made the planet a sphere.

Majsju Grand Master

Majsju

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Sonofa...

See, that is why I stopped reading translated books, my copy of Silmarillion is in Swedish, and the translator apparently was not as skilled as one would hope for.

Hybrid Rising Star

Hybrid

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Arda was created as a circular-shaped, flat planetoid floating in space encircled by spheres of air and ether.

Just curious, was this before or after the Michelson-Morley experiment?  I don't remember when exactly Tolkien began writing, and I'm too lazy to look it up.  :P
Mr Ares Mentor

Mr Ares

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In 13 years of reading the books, this is easily the most pointless WoT discussion I have ever come across and that is saying something.
It will take some topping. How about an "Is Caemlyn in Andor" thread - yes, no, both or undecided.
Where is the exalt button? Damn DM.
Do you think it's in Andor or not?

 

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This thread is not a joke and I do not fear round worlds.
Shame. Those would explain a lot.

 

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About climate, round worlds are not the only ones that have them. The world of Tolkien's Middle Earth is flat and has ice in the north.
Is this really the best example? Tolkien is writing to one set of rules, RJ to another. Does RJ's rule set permit a non-round world? With the climate, geography, etc. we see in the books?

 

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About not seeing the edges, the view in almost any direction from almost anywhere is blocked by mountains. Unless someone can build a tower that is high enough, the edges would not be seen.
So one can see right across the Caralain Grass, from the Mountains of Dhoom down south to wherever? Caemlyn, say?

 

 

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A correction: Unless someone can show that a person can reach South by traveling directly north or reach North by traveling directly south, I  think I might stick to "Both".
Are we right in assuming you picture a cylindrical world? Round along one axis, straight on another? If so, this is poorly stated, as one could travel north, go over the flat bit at the top, and south down the other side, then under the bottom again. So, yes. In either a round or cylindrical world one could reach the south by travelling north. It's just there would be no horizon on the north/south axis - one could see right the way to the edge of the world, barring anything in the way such as mountains. So if we have any references to a horizon this would be disproved. Not that it isn't anyway, but it might make you realise it was disproved. Of course, we shudder to think what shape you will come up with next. Any bets? Cube? Dodecahedron? Bowl? Dyson sphere? A planet in the exact same shape as Wales, only much larger?
Hybrid Rising Star

Hybrid

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In 13 years of reading the books, this is easily the most pointless WoT discussion I have ever come across and that is saying something.
It will take some topping. How about an "Is Caemlyn in Andor" thread - yes, no, both or undecided.
Where is the exalt button? Damn DM.
Do you think it's in Andor or not?

I may have to go with both. 

Werthead Proficient

Werthead

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Just curious, was this before or after the Michelson-Morley experiment?  I don't remember when exactly Tolkien began writing, and I'm too lazy to look it up.  :P

 

After. The experiment was in 1887, Tolkien was born in 1892 and began writing The Silmarillion in 1917.

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