'Wheel of Time' and 'Lord of Rings' parallels (potential spoilers)

[mb]

I am not sure if this is the right section or not.

 

This thread is to discuss parallels and/or similarities between both series.

Several notes before I begin::

-Some things in either series might not have a thing to correspond to the other.

-All of my upcoming comments are merely speculation.  I am not sure if Robert Jordan had any of the things in mind when writing about them.

 

Now I will begin.

About creatures:

-Ogier are kind of similar to Ents; both have a motto of not being hasty and both can cause considerable damage when angry.

-Trollocs are kind of similar to Trolls; Trollocs look similar to Ogier and Trolls look similar to Ents, both serve the dark side.

-Myrddraal are kind of similar to the Nazgul; both are shaped like men, both use fear as a weapon, both are leaders on the dark side.

-Shaidar Haran could probably be considered as the top Myrddraal, which would make him equivalent to the Lord of the Nazgul.

-Draghkar could be similar to those winged steeds, yet the only similarity I see between them is that they are flying creatures on the dark side.

 

About characters:

-Rand could be considered similar to Frodo; both are the main character, both have/had a sort of burden for some time (Frodo, the Ring; Rand, saidin's taint), both have a task to do (Frodo, destroy the Ring; Rand, fight Dark Lord at Tarmon Gai'don).

-Rand could also be considered similar to Aragorn; both are leaders with multiple titles, both have several gifts (Rand, channeling & sward fighting; Aragorn, tracking & healing).

-Padan Fain could be considered similar to Gollum; both have a sort of intense hatred, both sort of track the main character.

-Padan Fain could also be considered similar to Saruman; both sort of leaders, both temporarily on the dark side then on their own side.

-Moiraine could be similar to Gandalf; both are sort of adviser and/or guide for the main character and/or for other characters, both had a sort of fall, in the event of falling both fought something/someone and both were relocated to somewhere else.

-Min could be similar to Galadriel; both sort of have a special kind of perceiving, Min's viewings sort of similar to Galadriel's mirror.

-Egwene is sort of similar to Eowyn; both sort of fighters, both temporarily in love with one character then afterward in love with another (Egwene, Rand then Gawyn; Eowyn, Aragorn then Faramir).

 

That is all I have for now.

If you read both series (any portion), you may comment on the things I brought up and/or bring up other similarities.

Those who read only one or neither series, I would prefer that they refrain from commenting.

 

[lordofsoup]

read all 3 eragon books recently and the guy clearly read RJ and JRR Tolkein, RJ expanded off tolkien but that guy pretty much took characters and changed the names a bit to make them a little different

[Indiangangster]

RJ started off the series with a bit of lotr element to it to give the readers familiar starting ground. Later after the readers were hooked, he started to move away from the lotr(i would say as early as book 3/4), although he put certain references to lotr in the later books (like the fact that rand' favorite book is the "the ring" or the how one of the asha'man calls himself "mr.underhill". Anyways if you find a something that is related to lotr in the later books, it is problem a stretch or not on purpose.

 

i disagree about the following:

Ents: i think they resemble the green man(i think that his name....) more than ogiers.

trolloc: a lot of books have orc like characters.....hmmm i think your right about this one though.

fades: hmmm maybe, i never thought about this one

Shaidar Haran: kinda of a stretch to compare him with the nazgul leader imo

Draghkar: definitely a stretch, lots of books have flying creatures

Rand: no way, i see very little resemblance between him and aragon. Lan on the otherhand.......i also see very little resemblance between him and frodo, except maybe for the fact that rand is "cursed" (and that is debatable). Rand is pretty unique

Fain: definately agree with you there with the gollum thing but no way with Saruman

Moiraine: maybe, idk about this one. She was kinda like gandalf in the first book and moved away from him a lot in the the 2 book.

Min: no way, that is stretch. min is min, i don't know how else to explain it

Egwene: no way, that is stretch. egwene is egwene, i don't know how else to explain it

 

 

[Indiangangster]

read all 3 eragon books recently and the guy clearly read RJ and JRR Tolkein, RJ expanded off tolkien but that guy pretty much took characters and changed the names a bit to make them a little different

OMG i totally agree with you there. i hate CP for that. he even took the names from lotr and used them in his book......wtf

and for rohan i woulnd't be suprised if his eyes turned yellow in the next book, yah CP copied that much off perrin

and there is so much other stuff that CP copied of WoT, like the concepts of wells.

[DemandredFO]

For inheritance Paolini copied of everybody, Tolkien, Lucas, Brooks, RJ and many others; yes I noticed the roran/perrin thing too.  Most authors may get concepts from each other or inspiration and go from there but CP took and didn't change.  I know there is a website on all the stuff he stole from StarWars out there.  I read brisingr because I was hoping he would get some originality, no such luck.  Now as for the original topic there are loads of threads out there on lotr and Dune comparisons and there are a few threads on the mythologies behind the various characters.

[Hybrid]

For inheritance Paolini copied of everybody, Tolkien, Lucas, Brooks, RJ and many others; yes I noticed the roran/perrin thing too.  Most authors may get concepts from each other or inspiration and go from there but CP took and didn't change.  I know there is a website on all the stuff he stole from StarWars out there.  I read brisingr because I was hoping he would get some originality, no such luck.  Now as for the original topic there are loads of threads out there on lotr and Dune comparisons and there are a few threads on the mythologies behind the various characters.

 

Nice, an Eragon bashing!  I *hate* Eragon because the plots of the books are exactly Star Wars and the setting is pretty much an LOTR/WOT hybrid.  Wheel of Time might have started out with a LOTResque plot, but RJ proved his creativity in later books.

[Darth_Andrea]

I believe that RJ said in one of his interviews that he designed Eye Of The World stylistically to feel like Fellowship Of The Ring. For familiarity to the reader and from the audio Interview with him on the CD sets I think he kinda wanted to explore what he thought should have happened between the hobbits and Gandalf. "You Must save the world...come with me. Oh...Really...Here sit down have a pint I need to um...yeah Be right back" and sneak out the back door lol. Not a exact quote but close to the example he uses in that audio interview. 

 

 

Darth_Andrea   

[SoulCollector]

Perrin= Merry combined with Pippin

In he Great Hunt they stayed at an Inn called The Nine Rings.

[Hybrid]

Perrin= Merry combined with Pippin

In he Great Hunt they stayed at an Inn called The Nine Rings.

And Karldin went by the name "Mr. Underhill" in one of the later books (WH?).  RJ had a few little homages to Tolkien in there.

 

Btw, Perrin is an actual name.  Though interestingly enough,

The boy's and girl's name Perrin \p(er)-rin\. Feminine form of Peter (Greek) "rock" or Peregrine (Latin) "wanderer".

Peregine is the full name of Pippin.

[SoulCollector]

I hear ya, I just thought it was interesting the way that worked.

[Arath Faringal]

Peregrine is also a species of falcon.  Faile :P

 

Moiraine came off as a Gandalf like character for the first two books.  Different order of events, but still similar.

 

If anything gets compared to the Ents it has to be the Green Man, not the Ogier.

[lordofsoup]

green man = ents

ogier = kinda ents

[Hybrid]

Well, the Green Man is most like the Ents in appearance.  However, the Ogier are like the Ents in manner (don't be hasty and all that) and age.

[Sila Darklover]

Myrddraal aren't exunctly like Nazgul (more numerous, mortal, killable and handsome, to begin with) but they definitely seemed similar in TEoTW.  Black-cloaked phantom horseman lurking on a country road and radiating evilness...just like the "Black Riders" in Fellowship of the Ring.

 

Perrin's name may sound like Pippin's, but their personalities are pretty different IMO.

 

Fain might be more Gollum-like than any other WoT character (though Gollum also share's Suian's fish obsession) but is a squintillian times less cool.

 

 

[Hybrid]

Myrddraal aren't exunctly like Nazgul (more numerous, mortal, killable and handsome, to begin with) but they definitely seemed similar in TEoTW.  Black-cloaked phantom horseman lurking on a country road and radiating evilness...just like the "Black Riders" in Fellowship of the Ring.

 

Perrin's name may sound like Pippin's, but their personalities are pretty different IMO.

 

Fain might be more Gollum-like than any other WoT character (though Gollum also share's Suian's fish obsession) but is a squintillian times less cool.

You like eyeless men?  ;D

 

Gollum and Siuan, I like that comparison.

[Snowy Dawn]

Hybrid:

 

``Gollum and Siuan, I like that comparison.''

 

Why? Gollum is incapable of love, for example, Siuan all too capable. I can't see any resemblance between them at all....

 

But there is one comparison that seems good to me, viz. Boromir and Elaida. Or perhaps Denethor (sp?) and Elaida.

[Hybrid]

Hybrid:

 

``Gollum and Siuan, I like that comparison.''

 

Why? Gollum is incapable of love, for example, Siuan all too capable. I can't see any resemblance between them at all....

'Twas a joke.  I'm not that far off my rocker yet. ;D

[RAND AL THOR]

The OP's list is somewhat off. I disagree with most of the character comparisons. Frodo is nothing like Rand. Of course they both have a burden, (what sort of Main Character doesn't?)- that's typical in all fantasy.

 

 

I also disagree with the drakhar/ winged steeds. Considering the vast number of dragon like creatures in fantasy, that is not a similarity.

 

I agree with the nazgul/myrdraal. That is something I found disappointing in WoT.

 

I would equate trollocs to orcs, though trollocs are significantly less intelligent. (Also, I found the very term 'trolloc' somewhat lame. Don't jump on me for this, its my opinion, but it just made me laugh. The way it is derived from the way 'troll' is just amusing. the ending 'oc' is just like 'orc' lol)

 

I am much more concerned with the BEGINNING of the EotW which is disappointingly similar to LOTR. Despite liking the series, I do not buy RJ's story. Never before have I heard of an author starting a series astonishingly similar to another 'just to make the reader feel comfortable in the world' etc etc.....  Fantasy authors who build up their own worlds must have the talent of gripping the reader. There should not be ANY need to draw in the reader by creating similarities with other famous works. The confusing part is that RJ did have the talent, but chose to do this.

 

To tell the truth, I would expect a very poor standard writer to make such a comment, and remain baffled to this day why RJ did so.

[Sila Darklover]

Myrddraal would be better with eyes, but I'm not complaining  ;D

 

I was only comparing Gollum to Siuan in terms of their fish fetishes.  Otherwise they're not much alike.

 

Yah, Dragkhar aren't analogous to Nazgul steeds.  Aside from the wings, they look very different (and way, way hotter).  And I haven't heard of anybody riding them.

[Mr Ares]

Myrddraal aren't exactly like Nazgul (more numerous, mortal, killable and handsome, to begin with).

You like eyeless men?  ;D

Well, I'm in with a shot.

 

I would equate trollocs to orcs, though trollocs are significantly less intelligent.

Trollocs are also substantially larger than Orcs, which tend to be smaller than humans.

 

To tell the truth, I would expect a very poor standard writer to make such a comment, and remain baffled to this day why RJ did so.

I would expect an honest writer to say it. Plenty of fantasy writers (or non-fantasy writers) have done similar things, to a greater or lesser extent. Did they acknowledge that they were doing it? There's plenty of LotR rip-off stuff out there. Those writers were doing just that. In fact, the first big selling fantasy since LotR (Sword of Shannara) was pretty blatantly stealing from JRRT. It could be a benefit, in terms of getting published and read, to be like Tolkien. People who read LotR rather than fantasy could be lured in with such a ploy, getting them interested before going off to do your own thing (or not, as the case may be).

[RAND AL THOR]

That's just the thing.

 

The typical author who rips off LOTR does so because the book is so inspiring.

 

Perhaps LOTR was exceptionally inspiring to RJ too, and he started off with it as a 'guide.' However, his book developed by itself and turned into something that no one can ever call and LOTR rip off. In such a circumstance, he could have edited the beginning to make it more unique. That is, of course, assuming that LOTR provided the needed inspiration to get the EOTW going. There is no need to make the reader feel comfortable and all that. And good fantasy book is going to reel in the audience.

 

 

And this book was out before the sudden LOTR craze. True- the book's been popular for decades- but the audience for LOTR was significantly smaller in the time of the Eye's printing when compared to today.

[Forever]

On a somewhat unrelated note...

The Three Oaths remind me of Asimov's Three Laws.

[lordofsoup]

another gay quote from eragon "the 13 forsworn"

 

how gay i mean the guy should be sued for copyright infringement

[DemandredFO]

If everyone who could sue Paolini over stealing did no one would have time for anything else.

[Hybrid]

If everyone who could sue Paolini over stealing did no one would have time for anything else.

Got 'em!