Rand lord of balefire??

[Arath Faringal]

Each trolloc is still a thread in the pattern though.  Burning away an army of 10,000 trollocs will burn just as many threads as burning away 10,000 humans.  You can't even say they are less important. 

 

Say this army of trollocs had slaughtered an entire city of humans a day before.  The pattern has woven those people out of the pattern. 

 

Now some sa'angreal toting channeler goes off and balefires the trolloc army, burning them away 24 hours. (probably a bit too much time to be realistic, but for arguements sake lets role with it)

 

All of a sudden you have massive repercussions.  10,000 threads are burnt out of the pattern, all of their recent actions with them.  And 10,000 threads that were no longer part of the pattern are suddenly reintroduced, with all of the past actions that they would have done, but couldn't do.  I personally don't know much about weaving a tapestry, but I can't imagine that burning out a past section, and re-adding a pattern with threads that had already been cut can be very easy.  Or good for the overall strength of your pattern.

 

Yes, it is true that if 10,000 humans were balefired, there would probably be even more backlash since their threads are more intertwined, but regardless, balefire creates gaping holes in the pattern that can't entirely be erased.

 

As far as the patten repairing itself, I don't think it really can be done.  Re-weaving the past doesn't seem possible.  But reality can restabalize by having a period of normal, balefire free weaving.  If you're weaving a pattern and burn holes all over it, it won't be very strong at first, but the further away you move from that damaged time, the stronger it gets.

[Calantyr]

If it's the same Trollocs we're talking about (The ones Rand Balefires in the Caemlyn Palace that brings Asmodean, Mat, and Aviendha back to life) then yes, it's actually not that big a deal.

 

It's a few dozen Trollocs in the courtyard at most and what's more they've been keeping a low profile for days so as to not alert the whole of Caemlyn to their presence, that means no rampaging around killing and eating everyone. The rest are killed by the Aiel or frozen/incinerated by normal fire. Rand could probably nuke the ones in the courtyard back in time by a few days with little consequence, not that I think he has the strength to do it by more than an hour or two at that point if that. 'Little' being a relative term when you're talking about the very fabric of reality, of course.

 

When I mentioned the Pattern healing itself I didn't mean the strands being re-woven or anything, as far as I know Balefire removes that possibility. But over time the damage done has less impact as the Pattern compensates. Ta'veren are thrown out to weave the Pattern back in the desired direction, for example. If you could 'look back' into the history of the Pattern you'd probably see ragged holes all over the place.... but over time they become smaller as new pieces are added to the end.

 

I imagine that if somehow enough Balefire was used to destroy an entire continent there just wouldn't be enough left to work with to continue weaving the Pattern, or if there were it would be incredibly weird. You might end up with the weirdness found in Mirror Worlds. Suddenly the world gets an acidic atmosphere or some of the fundemental laws of physics change and complex molecules can no longer form. Wierd-arse stuff that's hard to imagine, let alone survive.

 

Considering the Dark One is outside Creation and wants to re-make it in his image I wonder what his precise thoughts on Balefire are.

[sillyman]

Ok so i guess im a bit of the mark with my impression of the pattern but i always thought of it as a three dimensional thing.

 

Time, people and places?

[DemandredFO]

Calantyr, I don't know if you mispoke but just to be clear it was super-balefire on Rahvin that brought Mat, Aviendha and Asmo back.

[Mr Ares]

The Amyrlin has a secret library, Siuan mentions it at some point. It's conceiveable that Moiraine learnt about Balefire from that.

More likely she learnt it during her stay with Adeleas and Vandene.

[Luckers]

The Amyrlin has a secret library, Siuan mentions it at some point. It's conceiveable that Moiraine learnt about Balefire from that.

 

Moiraine had no access to the Thirteenth Depository.

 

Beyond which Moiraine directly linked the fact that she had become more dangerous since entering Emond's Field with her use of balefire, hence she learnt it since Emmond's Field. As such it seems far more likely she learnt it whilst with Adeleas and Vandene. We even know from Egwene that its possible to figure out how to use a weave from a description--Egwene does it with the weave for cuendillar--so Moiraine having read a description of it whilst with Adeleas and Vandene's library is more than enough.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I think the amount of damage balefire has on the pattern depends on one or two things. The amount of threads burnt out by it at one time or the importance of a particular thread to the pattern.

[GrandpaG]

The Amyrlin has a secret library, Siuan mentions it at some point. It's conceiveable that Moiraine learnt about Balefire from that.

 

Moiraine had no access to the Thirteenth Depository.

 

Beyond which Moiraine directly linked the fact that she had become more dangerous since entering Emond's Field with her use of balefire, hence she learnt it since Emmond's Field. As such it seems far more likely she learnt it whilst with Adeleas and Vandene. We even know from Egwene that its possible to figure out how to use a weave from a description--Egwene does it with the weave for cuendillar--so Moiraine having read a description of it whilst with Adeleas and Vandene's library is more than enough.

 

 

When she wasn't busy tending her rose garden, Caddy could have dropped off her copy of "The Basics of Balefire" with the sisters who have been around nearly as long as her (I wonder if they were novices together whispering through the secret holes in the walls?).

[Ndshacker]

Basics of Balefire?  ;D I wonder if they actually ever made a boook like that  ???

 

Some novice is reading it, "And meld fire into the weave like so..." All of a sudden shes got the hole in the wall. "Psst, i just figured it out."

 

"Really, show me"

Another hundred holes later...

 

"One more time."

[Hybrid]

You are the biggest spammer alive...

 

You consider that spam?  If it's relevant to the discussion, it's not spam in my books.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Aren't you spamming right now then? By talking about something totally unrelated to WoT? Aren't I spamming by bringing that up?  :o

[Hybrid]

Aren't you spamming right now then? By talking about something totally unrelated to WoT? Aren't I spamming by bringing that up?  :o

 

Yes, you just spammed.  Wait a minute... damn it!  I spammed too.  ;D

[Luckers]

Calm down, all of you. Ndshacker, your comment was directly disruptive and quite frankly a violation of forum codes of conduct. If you have a problem with the way someone is posting PM Maj about it.

 

In the meantime back on topic...

 

When she wasn't busy tending her rose garden, Caddy could have dropped off her copy of "The Basics of Balefire" with the sisters who have been around nearly as long as her (I wonder if they were novices together whispering through the secret holes in the walls?).

 

Caddy is too old--she would have been Accepted at the very lest before Adeleas and Vandene approached the Tower, and Aes Sedai before they were Accepted.

 

Beyond which I see no reason why Adeleas and Vandene could not have discovered the information themselves--after all they are the researchers, not Cadsuane. I'm guessing they probably didn't even know that they had.

[Hybrid]

Just want to clarify my last post.  It was not a sarcastic attack at Ndshacker, it was a joking post that followed along with Asha'man Kovan's last post.  I know the lack of smileys made it ambiguous.  :P

 

EDIT: And I put a smiley in, so the tone can't be misconstrued.

[Ndshacker]

sorry, it originally meant to be sarcastic and as hybrid so rightly stated [quote}

I know the lack of smileys made it ambiguous.  :P