How long did the Age of Legends exist?

[GrandpaG]

The "Third Age" (Age of the WoT series) seems to be somewhere in the area of 3,000 years old.  How many years did the Age of Legends last?  Was it also about 3,000 years?  Is each spoke of the Wheel of Time evenly spaced?  Are all ages about 3,000 years?

 

Along that same line of thought, did the Age of Legends start out with it's people knowing how to channel?  Did they have 3,000 years to develop their skills?  Or, did they not learn how to access the One Power until say 1,500 years into their age?

 

If they had 3,000 years to experiment and learn, that might explain why one of the most powerful and most respected Aes Sedai at the end of that age would be trying to bore a hole into the realm of the Dark One even though she was not at that time evil yet (she was LTT's girlfriend, right?).  Maybe it was a curiosity thing?  Maybe she had learned all of the "normal" stuff and needed to expand her horizons?  Why else would an otherwise upstanding citizen of such a grand society do such a thing?  I don't remember reading or hearing at DM that she had been seduced into creating the Bore.  I doubt that it was accidental.  My gut tells me she was bored.  Like a child playing with matches in a hayloft...she caught the barn on fire.

 

Could the Age of Legends Aes Sedai have made all of their discoveries in less than 3,000 years?  Or, did knowledge from the Age before the Age of Legends get handed down (no "Breaking of the World" to lose the knowledge)?  I wish there was an "Age of Legends" book as a prelude to the series.  That could have been an awesome series of it's own.  No, I'm not drunk or on drugs...just rambling...humor me...I'm older than I once was.  :)

[Majsju]

Noone, except maybe those with access to RJs notes knows how long the AOL lasted.

 

As for when people learned to channel, the first channeler marked the transition from the First Age to the AOL.

 

Lanfear creating the Bore (togetehr with others in the research team) was purely an accident. She and the rest of the team believed that they had found a new way of tapping into the True Source, a way that allowed male and female to use the same power without linking. Needless to say, they were wrong.

She was however most definitly not "seduced", she really believed they were onto something that would prove to be good for society.

[benr]

The Bore looks alot like poisoned fruit.

[Hybrid]

The Bore looks alot like poisoned fruit.

 

Indeed.  Garden of Eden, anyone?

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

ages can be any length of time(the 3rd age is ~3K years long, however, the 4th age may only be 50 years long).  not too sure whether or not each age is the same length every turning of the wheel though.

 

lanfear thought she had found a unisex power source and believed that with men and women using the same power, even greater things could be accomplished than with the OP.

[Werthead]

For my WoT RPG campaign someone asked how long the Age of Legends was and I thought a good amount of time was 10,000 years. Not sure why, but the AoL Aes Sedai seem to have very little clue what was going on in the 1st Age, and given their superior technology I throught such a huge span was the only way to explain why so much knowledge was lost.

 

People could also channel before the end of the First Age, as they created the Portal Stones before the Age ended. However, we also know that the First Age is our age, due to the (heavily corrupted) references to Mother Teresa, Moscow and the Apollo 11 mission, not to mention the Mercedes-Benz hood ornament in the Panarch's Palace.

 

My theory on how the Age of Legends began was that we, at the moment in 2008 AD, are about 100-200 years away from the end of the First Age. In the near future the ability to channel is discovered through genetic engineering. Many of the first people who learn to channel die due to the lack of training, but enough survive to master their abilities. The nations use them as weapons, ushering in a time of chaos and destruction. The Portal Stones are created at this time. This period ends when the channellers themselves rebel against their overseers and use the One Power to enforce peace upon the world. They become the Aes Sedai and usher in - possibly forcibly with the Power - an age of peace. The Ogier also turn up around this time, probably from a Portal Stone world.

 

Of course, if this theory is correct it means that First Age lasts for about 2 million years (since the emergence of intelligent human life), the Second Age for 10,000 according to my guesstimate but perhaps only 4,000-5,000 at a minimum and the Third Age for between 3,400 and 3,700 years (depending on how long the Breaking too place, or if you count the Breaking as part of the Second or Third Age). The Big White Book does say that the Ages of the WoT do not have to be equal in length though.

[GrandpaG]

The Finns are our age's spacemen riding around in flying saucers and abducting humans for study.  They help guide us toward creating the portal stones.  They teach future tainted male Aes Sedai how to grow the Ways.  The Finns are behind it all and are older than time itself.  They were spun out on the very first revolution of the wheel.  After a few million years they learned about the Nym living in a parallel universe and reasoned out how to put them to use in the Age of Legends as crop growers aided by the Ogier and Aiel who were also from other space/time locations.  How do I know all of this?  I just made it up.  Isn't imagination a wondrous thing?  Even works for old farts like me.  :)

[Mr Ares]

Of course, if this theory is correct it means that First Age lasts for about 2 million years (since the emergence of intelligent human life)

Actually, I think we're still waiting for that.

[Luckers]

Actually, I think we're still waiting for that.

 

Nah, that happened a few years back. Of course when it did the individual was summarily killed, and all was right once more in the world.

[Werthead]

The Finns are our age's spacemen riding around in flying saucers and abducting humans for study.  They help guide us toward creating the portal stones.  They teach future tainted male Aes Sedai how to grow the Ways.  The Finns are behind it all and are older than time itself.  They were spun out on the very first revolution of the wheel.  After a few million years they learned about the Nym living in a parallel universe and reasoned out how to put them to use in the Age of Legends as crop growers aided by the Ogier and Aiel who were also from other space/time locations.  How do I know all of this?  I just made it up.  Isn't imagination a wondrous thing?  Even works for old farts like me.  :)

 

Where we don't have hard data from the books, theories are all we have to go on.

 

However, we do know for certain that the First Age is our age, that the portal stones (and thus the Power) were in use at least at the end of the First Age and that the Ogier are not native to the WoT world (since they're not around today, plus some of the things Loial says in KoD).

 

The flaw in your theory is that we also know (from the Big White Book) that that the Aes Sedai created the Nym for their own purposes in the Age of Legends ;)

[GrandpaG]

I was being silly.

People sometimes misunderstand my warped sense of humor.

Sorry.

:-[

[algspkr]

I have asked myself this question and came to believe that it must have lasted well over 15,000 years.

 

The ages must last long enough so that anything that is known of the previous age becomes questionable, often unbelievable stories.

 

The Age of Legends had long lived channelers and a good records system, and those two facts are what I based my 15,000 year estimate on.  Figure a life span of 600 years that means that 25 full channeler lifespans passed.  This is not a particullarly large number as if you use an average life span of 60 years for us the equivelent time period would put us at the fall of Rome.

[Tyrell]

Probably more than 600 years. We have Kin who have been said to live over 600, and IIRC there was no indication that they were especially strong in the power. I could see someone right at the top end like Lanfear or Lews Therin living to closer to a thousand years.

[Luckers]

No, the longest a channeler can live is around 750 years (as per both RJ and comments within the text from Moghedian)--and thats with the excellent health coverage and sung-food of the Age of Legends that saw normal people into their second century. In modern times i dont see someone even of Rand's strength reaching those sort of numbers. I'd say 650 tops.

 

But in any case i agree with the sentiment--definately more than 600 years.

[Charlz Guybon]

No, the longest a channeler can live is around 750 years (as per both RJ and comments within the text from Moghedian)--and thats with the excellent health coverage and sung-food of the Age of Legends that saw normal people into their second century. In modern times i dont see someone even of Rand's strength reaching those sort of numbers. I'd say 650 tops.

 

But in any case i agree with the sentiment--definately more than 600 years.

You'd be surprised how long a person can live in a premodern society. John Adams and Ramses II reached 91, and it wasn't just the mighty. I read in Adam's biography that a neighborhood girl that he grew up with also reached 91 years of age.

[GrandpaG]

With my family history, I don't plan to live much beyond 80 tops.

 

I can't imagine channeling for 500-750 years....I'm afraid I might get tempted to take over the world or something! >:D  Those AS must have had very strong self-control.  Oh.  Wait.  They DID control the world!  Never mind.  ;)

[Luckers]

You'd be surprised how long a person can live in a premodern society. John Adams and Ramses II reached 91, and it wasn't just the mighty. I read in Adam's biography that a neighborhood girl that he grew up with also reached 91 years of age.

 

Which is still not the 160 to 200 of the average non-channeler in the Age of Legends. Premodern, modern--we don't have the fancy sung-food, clean atmosphere or healthcare of the Age of Legends.

[GrandpaG]

we don't have the fancy sung-food, clean atmosphere or healthcare of the Age of Legends.

 

 

Yet.

 

 

Gives our scientists something to aim for, right?

[Aaronjw]

Here's a fun theory, pertaining to the whole "how and when the one power is discovered" thing:  What about all the people in our day with much-doubted telekinetic abilities?  Could these people essentially be "wilders"?  Just throwin' that out there.

 

Also, I have a question that's been bugging me, and I don't feel like posting a topic on it:  How do people know when one age ends and another begins?  I don't think there's a breaking at the end of every age.  Is the beginning of a new age marked by some great discovery, or something?  Or does someone just say "OK, guys, time for a new age!!  Let's party!"  ;D

[Roxinos]

Here's a fun theory, pertaining to the whole "how and when the one power is discovered" thing:  What about all the people in our day with much-doubted telekinetic abilities?  Could these people essentially be "wilders"?  Just throwin' that out there.

 

Highlighted portion explains why they cannot be "wilders." :-p

 

If someone were to arise that had the ability to channel, they would have no problem in proving it. Even if they had the limited control of a wilder.

 

Also, I have a question that's been bugging me, and I don't feel like posting a topic on it:  How do people know when one age ends and another begins?  I don't think there's a breaking at the end of every age.  Is the beginning of a new age marked by some great discovery, or something?  Or does someone just say "OK, guys, time for a new age!!  Let's party!"  Grin

 

I had this very discussion with Luckers once. They are typically marked by events. The discovery of channeling marked the end of the First Age and beginning of the Second. And if I recall correctly, the formation of one of the calendars (can't remember which) marks the beginning of the Third Age. The Breaking exists somewhere in between the end of the Second Age and the beginning of the Third.

[Luckers]

Yet as Thom says, not every great cataclysm marks the end of an age, not can every age end in a cataclysm. I mean the Trolloc Wars were pretty damn blunt.

 

I'd say its defined by a moment of change. Wherein something comes to be that wasn't before, or perhaps something that previously was ceases to be. The Trolloc Wars were devestating and caused destruction, but in the end things simply reset themselves--society went on in the same path with nothing new and nothing less.

 

But, the First Age ended with the appearence of channeling, the Second Age ended with the loss of saidin. Beyond which there seems to be transitionary periods that belong to neither age--a very Bauildriard thought, that.

 

Of course these could all simply be human concepts and be nothing more than theoretical paradigms... who knows. RJ probably did, but we don't know enough to know anything for sure.

[GrandpaG]

Sometimes the Wagon is climbing a steep grade so it takes a long time for the Wheel to turn and the Age in contact with the ground lasts a long time.  When the Wagon reaches a plateau and levels off the Age that is active at that time doesn't last as long.  When the Wagon heads down the other side the Ages fly by quickly.  Once in the valley, they steady out again.  Just depends on the terrain.  What is the wagon hauling?  TR?  Universes?  Who is driving the Wagon?  The DO?  Creator?  It's being pulled by a horse called Saidin and his sister Saidar.  Take away the drivers and the Wagon will keep going without direction and probably crash into a tree or dive off from a cliff causing the Wheel to eventually stop.  Take away one or both of the horses and the Wheel will slow down or stop.  Hit a rut so the Wheel falls off the Wagon and it might roll for a while on it's own, but it will eventually fall over and stop turning.  Is it any wonder that the drivers get bored and have to play the Fisher game to stay awake?  What do the horses feed on?  Do they make road apples?  Isn't human imagination a wonderful thing?  Do chimpanzees have active imaginations?  Pigs?  Dogs?  Dolphins?  What do those creatures think about time and it's passage?  Did I drift slightly off topic somehow?  Surprise!!!  :)

[Werthead]

I had this very discussion with Luckers once. They are typically marked by events. The discovery of channeling marked the end of the First Age and beginning of the Second.

 

Except it didn't. The Portal Stones existed before the end of the First Age and need the One Power to operate, ergo they needed the One Power to be built, ergo channellers appeared some time - decades at least - before the First Age actually ended. I know RJ said once that the appearance of channellers ended the First Age, but I don't think he meant the second the very first channeller appeared the First Age ended. In my RPG game I used the founding of the Aes Sedai as the demarcation event between the First and Second Ages.

 

As for the precise ending of the Second, I thought RJ once said it was the death or gentling of the last male channeller from the AoL that marked the proper end of the AoL? Or am I misremembering that?

[algspkr]

Yet as Thom says, not every great cataclysm marks the end of an age, not can every age end in a cataclysm. I mean the Trolloc Wars were pretty damn blunt.

 

I'd say its defined by a moment of change. Wherein something comes to be that wasn't before, or perhaps something that previously was ceases to be. The Trolloc Wars were devestating and caused destruction, but in the end things simply reset themselves--society went on in the same path with nothing new and nothing less.

 

But, the First Age ended with the appearence of channeling, the Second Age ended with the loss of saidin. Beyond which there seems to be transitionary periods that belong to neither age--a very Bauildriard thought, that.

 

Of course these could all simply be human concepts and be nothing more than theoretical paradigms... who knows. RJ probably did, but we don't know enough to know anything for sure.

Interesting, could the cleansing of Sadin mark the birth of the Fourth age?

 

I had this very discussion with Luckers once. They are typically marked by events. The discovery of channeling marked the end of the First Age and beginning of the Second.

 

Except it didn't. The Portal Stones existed before the end of the First Age and need the One Power to operate, ergo they needed the One Power to be built, ergo channellers appeared some time - decades at least - before the First Age actually ended. I know RJ said once that the appearance of channellers ended the First Age, but I don't think he meant the second the very first channeller appeared the First Age ended. In my RPG game I used the founding of the Aes Sedai as the demarcation event between the First and Second Ages.

 

As for the precise ending of the Second, I thought RJ once said it was the death or gentling of the last male channeller from the AoL that marked the proper end of the AoL? Or am I misremembering that?

In the Age of Legends the Portal Stones were studied, but not fully understood.  Further the fact that they have been damaged by nature indicates that in all likelyhood they were not made with the One Power, most things (possibly everything) we have seen made from the One Power require the One Power to destroy them.  And if they were not made with the One Power it is doubtful that they were meant to be used with it.  Imagine taking a clock built a thousand years ago and sticking an electric motor into it, the clock will work, but it was not designed to function that way.

[Mr Ares]

Actually, I think we're still waiting for that.

Nah, that happened a few years back. Of course when it did the individual was summarily killed, and all was right once more in the world.

I missed it? Damn.