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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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Vassili
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Seriously gets everything about this series wrong. Did the people who wrote it up even read the series?

 

Yes, cheers, four times in the last 13 years ;)

 

Unless you meant the version prior to this one, which was a bit threadbare. I've beefed it up since then to better reflect the style of entries such as that for Lord of the Rings (which is the gold-standard for fantasy book series on Wikipedia, since it was made an Article of the Week for the whole site, which is considered a great honour). Also, the previous version was rather spoilerphobic, which violated Wikipedia policy of not concerning itself with spoilers. That said, whilst the article still doesn't exactly spoil anything - it doesn't even say which character is the Dragon Reborn - I did feel it important to mention some plot elements like the Seanchan and Children of the Light the prior version left out.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

Seriously gets everything about this series wrong. Did the people who wrote it up even read the series?

Yes, cheers, four times in the last 13 years ;)

Ooohhhh!!!!!!!! That's awkward!  ;D

 

*Stands back and watches the tumbleweed drift down the road.

 

I think it's pretty good. A quick and easy recap on everything. It's a good resource, easily available; if you don't like it, join the editorial side and work on it.

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Seriously gets everything about this series wrong. Did the people who wrote it up even read the series?

 

Yes, cheers, four times in the last 13 years ;)

 

Unless you meant the version prior to this one, which was a bit threadbare. I've beefed it up since then to better reflect the style of entries such as that for Lord of the Rings (which is the gold-standard for fantasy book series on Wikipedia, since it was made an Article of the Week for the whole site, which is considered a great honour). Also, the previous version was rather spoilerphobic, which violated Wikipedia policy of not concerning itself with spoilers. That said, whilst the article still doesn't exactly spoil anything - it doesn't even say which character is the Dragon Reborn - I did feel it important to mention some plot elements like the Seanchan and Children of the Light the prior version left out.

 

Good job! :)

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Sorry to anyone here who edited the Wiki site about WoT, I doubt you guys messed up. But you aren't the only ones who edit it. When I made this thread I had just read the Wiki page on tEotW

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_World

 

Consider this paragraph:

 

"The Eye of the World

The Eye of the World is in a hidden location in the Blight created by the male and female Aes Sedai after the Dark One tainted saidin. It was created using both saidin and saidar (the male and female halves of the Power respectively), and is protected by Someshta. It houses a pool of pure, untainted saidin, as well as one of the seven Seals on the Dark One's prison, Lews Therin's Dragon Banner and the Horn of Valere. Moiraine brings the party here to help discover which one of the three ta'veren can channel (thus discovering which one of them is the Dragon Reborn). It is during the battle with Aginor and Balthamel that Rand channels consciously for the first time. Balthamel is killed by Someshta, and Aginor is killed by drawing too much of the power. Aginor and Balthamel are two of the Forsaken."

 

Aginor does not die from drawing too much of the power- Rand kills him. And Moiraine doesn't take them to tEotW to discover who can channel, or if she does it is a poorly supported theory.

 

This is just an example.

 

 

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Aginor does die by drawing too much of the Power. They both link to the Eye of the World, and Aginor gets angry that Rand is also drawing from the Eye. He says it is his and he begins to draw more and more in his anger. It eventually burns him out and destroys him much in the same way that Lews Therin killed himself.

 

Suddenly he felt something, saw it, though he knew it was not there to see. A glowing rope ran off from Aginor, behind him, white like sunlight seen through the purest cloud, heavier than a blacksmith's arm, lighter than air, connecting the Forsaken to something distant beyond knowing, something within the touch of Rand's hand. The rope pulsed, and with every throb Aginor grew stronger, more fully fleshed, a man as tall and strong as himself, a man harder than the Warder, more deadly than the Blight. Yet beside that shining cord, the Forsaken seemed almost not to exist. The cord was all. It hummed. It sang. It called Rand's soul. One bright finger-strand lifted away, drifted, touched him, and he gasped. Light filled him, and heat that should have burned yet only warmed as if it took the chill of the grave from his bones. The strand thickened. I have to get away!

 

"No!" Aginor shouted. "You shall not have it! It is mine!"

 

Rand did not move, and neither did the Forsaken, yet they fought as surely as if they grappled in the dust. Sweat beaded on Aginor's face, no longer withered, no longer old, that of a strong man in his prime. Rand pulsed witht he beating of the cord, like the heartbeat of the world. It filled his being. Light filled his mind, till only a corner was left for what was himself. He wrapped the void around that nook; sheltered in emptiness. Away!

 

"Mine!" Aginor cried. "Mine!"

 

Warmth built in Rand, the warmth of the sun, the radiance of the sun, bursting, the awful radiance of light, of the Light. Away!

 

"Mine!" Flame shot from Aginor's mouth, broke through his eyes like spears of fire, and he screamed.

 

Away!

 

And Rand was no longer on the hilltop.

 

Later:

 

With aching muscles, he heaved himself over, pushed up to hands and knees. Uncomprehending, he stared at the oily ashes in which he had been lying, ashes scattered and smeared over the stone of the hilltop. Bits of dark green cloth lay mixed in the char, edge-blackened scraps that had escaped the flames.

 

Aginor.

 

As for Moiraine bringing them to the Eye of the World to discover who could channel? I'm not sure. Her stated intent is to protect the Eye from the Shadow. But she must know what the Eye of the World is, so it could very well be that she was hoping she could use the untainted pool of saidin to figure which of the three could channel.

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Moiraine brings the party here to help discover which one of the three ta'veren can channel (thus discovering which one of them is the Dragon Reborn).

 

This is very interesting, really. But I think it is false, because Moiraine's initial attempt was to bring them to Tar Valon and she changed her mind mid way due to the various sources that seemed to inform her that the Eye was in peril. She altered her route and went to the Eye,so that idea seems to be false. Perhaps the thought occurred to Moiraine but it was not the primary reason for going to the Eye.

 

And Aginor died by drawing too much saidin (Which IMO is ridiculous considering that an AoL Forsaken should know better than to draw too much.)

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And Aginor died by drawing too much saidin (Which IMO is ridiculous considering that an AoL Forsaken should know better than to draw too much.)

 

Perhaps it would be if it were any other Chosen. Aginor and Balthalmel, however, were near the edge of the seal. They were the only ones outside of Ishamael who could see the world as it was passing by for 3000 years. That may have just driven them to a bit of insanity. The Eye was pure saidin. We don't necessarily know that what people channel, even after the Cleansing, is equivalent to the saidin that was in the Eye. Beyond that, to be confronted with Rand who very easily begins to siphon the Power away from Aginor, you can't blame him for drawing more. Perhaps it was in a vague attempt to get Rand to draw more and burn Rand out.

 

What you can see, from the quotes I provided above, is that Aginor was not really in the right state of mind when he encountered Rand while channeling the Eye. He was single-minded in his attempts to make the Eye his own. He was fixated on channeling it and having it all.

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And Aginor died by drawing too much saidin (Which IMO is ridiculous considering that an AoL Forsaken should know better than to draw too much.)

 

Perhaps it would be if it were any other Chosen. Aginor and Balthalmel, however, were near the edge of the seal. They were the only ones outside of Ishamael who could see the world as it was passing by for 3000 years. That may have just driven them to a bit of insanity. The Eye was pure saidin. We don't necessarily know that what people channel, even after the Cleansing, is equivalent to the saidin that was in the Eye. Beyond that, to be confronted with Rand who very easily begins to siphon the Power away from Aginor, you can't blame him for drawing more. Perhaps it was in a vague attempt to get Rand to draw more and burn Rand out.

 

What you can see, from the quotes I provided above, is that Aginor was not really in the right state of mind when he encountered Rand while channeling the Eye. He was single-minded in his attempts to make the Eye his own. He was fixated on channeling it and having it all.

 

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately we don't see all that much of Aginor to judge his exact frame of mind. He does seem somewhat mad, and exceptionally jealous of Rand too. I was surprised that Rand didn;t overdraw, considering how easily an experienced Forsaken did it.

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As you could see, Rand was trying to run away. He wasn't focusing on the Power. He was trying to avoid the Power. He was trying to ignore the feeling which was filling him. He surrounded himself in the Void to try to separate the feeling the Power was giving him from himself.

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Aginor definitely gives off a vibe of being a monumental prat throughout the series, and suffers the ignomy of being killed through his own stupidity twice. For all of his boasting about his actions in the War of the Shadow, I get the distinct idea he spent most of the war immersed in his vats breeding Shadowspawn rather than serving on the battle fronts. Hopefully he won't be back again.

 

Sorry to anyone here who edited the Wiki site about WoT, I doubt you guys messed up. But you aren't the only ones who edit it. When I made this thread I had just read the Wiki page on tEotW

 

Oh right, I've only edited the main WoT article, not the individual book ones.

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Aginor suffers the ignomy of being killed through his own stupidity twice.
Once, yes. The second time? I'm not sure how much that counts as stupidity. Inexperience, perhaps. He wasn't exactly standing in the open when the hill he was on was destroyed.
For all of his boasting about his actions in the War of the Shadow, I get the distinct idea he spent most of the war immersed in his vats breeding Shadowspawn rather than serving on the battle fronts.
About what you'd expect from a scientist, really. And probably the biggest reason you get that impression is that it's the truth. His boasts mostly relate to successes off the battlefield.
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People think he killed himself by drawing too much because I guess we are all still thinking of LTT fromn the prologue, but what proof is there that thats how he died?

 

I'm willing to bet that when channeling out of tangible liquid Saidin, you are buffered just like with an Angreal or a link.

 

Rand channels huge quantities of the Power but doesn't burn himself out.

 

Rand, though unwittingly, is directing the energy of the Eye against all his opponents. He kills most of the trollocs at Tarwin's Gap and attacks Ishy himself. He did well in those situations, so why can't he have killed Aginor too? Give the guy credit ;)

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Guest Dreadlord

Exactly. Rand didnt even try to strike at Agnior, he simply wrestled control of the Eye off him, but not before Aginor was burnt to a crisp from drawing too much.

 

If I said Aginor seemed to grow younger while drawing from the Eye, am I getting mixed up with something else?

 

Im guna reread the series yet again

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If I said Aginor seemed to grow younger while drawing from the Eye, am I getting mixed up with something else?

No, you're not getting mixed up.  Aginor did appear younger.  I have always wondered at that myself... perhaps he was using the saidin for some anti-aging process.  He is ancient at first, but later is described as man in his prime.

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Rand does not attack Aginor in any way. Aginor draws on saidin so much that his eye sockets become firepits. I'd say that was a sure symbol of overdrawing.

Odd, since RJ later claimed that fireeyes was the next evolution of the saa. Maybe Aginor started trying to draw on the True Power as well, once he realized he wasn't strong enough to stop Rand from drawing on the Eye? Or RJ messed up. ;)

 

Also, Wikipedia has serious problems with stability. When anybody can render a viable article into 3rd-grade (no offense Kath) pablum with the click of a button, it becomes very difficult to maintain all watched articles at a high level of quality. I eventually gave up, but that's part of why I work on the Wheel of Time wiki on Wikia now.

 

...Wanna help? :D [/shamelessplug]

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Odd, since RJ later claimed that fireeyes was the next evolution of the saa. Maybe Aginor started trying to draw on the True Power as well, once he realized he wasn't strong enough to stop Rand from drawing on the Eye? Or RJ messed up

 

Had Aginor used the True Power enough for him to have gotten fireeyes from trying to use it then he would have had permenant saa to begin with, which he doesn't.

 

So they're two different effects--Aginor's eyes were on fire, but were not fireeyes. Remember that he deep fried himself when he overdrew.

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You know I had always assumed Rand burned Aginor. If you remember RJ did a lot of the dreamlike fight sequences in the early books and Rand would always come slowly out of the fight like waking from a dream. I thought it was kind of vauge like on purpose to match that feeling. Sometime in the last couple of books Rand and LTT are having one of their conversations in Rand's skull when LTT says he finally remembers killing Ishy and of course Rand thinks instead that he himself did it but it was like a light going off in my skull. Rand didn't kill Ishy, LTT was directing the flows like in the Stone when he made the thundercloud construct and that was why Rand was so vauge as to what was going on in the actual scenes. He didn't know. It made the next reread so much more logical as some untrained farmboy wasn't beating the most powerful AS from the Age of Legends, it was LTT doing it and the reason was they saw a jumped up farmboy and treated him as such.

 

I thought it strange that LTT started with Ishy and not Aginor. So I paid closer attention on the reread and realized he probably drew too much saidin.

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