Flying

[weeping anchor]

I have a vague recollection of a description somewhere about the strike on Shayul Ghul where the 100 companions flew to the site. Shoot me if I'm wrong.

 

They had 20,000 soldiers with them, so we're talking about the mother of all airlifts or some of the poor buggers were left to walk...

 

Anyway, my question. Is it possible to fly using the power? We know about Sho'Wings, and the "maximum length of a bridge" theory indicates major restrictions on lifting yourself with the power, but I think it would be cool if Rand discovers/rediscovers a flying weave. 'Travelling' is cool for logistics and getting around in a World War which is coming up, but imagine what a channeller could do flying over a battlefield, stealthed by a mask of mirrors, their weaves and ability to channel masked by those protections the ladies are using already. A full view of the battle, flame the major groupings, report on troop movements etc...you could basically replicate the USAs reconnaisance technology and stealth air warfare advantage from modern day combat. Matt could make a lot of advantage from that...

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest Majsju]

Not possible, since you can't touch yourself with a weave.

 

And where did you get the impression that the (+)100 comanions and the 10ooo soldiers flew to SG? The only written thing we have about that is The Strike At Shayol Ghul, and there's not a word about them flying there.

[weeping anchor]

The only dissenting example I can think of is the mask of mirrors disguise that Elayne/Nynaeve/ Avienda/Birgitte use in Ebou Dar, which has Elayne placing it around herself when drunk.

 

Looking back, you are probably right from all the problems with not being able to heal yourself, and Elayne having to pass control of the weave to Avienda during the Rand bonding (sp?) session as she couldn't 'include' herself.

 

I think the flying reference was in the little white book, but as I said, I'm not confident of this one, so its phrased as a "can someone check me on this". If memory serves, it was part of the fragment of parchment that told of the silly ***** who moved the female channelers away from LTT, his attempt to go ahead with just the blokes (foolish arrogant move), and the "strike".

 

Its possible that they all Travelled to the site, and I'm just having a Neo/Clark Kent throwback moment, I just think flying would be cool.

[Guest Majsju]

Mask of Mirrors doesn't seem to actually touch yourself, as we have seen it "ripple" and expose the looks underneath, for example when Alviarin gets a glimpse of Mesaanas dress underneath the disguise.

 

And neither the BWB or The Strike At SG mentions anything about flying to SG.

 

As for "the silly ***** who moved the female channelers away from LTT", if she hadn't done that, so female channelers had been involved with the sealing, both saidar and saidin would have been tainted, and I think that the world might not have survived that.

[ono-neko]

As for "the silly ***** who moved the female channelers away from LTT"' date=' if she hadn't done that, so female channelers had been involved with the sealing, both saidar and saidin would have been tainted, and I think that the world might not have survived that.[/quote']

 

Or, had both female and male worked together to seal the bore, it might have been perfect and the DO had not a chance to taint either saidin or saidar, or change to be free from the seal...

[Guest Majsju]

As for "the silly ***** who moved the female channelers away from LTT"' date=' if she hadn't done that, so female channelers had been involved with the sealing, both saidar and saidin would have been tainted, and I think that the world might not have survived that.[/quote']

 

Or, had both female and male worked together to seal the bore, it might have been perfect and the DO had not a chance to taint either saidin or saidar, or change to be free from the seal...

 

Nope. Given the rules of this universe, it was not possible top seal the DO perfectly at that point, because that battle is supposed to happen with Rand and the DO. Now, the same rules more or less means that the world would not have been completely destroyed if both saidin and saidar had been tainted, but it sure would have made the last battle quite a big deal harder for Rand to win.

 

Keep in mind that things happen for a reason, and the Wheel has a tendency of interfering to make sure things happen the way they are supposed to.

[schneb]

In KoD when we are seeing things from PoV of the gray sister who was returning to Elaida (I think her name was Beonin or somthing close to that), she also wonders how the disguise weave and the hide your ability to channel weave were able to work on one channeling. So we can assume that yes those weaves are working on the the one who wove it. Unless she is just wrong.

[dalic]

I think it would be possible to fly but not by yourself. For instance, Elayne and Avienda might fly somewhere together by helping each other. Elayne lifts Avienda who lifts Elayne. I think maybe the Power is limited to what you believe you can do with it. Often in the books someone has an extreme need for something and it happens. For example, Nynaeve healing before Moiraine ever showed up, Rand doing numerous things after Moiraine showed up, Avienda created a gateway and travelled to Seandar! with no knowledge of Travelling, etc.

[Linither]

I could be wrong, but doesen't it say somewhere in the book that during the Age of Legends they could fly? I think it was something about a novice claiming to have rediscovered the Talent and jumping off the White Tower?

[Asajin]

i recall in one of the boooks it was mentioned that a novice had been so convinced she had rediscovered flying that she jumped off the White Tower. And with Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve rediscovering so many weaves(though many were due 2 info from Moghdien) i think it is entirely possible to have a flying weave

[SinisterDeath]

No, the only "flying" was the aol's equivolent of airplanes.

Weaves can not touch your self, Hence why you can't heal your self, given those rules, you would be unable to "fly".

You can make "Bridges" out of the power, but moving them as far as we have seen is impossible... You could theoretically extend the top end, and decrease the bottom end and "walk up it, however that isn't really "flying".

[Fel]

There *was* some mention in the early books about a novice killing herself by jumping off the tower because she thought she had re-discovered flying. I could be wrong, but I think it was when one of their teachers was trying to get the new girls to go slowly.

 

As to being able to fly using the power, I don't see why not. Make a strong wind appear (which we have seen done) and a small parachute-like device and voila, you are airborne. Or, a balloon made of air with a fire underneath to lift it. Or, if you want to get fancy, an airfoil made of air and a little jet engine made of fire and you're really moving. Flying is not about lifting - it is generally about moving air around and channelers can easily do that.

 

Now, would anyone in the current age know the proper shape for an airfoil? No. But, if the AOL had sho-wings (which are basically airplanes), they must have known that and I can't see why a channeler could not have made a mini-hangglider for themselves to sit on and zoom off.

[mightisright]

Rand flew at Flame. Now maybe that was just 'as the pattern wills it' but I think it is a lost ability. I know you can't touch yourself with your own weaves but there are a million ways RJ could impliment flying if he wanted too. I mean after all he makes the rules. I swear I read some remark about it in KOD too but i may just be imagining things. Maj would undoubtedly know if it had been, so prolly not.

[SinisterDeath]

Rand didn't fly, he was well..

That scene can be taken several ways.

Either he was actually in the clouds fighting ishmale.

Or

It was actually an elaborate Illusion.

If not, then what happened is Ishy brought rand up there to him, and not rand "flying there".

But the earlier books were less elaborate on how the onepower worked, then the later books. At that time, RJ though book 3 would be the final book, so the op didnt need to be fully fleshed out.

[Guest Majsju]

 

The knowledge they have about the AOL is based on fragments of documents. Now, if someone in the AOL wrote about someone flying to a place in a sho-wing, they wouldn't take time describing what a sho-wing was, since everyone would know that. Kinda like if someone writes today that they're flying from London to Paris, they wouldn't feel it necessary to include that they're flying in an airplane, people will understand that.

 

But the Aes Sedai who reads those fragments after wards don't know what a sho-wing is. Their first impulse would not be to think "Aha, they must use machines!", living in a world where machines hardly exists. They would interpret it through their frame of reference. Which means they think flying must be done using the One Power.

 

 

Pretty sure you're imagining things.

[Smoosh]

I understand the whole "Thou shalt not fly" stuff, but one thing that always struck me was......can't Aes Sedai make other people fly? Wrap them up in air or something and send them on their merry way? What was stopping the people in AOL from setting one or two AS up in each major city for flights? Granted, they had gateways, but what if people wanted a more senic route? There is the whole "No lifting yourself" and no bridge-making beyond a certian point, but it never said anything about lifting other people...(I think)

[mightisright]

Well I hadn't seen that quote from RJ before or I would have leaned towards nobody ever flew with the power. That said, there is nowhere in the books that i've remember that directly discounts it. So HA, i'm just gonna go ahead and imagine them flying around!

[SinisterDeath]

I believe RJ stated once that you can not fly via the power.

[mightisright]

Darn you sinister! Darn you! :)

[SinisterDeath]

If I'm not mistaken the only "flying" via the power was through the sho-wings, which could basically be machines that run on the op batteries?

As for the novice/accepted who thought she found out she could fly.. Well, she went splat, so obvioulsy she didn't rediscover anything. She was probably compulsed by the black ajah for finding something she shouldnt have found.

[AtheistPeace]

Yea I believe in TGH moraine and siuane talk about aes sedia in the AOL knowing how to fly but they also state they how they did it was not known. They were probably just refering to sho'wings.

[Kaznen]

If I'm not mistaken the only "flying" via the power was through the sho-wings' date=' which could basically be machines that run on the op batteries?

As for the novice/accepted who thought she found out she could fly.. Well, she went splat, so obvioulsy she didn't rediscover anything. She was probably compulsed by the black ajah for finding something she shouldnt have found.[/quote']

 

I don't think it was such a "sinister death"(pun intended). When I read that part when Sheriam was telling Nyneave about the girl who jumped off the tower I took to mean she burned out(not the OP way) and cracked and went crazy. Kinda like the stories I've heard about boys in prep school who hang themselves because they didn't get excepted into Harvard.

[algspkr]

Think about it from our point of refrence. For the most part the little that has survived the AOL are artifacts (angreal etc.) and fragmenty writings, no pictures.

 

So we go three thousand years into our future when a new darkage has set in and people are almost living in caves once more. They read a translation of a newspaper article about an airplane. The part about flying is easy for them to make out as the word will survive to describe the behaviors of birds, but when they get to the word airplane they will be unable to translate it due to the lack of a compatable word and no useful description.

[Luckers]

No, you can't fly. This has been stated several times by several different Forsaken including Asmodean and Moghedian... and i think RJ said it at one stage too. A channeler can create a platform to lift themselves a certain height, and they can lift others to a certain height using flows of air, but both a restricted--consult Egwenes attempts to lift the Sea Folk higher in, i believe, Lord of Chaos.

 

Suine's comments on flying in the Age of Legends should be taken pretty much exactly as Maj suggests... The misinterpretation of remenant information.

 

When I read that part when Sheriam was telling Nyneave about the girl who jumped off the tower I took to mean she burned out(not the OP way) and cracked and went crazy.

 

No, it was offered as an example of foolish girls thinking they'd rediscovered something when in fact they were simply idiots... the direct intent of it being said was to make Nynaeve feel she was being doubted as a foolish girl so that she would be angry enough to channel and repeat her healing weave.

[Word]

In Chapter 6 of The Dragon Reborn, when told that Rand left the camp through a clearing made by his earthquake the day before, Moraine says “Good, At least he has not rediscovered how to fly, or make himself invisible, or something else out of legend."

 

So with you all saying that it is impossible to fly, does this just show the ignorance of the current Aes Sedai about the AOL, or does this mean that RJ originally thought about throwing in flying but then changed his mind?