Ok the good ones win ....Then what?

[Brigadier]

Ghealdan wouldn't be a part of Andor, but it would be a subject state if Perrin agreed to keep TR as a part of Andor.  Actually, I'm starting to rethink this idea, as I have a feeling that I'm missing something.

[Mr Ares]

Ghealdan wouldn't be a part of Andor, but it would be a subject state if Perrin agreed to keep TR as a part of Andor. Actually, I'm starting to rethink this idea, as I have a feeling that I'm missing something.

It would be Perrin's subject state, not Andor's. And only so long as he kept it. Why should he? Why not just give it back to Alliandre?

[Cockta]

But you just don't give away a country, when the leader has sworn fealty to you. It would assure you that that country wouldn't send an army against the TR. Also, I believe that Ghealdan was a part of Manheteren, so it would only justify it even more, that Perrin has control over Ghealdan.

 

As for Saldaea, it would still be a Borderland, so it would still have the blight to deal with. Even after the DO defeat, I don't think the blight will dissapear completely, only become in a state of recession, where it doesn't spread, but rather fall bakc to the mountaisn of Dhoom.

[Sabio]

Who knows how much of this will come to pass after the last battle, quite possible after the battle many new nations will form and some will vanish.  Min also saw Logain with a crown I believe.

[Darth_Andrea]

After TG what I see happening is this.

 

Several years of something like terrorists attacks by dark friends trying to seek revenge for their master.

 

Tuon and Mat leading the Sean Chan forces back across the ocean in order to retake her empire (If Brandon dose that out rigger *prays hard* we will see a resolution to the damane issue)

 

Egwene building the White tower into a central hub for learnings of the Power, for men as well as women. Allowing all to come to learn and only those who choose to take the tests to be Aes Sedai and the rest allowed to return to their own people.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]   

[Mr Ares]

But you just don't give away a country, when the leader has sworn fealty to you.

You might. Depending on who you are, for example.

It would assure you that that country wouldn't send an army against the TR.

Why would they bother? Getting to the TR would not be easy, and what's there when they do? They have had hundreds of years to go there but haven't bothered.

Also, I believe that Ghealdan was a part of Manheteren, so it would only justify it even more, that Perrin has control over Ghealdan.

So Perrin give up all claim to Manetheren, promises not to raise a nation 2,000 years dead, and then goes back on his word at the earliest opportunity because he has Ghealdan and Ghealdan used to be part of Manetheren? Perrin is not an empire builder. He didn't much want to be Lord of the TR, so why, when he has no further use for Ghealdan, would he keep the country in his pocket, rather than giving it back to Alliandre? I just don't see keeping the country and trying to bring back Manetheren as the sort of things that Perrin would do. Seems a bit out of character to me.

As for Saldaea, it would still be a Borderland, so it would still have the blight to deal with. Even after the DO defeat, I don't think the blight will dissapear completely, only become in a state of recession, where it doesn't spread, but rather fall bakc to the mountaisn of Dhoom.

I disagree. I think the only thing keeping the Blight around is Shai'tan. With Him gone, I think it will fade away. Completely.

 

Min also saw Logain with a crown I believe.

I remember her seeing glory around him, but not a crown.

[Hybrid]

Ghealdan wouldn't be a part of Andor, but it would be a subject state if Perrin agreed to keep TR as a part of Andor.  Actually, I'm starting to rethink this idea, as I have a feeling that I'm missing something.

 

There is no way Perrin will keep Ghealdan.

1) Perrin doesn't want to be a lord.  None of the Two Rivers people did, not even Rand at first.  Perrin doesn't even want to be Lord of the Two Rivers.

2) Alliandre's oath of fealty was more of a case of ta'veren and her need for some sort of protector.  Her country had just been torn apart first by Logain and then Masema.  She needed someone strong as her ally, and she swore fealty to Perrin, who is Rand's (the Dragon Reborn's) friend.  When the troubles are all over and her country's need for aid is gone, I don't see it hard for Perrin to give Ghealdan back to her and for her to accept.

[Sabio]

Doubt Perrin would intentionally attempt to rule Ghealdan or make a new  Manetheren.  He never expressed any interest in being a ruler and only became Lord of the Two Rivers becuase of Faile.  I always took Alliandre's oath of faelty to actually of been to Rand because Perrin was there as his representive.  Can't see Perrin forcing anyon eto accept him as their ruler, besides looks like he is destined to be King of Saldaea.

 

After the last battle who can say what will happen to the nations.  Maybe Alliandre won't live so Ghealdan may willing join the Two Rivers.  Maybe Elayne will allow Manetheren to come back in the Two Rivers as thanks for what they do in the Last Battle.  Maybe Andor after the fight will be to weak to stop people from claiming a new Manetheren in the TR.

[Hybrid]

After the last battle who can say what will happen to the nations.  Maybe Alliandre won't live so Ghealdan may willing join the Two Rivers.  Maybe Elayne will allow Manetheren to come back in the Two Rivers as thanks for what they do in the Last Battle.  Maybe Andor after the fight will be to weak to stop people from claiming a new Manetheren in the TR.

 

Perhaps Alliandre will die.  In any case, I don't see Ghealdan joining the Two Rivers because, as Mr Ares pointed out earlier, there isn't a route between the two.  They are cut off from each other by the White River and the Forest of Shadows.

Also, I don't see Elayne allowing any region of Andor to become autonomous.  Look at how indignant she was that Nynaeve and Mat don't consider themselves to be her subjects and how she was thinking about the "rebellion" in the Two Rivers.

[Cockta]

I really wonder what will happen to Perrin.

[Alderthal]

Hmmm... Well, Perrin is the charismatic ruler after all, the one everyone seems to want to follow...

 

He currently has Ghealdean, Mayene (hawk and falcon on Perrin's shoulders, hawk possibly might signify Mayene's fealty to him), Two Rivers, and is somewhere between 3rd-5th claimant to the throne of Saldea. Also, depending on what happens with the Whitecloaks, and whether or not Galad (It's Galad Damodred, and he has an equal claim to the throne of Cairhein, possibly even more, since Tigraine married into Damodred.) will swear fealty to him.

 

So if Galad does swear fealty to him, and acknowledges his claim to Cairhein, then he'd have Cairhein too (and maybe even claims on Amadicia). Can Elayne really start clamoring that he's a rebel then? He'd end up with a lot more land than she has.

[Cockta]

If that would happen, Perrin would almost completely surround the remainder of Andor, and Andor would be reduced to almost only a city-state again.

[Sabio]

Can't see Mayene going to Perrin seeing how hard she has fought to keep Mayene independent, and can't see Faile allowing that.  As for the throne of Cairhein Elayne will probably take that like Rand wants.

 

I think Hawk on his shoulder was Berelain and falcon Faile. Probably meaning about them fightng over Perrin.  The rest the most beautiful woman he ever sees run part was most likely about Lanfear.  Least thats how I took it.

[Cockta]

Is there actually a more concrete description of Lanfear, other than that she is beatiful.

[Sabio]

Big White Book probably has best description of her.  Just says really one of the most beautiful women of her age or any other.  Black hair, pale skin, always in white, etc etc etc.....

[Alderthal]

Well, Berelain has already allowed her Mayener's to be lead by Perrin, and seems to accept his leadership. We also know that at the very least, Haviar Nurelle (second in command of the Lances), worships Perrin. So whether she wants to or not.

 

Still, even without Mayene... I'd be interested in seeing Perrin meeting Elayne with half the world at his beck and call if that is what's going to happen, that's definitely bound to be a hilarious scene. :D

[Sabio]

Rulers follow Perrin becuase he follows the Dragon reborn, who can say after the last battle when the Dragon Reborn is dead or no longer needed if they will still follow him.  Berelain is a smart ruler and maybe great in politics but I am sure she knows she isn't an army commander. 

 

Remember Perrin doesn't want to rule anything and can't see him demanding Manetheren remformed or forcing Elyane to give up land.  Sadly I don't think the last book will really even discuss much about the aftermath and how the world is reshapped.

[Cockta]

Yeah, it is sad, because AMOL will probably span from the end of book 11, and well into TG, most probably to the end, but no one knows how long TG will last, except RJ, Brandon Sanderson and RJ's wife Harriet, and possibly some other people.

[Sabio]

My guess is all this hype and the whole battle will last 10 seconds.  Rand will run up there slip, break open the wound in his side, bleed on a rock and POOOF DO resealed.  ;D

[Mr Ares]

He currently has Ghealdean, Mayene (hawk and falcon on Perrin's shoulders, hawk possibly might signify Mayene's fealty to him), Two Rivers, and is somewhere between 3rd-5th claimant to the throne of Saldea. Also, depending on what happens with the Whitecloaks, and whether or not Galad (It's Galad Damodred, and he has an equal claim to the throne of Cairhein, possibly even more, since Tigraine married into Damodred.) will swear fealty to him.

The hawk and falcon are Berelain and Faile. Remember the hawk was trying to fasten a leash round his neck? Doesn't seem much like fealty. He is not a claimant to the throne of Saldaea. His wife is. She is second. When she is ruler, he may be co-ruler.

 

So if Galad does swear fealty to him, and acknowledges his claim to Cairhein, then he'd have Cairhein too (and maybe even claims on Amadicia). Can Elayne really start clamoring that he's a rebel then? He'd end up with a lot more land than she has.

Cairhien belongs to whoever Rand gives it to, so long as Rand is the power in the land. After that, it belongs to whoever can take it. And Even if Galad did submit to Perrin (no reason why he should, is there?) he wouldn't have Amadicia. That belongs to the Seanchan. And Amadicia has a king. That king would likely have a superior claim to Perrin. If the Whitecloaks wished to become a power in Amadicia again, they'd have to start from the beginning. They were in charge because Niall was an excellent politician, not because he was a lawful ruler. Galad isn't even an excellent politician.

 

I don't think the last book will really even discuss much about the aftermath and how the world is reshapped.

I think that is likely to be an important part of the book.

 

Maybe Alliandre won't live so Ghealdan may willing join the Two Rivers. Maybe Elayne will allow Manetheren to come back in the Two Rivers as thanks for what they do in the Last Battle. Maybe Andor after the fight will be to weak to stop people from claiming a new Manetheren in the TR.

If Alliandre should die, will Ghealdan's next ruler owe any fealty to Perrin? Why would Elayne allow the TR to call itself Manetheren? Why not just stop the rebellion in its tracks? Why can't she just make Perrin a Lord, with all the responsibilites and duties that would entail, and task him with bringing the TR into line with the rest of Andor? And make him responsible for making sure taxes are collected from Andoran citizens in the region. And so on.

[Cockta]

Perrin, and almost, if not everyone in TR don't feel like they are a part of Andor. Morgase said it herself, TR is just a part of Andor on the map. We have yet to see how Elayne will react when she hears everything.

[Fryn]

Why would Elayne allow the TR to call itself Manetheren? Why not just stop the rebellion in its tracks? Why can't she just make Perrin a Lord, with all the responsibilites and duties that would entail, and task him with bringing the TR into line with the rest of Andor? And make him responsible for making sure taxes are collected from Andoran citizens in the region. And so on.

 

I believe the TR army could hold off the Andor army. Especially when you remember the trove of channelers coming out of there. Both the Aes Sedai and Taim found more channelers in the TR than anywhere else, and I doubt if they want to be part of Andor. Some might not care, but I bet the majority wouldn't like seeing Andor causing their home town problems. Perrin is one of the few Randland generals who has experience leading channelers in battle as well (others being Rand, Seanchan).

 

With the issues Elayne will have to deal with (if she is even alive, remember all Min said is she would have the babies... its pretty ominous that Min can't see anything further for such a powerful channeler) I just don't see her being able to claim TR unless the TR actually want to be part of Andor.

[CUBAREY]

I believe the TR army could hold off the Andor army.

 

Well TR population is about 100oth that of Andor. Moreover except, for Eqwene and Nyneave (whose ability to survive TG is about the same as Elayne's) there are no trained A.S. from TR. We know that there are many A.S. that come from Andor. Now all of them woukld be limited by the three oaths (except the thjree wonder girls) sothey all should prove as useless. Moroever the numbers for Asha'manis probably the same (alot of male channelers from the TR considering the total population) but the total size of the pool in Andor would mean that the TR wouild not havea superiority in male channelers (outside of Rand). Thus, the shear numerical superiority of Andor would nmean it could not fight a succesful war against Andor.

[Cockta]

/agree

[Hybrid]

On the other hand, the TR people are good woodsmen and excellent with the longbow.  They could successfully fight a guerilla campaign, but they could not actually stop the Andoran army unless the Andoran general was a fool.  Otherwise, they have no training in any other real type of fighting.  They did get bloodied in the Trolloc attack, but it would be different fighting the Andorans.  For one thing, there would be more archers and likely less suicidal charges into a heavily fortified position.