Where will everyone meet up before Tarmon Gaidon?

[Mr Ares]

If it were very impressive then I would probably experience awe and wonder too.

Many people do around me. I'm fairly certain I'm not a ter'angreal. But I think the BWB specifically says it's a ter'angreal, and that causing awe and wonder is what it does.

[Luckers]

That doesn't prove it is a ter'angreal though. If it were very impressive then I would probably experience awe and wonder too.

 

I believe RJ also commented on it at one stage when asked if the Crystal Throne was the High Seat upon which the First Amongst Servants sat... it wasn't the High Seat, but he did cite it as ter'angreal.

 

Many people do around me. I'm fairly certain I'm not a ter'angreal. But I think the BWB specifically says it's a ter'angreal, and that causing awe and wonder is what it does.

 

The implications of you being a ter'angreal scare me, but explain so much.

[Majsju]

I think when Tuon does meet with Rand, that Rand, if he's smart, will have Perrin and Mat with him.  (All Rand has to do is think about his friend and open a getway off to the left.

 

She'll get caught up in a massive ta'veren swirl, poor girl won't even have a chance.  And she doesn't believe in ta'verenness.

 

Except that

1. Just because Rand can see the others, he would need to see something in the landscape to locate them. Just seeing Mat riding through a forest will not do him an good.

 

2. There is no on/off switch for ta'veren-ness. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not, and Rand just has to hope it works in his favour when he needs it.

 

3. At least Mat has more important things to do.

 

I believe RJ also commented on it at one stage when asked if the Crystal Throne was the High Seat upon which the First Amongst Servants sat... it wasn't the High Seat, but he did cite it as ter'angreal.

 

Indeed.

[42Bonzo88]

    "Many people do around me. I'm fairly certain, I'm not a Ter'angreal."

 

    So it happens to you to, I believe it's a curse. All these women want me and I hate breaking their hearts, it's sad really, I can't change the way I am. :( :(

[Asmo]

3. At least Mat has more important things to do.

 

You'd think Mat would cherish the opportunity to see his wife one more time before going off to the Finnland.

 

As for being ta'veren... let's say that with Rand being there, something that would happen once in a million happens once in ten thousand (a 100x chance multiplier), and with Mat and Perrin once in a hundred thousand (a 10x chance multiplier). So with all three being there what would have a 1/1,000,000 chance of happening has a 1/100 chance of happening (100x10x10=10,000 chance multiplier). So it gets pretty probable, given the odds. Now if there was a one-in-ten thousand chance of Tuon simply agreeing with Rand's terms and bringing the Seanchan to ally with the Dragon Reborn and surrender their claims on the Westlands, with all three ta'veren there, it becomes almost a certainty.

 

Now that's most obviously not a very accurate example, nor do I think things will happen that way, but if ta'veren chance twisting "stacks", you can see the implications.

 

And about the Crystal Throne, one'd wonder how Semirhage managed to kill the Empress on her throne if the thing causes anyone to be overawed, unless there's some sort of ON/OFF button, or the effects are resistable if you know what you're up against, or holding the Source protects you against the thing. Now that I think about it, it's not really that strange at all =/.

[Kaznen]

Maybe Semi closed her eyes. :P

[Majsju]

You'd think Mat would cherish the opportunity to see his wife one more time before going off to the Finnland.

 

Just as Rand would cherish the opportunity to take his harem and settle down in the middle of nowhere. Sucks to have duties...

 

As for being ta'veren... let's say that with Rand being there, something that would happen once in a million happens once in ten thousand (a 100x chance multiplier), and with Mat and Perrin once in a hundred thousand (a 10x chance multiplier). So with all three being there what would have a 1/1,000,000 chance of happening has a 1/100 chance of happening (100x10x10=10,000 chance multiplier). So it gets pretty probable, given the odds. Now if there was a one-in-ten thousand chance of Tuon simply agreeing with Rand's terms and bringing the Seanchan to ally with the Dragon Reborn and surrender their claims on the Westlands, with all three ta'veren there, it becomes almost a certainty.

 

Well sure, if there had been an on/off switch for the ta'veren-ness to kick in. Heck, if it had been that easy, all it would take to win TG would be for Rand, Mat and Perrin to go to Shayol Ghul, and let their ta'veren-ness take care of everything the shadow throws at them...

[42Bonzo88]

  We have many instances showing how Mat's "Luck" (I think it's his tav'eren) can change from one minute to the next. I've been reading The Dragon Reborn most recently, and I'm basing my arguments from that book.

 

    Also, lets say Rand, Mat, and Perrin did make a gateway to the Pit of Doom. Remember that Rand going through a city (again using The Dragon Reborn as reference) almost as many bad miraculous things happened as good. If they were not supposed to be there then or something else wasn't fitting the prophecies, the three could be wiped out in a heartbeat, as easily as defeating the Dark One.

[DemandredFO]

No the Luck comes from the Shadar Logoth dagger.  His Ta'veren is i.e. when he was attacked in an inn(forget which one) and the guy stepped on the one board that creaked.

[Snowy Dawn]

``No, the Luck comes from the Shadar Logoth dagger.'' 

 

Do you mean from carrying the dagger or being cured of the evil of carrying the dagger? And a cite might be nice about why either should cause him to be lucky.

 

Maybe his luck comes from, or was enhanced by, the attachment to the horn? The effort required by the Amyrlin and the others to cure him of the evil of the dagger did seem to bring out more of the Manetheren memories and old-tongue speaking, tho' not as much as that which resulted from his visit to Rhuidean. See <i>The Dragon Reborn</i>, Ch. 18 and Ch. 19, pp.  211--214, and pp. 215--217, the former for the things he says in his delirium as he is healed of his connection to the dagger--all in the old tongue, and the second, the vision of being in a battle in the Trolloc Wars, commanding troops of Manetheren.

 

 

``His Ta'veren is i.e. when he was attacked in an inn(forget which one) and the guy stepped on the one board that creaked.''

 

But that could just as much be an example of his luck, yes?

[Mr Ares]

No, the Luck comes from the Shadar Logoth dagger.

Do you mean from carrying the dagger or being cured of the evil of carrying the dagger? And a cite might be nice about why either should cause him to be lucky.

 

Maybe his luck comes from, or was enhanced by, the attachment to the horn?

His luck manifests before either the Healing, or the blowing of the Horn. Early in TGH (Chapter 3) is when we first see it. Later, (TDR 30) he himself notes that his luck improved after Shadar Logoth, and became phenomenal after the Healing. There's really nothing to tie it to anything other than the dagger, and evidence enough to say it was.

[schizm]

I had a thought. Everyone - by whom I mean all the main characters: Rand, Mat and Perrin especially but perhaps the Ewgenes, Elaynes, Nynaeves etc - will presumably have to meet up just before or during Tarmon Gaidon (sp?) and I was thinking about where. How, it's been a while since I've read through the series so I will need reminding/correcting on a number of things, but this is my theory:

 

Mat has to find and rescue Moiraine; Rand has to meet and deal with Tuon as well as the Borderland armies; Perrin has to deal with Morgase and Damodred (sp?) and the White Cloaks; Elayne seems to just have to deal with her pregnancy ::); Egwene has to deal with Elaida and the civil war between the Aes Sedai; Aviendha is somewhere with the Aiel who are preparing for battle, and I believe they were sent into the areas close to where the Seanchan are (the land where Italrude is leading the Seanchan into a trap... Tarabon is it?); Nynaeve is with Rand; and Lan is gathering an army in the Borderlands. These are the things that the last book built up towards, and told us/implied should happen.

 

Now my theory is that all of these dealings will lead everyone to Tar Valon just before Tarmon Gaidon, and I will go through them by character:

 

Mat - Has to rescue Moiraine. He will go into the land of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn (man I can't remember names tonight...) through the Tower of Ghenji, I believe the name was. But where will he come out? I had thought that it would be the door that was being sent by Moiraine to Tar Valon, but then I remembered thats the one that melted when she and Lanfear went through it ::) Then I remembered there was another door... the one from Tear. Wasn't it supposed to be sent to Tar Valon as well (again, can't remember so someone feel free to clear that up). If it was, I suspect he with Thom, Noal and Moiraine will come out of the door in the White Tower just as the Seanchan are attacking it or maybe after the battle is over, but an even more significant conflict/event is unfolding. If he it was not, I still suspect that something will lead him there, possibly to fight against the Seanchan as he said he would or possibly to save Egwene (as he always seems to...) and/or Tuon (I suspect she will be in danger during the book, and will be rescued which will in some way lead to her kneeling to Rand as someone, if I remember correctly, had a vision/dream of).

 

Rand - has to meet with Tuon, as well as the Borderland army. I suspect that the latter will happen first, and as others have predicted will have some trouble with those thirteen Sisters that are with the army and whom we have neither seen nor know nothing of other than that they are there. I suspect that this will lead him to Tar Valon, likely alone and likely in captivity (Did Perrin not have to save him a second time?). And since I also suspect that Tuon will at some point be in Tar Valon, I find it extremely likely that the meeting she will have with Rand will be there. This will also reunite him and his party (Nynaeve, Cadsuane, Min etc.) with Moiraine and Mat and co. when they get there. Perhaps Moiraine's vital role in the Last Battle will happen at the very beginning, perhaps it is her helping him 'heal' that is her importance. Either way, whatever her importance is I see it happening at Tar Valon.

 

Perrin - Has to deal with Morgase and Demodred (sp?) and his White Cloaks. I don't see this as having to take up very much of the book, and as many have said (and I have picked up on just above) Perrin still has to save Rand another time, and I pretty much explained why I see him ending up in Tar Valon in my explanations for Rand. Yet here's the twist: I see him bringing the White Cloaks along with him (and Demodred obviously) to help fight the Seanchan and save Tar Valon. That's right, I said I think the White Cloaks will help save Tar Valon, and I think that was foreshadowed in the last book with what Demodred and his White Cloak captains said about the Aes Sedai. Perhaps they will agree, Demodred at first who will convince the other White Cloaks, to follow him because he defeated the Aiel and saved Morgase. Either way, his conflict with the White Cloaks - or rather their conflict with him will have to be solved before the Last Battle if they are to fight on the same side. I also see him possibly getting that crown of Saldea sooner than expected. The Borderland armies have in their company the queen (whose name, like many tonight, are on the tip of my tongue but elude me none the less) of Saldea and whom is looking for Bashere her uncle, and Faile's father. The former army also just so happens to contain some possible Black Ajah, so perhaps the queen will be a casualty in their kidnapping attempt (whether it succeeds or not) of Rand, and if Bashere is not as well he will still likely end up following with or even leading (depending on the fate of the queen) that same army to Tar Valon after Rand. So if those two die, Perrin will end up king with Faile as queen (no matter which is the de facto ruler, he will likely end up commander of the army along with his 'Manethern' (sp?) army) and that means he has to end up with that army at some point.

 

Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne - Egwene's obvious, because she's already there. The other two are equally obvious, because Tar Valon will likely have to be healed of it's split and all the Aes Sedai will probably gather together as the Last Battle is about to begin at Tar Valon. Nynaeve especially, because she has to confront Moiraine again. Perhaps Lan will end up there also, but because of his situation and self-perceived duty in the Borderlands I have trouble seeing him coming all the way down to Tar Valon unless someone Travels to get him.

 

Now of course all of these characters will bring others with them: Cadsuane, Min (and I already mentioned Nynaeve) will follow Rand to Tar Valon. I see Min having some important visions on the eve of Tarmon Gaidon, and I see Cadsuane in a quick battle of wills/meeting with Moiraine over Rand's 'situation' that Cadsuane is trying to fix and that Moiraine probably will succeed in fixing. Others include Logain, who will probably have to deal with Taim and the Black Tower, and who I also see leading the Asha'man into battle to help save the White Tower from the Seanchan and possibly merge them into one entity - man and woman, as it was before the Breaking. Laoil I also see leading a contingent/army of Ogier to meet up with everyone else.

 

Basically, I see all those individual characters with their storylines merging into the one epic event that will be an immediate prelude to the Last Battle: the attack on Tar Valon. Thoughts?

[schizm]

I have a feeling things will go something along these lines. I'll start with Mat.

 

Mat- He'll get Moiraine, and in the process lose his eye. I don't know how he'll give up half the light of the world to save it though. Then he'll reunite with the Band once more, and he'll either go to Camelyn, or he'll go to Tar Valon. He has a promise to keep after all. But wherever he does go at first, I think he'll have to end up in Tar Valon, where everyone will meet up before going to Shayol Gul for the final battle. Mat will be the commaning general to all the forces of the light, leaving Rand to concentrate on his battle with the DO.

 

Rand- He has to have his meeting with Tuon, but that will come, I believe, in Tar Valon. Mat will be the one to bring it about. He will also shore up things in Arad Doman, and tie the borderlands to him. He'll have to deal with the Black Tower, yet I think it'll be done through Logain. One of the bigger things in store for him before TG is his reunion with Moiraine, to me in Tar Valon. Along with Tam being reunited with Rand, once Perrin brings him there as well.

 

Perrin- The guy refuses to believe in his destiny as a leader, yet that's what he's working toward. I think now that he's done for the Shaido, and forged an alliance of sorts with the Seanchan, he'll do his part in helping the mighty Seanchan and the rest of Rands forcing becoming one, along with Mat. I think that Perrin will also bring about the reunion of Morgase with Galad, which in turn will lead to Camelyn, with Elayne. Then onto Tar Valon.

 

Galad- he'll play a bigger role in this book than in others, IMO. I think not only will he bring the White cloaks to Rand, but Rand and him will have sometime to grow close as brothers. Galad and Elayne, along with Egwene will bring Gawyn to reconcile his feelings toward Rand. Seeing Morgase alive will have a huge part in it though. Galad will also have a big part in leading some of the forces loyal to the light.

 

Egwene, well she'll obviously be a big part in reuniting the Tower and bringing them behind Rand. Other than that, who knows.

 

Lan and Nynaeve will come together again at some point, likely once everyone is together again. Lan will have marshalled a large army under the Malkier banner. Before all is said and done, Malkier will be reborn again, saved from the blight. Nynaeve will continue to grow into her immense strength, and likely will do battle once again with Moghedien.

 

Tuon is a mystery to me, I know shes important, yet I can seem to decide how that will evolve completely in my mind. So I can't really guess at this point.

 

There are so many others, I could go on for days, but this is just a sample of what I think we can expect. I look forward to seeing what others think of my little contribution. I think without a doubt though, everyone will end up meeting again, completely in Tar Valon. Which will be interesting with Rand, Logain, Narishma, and other Ashaman in the Tower, with sisters, interesting indeed.

 

[DemandredFO]

I wish Gawyn could die because I have never forgiven him for Hammar and Coulin.