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Safia al-Maaz

George R. R. Martin (possible spoilers)

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Hah, thanks everybody for the help ^^

 

And RAND, yeah I was pretty hesitant over reading the book, only because I hate wasting my time with reading a book I won't end up liking, so I'm always picky what I read... silly, but I'm getting better at that ;) Now i generally try to read a little bit of everything.

 

Oh, btw, DOES anybody know what a dead mule is?

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A mule is kind of a donkey, and apparently literature from southern US is supposed to have a dead mule somewhere. RJ joked about this since he lived in the south, but so far had failed to include said mule.

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A mule is kind of a donkey, and apparently literature from southern US is supposed to have a dead mule somewhere. RJ joked about this since he lived in the south, but so far had failed to include said mule.
A mule is only half donkey. On its father's side (the mother is a horse). A dead one is one that has shuffled of its mortal coil, one that has ceased to be, an ex-mule, it's bereft of life, and it would be pushing up daisies of it wasn't nailed to its perch (mules do perch, honest). Or perhaps it's only stunned.

 

He isn't afraid to kill or maim anyone, unlike RJ, where most of the main characters are still going after 11 books.
RJ has hardly been afraid to maim his characters, has he? Indeed, when it serves the story he kills them off - the same as Martin. The difference is that GRRM has done it to major characters while RJ still has a use for his major characters, and so can only dispose of more minor ones. So I would say the principle difference is that Martin had some disposable major characters - characters important to the story, but who fulfill their roles and complete their own stories before the completion of the series. Perhaps RJ should have planned a couple of disposable major characters as well.

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A mule is kind of a donkey, and apparently literature from southern US is supposed to have a dead mule somewhere. RJ joked about this since he lived in the south, but so far had failed to include said mule.
A mule is only half donkey. On its father's side (the mother is a horse). A dead one is one that has shuffled of its mortal coil, one that has ceased to be, an ex-mule, it's bereft of life, and it would be pushing up daisies of it wasn't nailed to its perch (mules do perch, honest). Or perhaps it's only stunned.

 

He isn't afraid to kill or maim anyone, unlike RJ, where most of the main characters are still going after 11 books.
RJ has hardly been afraid to maim his characters, has he? Indeed, when it serves the story he kills them off - the same as Martin. The difference is that GRRM has done it to major characters while RJ still has a use for his major characters, and so can only dispose of more minor ones. So I would say the principle difference is that Martin had some disposable major characters - characters important to the story, but who fulfill their roles and complete their own stories before the completion of the series. Perhaps RJ should have planned a couple of disposable major characters as well.

 

What are you talking about? Randland is real. RJ just discovered a book written by Loial 9000 years ago, and he took his time in translation. Now Sanderson is using the key to translate the rest.

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chuckles - my 2 cents worth -

 

 

                          GRRM writes in a way and style that makes everyone human, in all our glorious goodness and our dastardly wickedness, he has a way to make you "feel" for certain characters even though we know they are not nice people overall, and - he gives things in a realistic way - the good guy you root for doesnt always win through. truth be told - we all knew very early on that rand,mat, and perrin are going to be at TG so we were safe to "feel" and immerse ourselves into thier world whereas in ASoIaF the death of the young wolf literally knocked me off my feet.  to me JR is a late adolescent/early twenties reader type audience wheras GRRM is a much more mature reader target audience. I might have said that the wrong way but hope you folks get what im trying to say

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I've been reading RJ since DR was released, and look forward to each release. However, I do enjoy Martin more, but it's more because of the type of story and uncertainty inherent in the story.

 

There are no "disposible" characters that are killed off. It's more like if Jordan decided to kill off Perrin in book 5, with the rest of the characters then reeling to figure out how to continue with one of the three who must be at the last battle is gone.

 

Or you could say that Martin's take on his story is more like not revealing that Rand is the Dragon is until very late in the series. Indeed there is a character in ASoIaF that could indeed be a character of prophecy, destined to do great things. But as of book 4, it is still not known. There are plenty of theories, though. :) The prohecies are interpreted by rival groups in multiple ways, each group certain the prophecy is for them. For example, at the beginning of book two, there is a red comet in the sky. Everyone thinks it's a sign for his or her ascention.

 

As for the sex, it's graphic, but not romance novel so. It's not glorified or described blow by blow (no pun intended). But the language deosn't treat it like something no to be mentioned either. Martin is as frank with his descriptions of sex/nudity as he is with his violence.

 

In line with the R nature of the books, I wouldn't recommend Martin to anyone younger than say 15 or 16.

 

ETA: A good comparison between the series: Wheel of Time is like Gladiator as Song of Ice and Fire is like HBO's Rome. I love both movies, but for different reasons.

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There are no "disposible" characters that are killed off.
Actually, it is only the diposable characters that are killed off. The same with RJ. Still have a use for a character? They stay around. No further use for a character? Get rid of them. Maybe by killing, maybe not. It's all done to serve the story. Ned had a purpose. When his story was finished and his purpose fulfilled, why keep him around? In fact, doing so would be counterproductive. So, say bye to your head. He is still a well drawn character, and an important one, but he is, ultimately, disposable. That is why he is disposed of.

 

Or you could say that Martin's take on his story is more like not revealing that Rand is the Dragon is until very late in the series. Indeed there is a character in ASoIaF that could indeed be a character of prophecy, destined to do great things. But as of book 4, it is still not known.
Yes, it is. It's Dany. We were told that. We have plenty of evidence to support that. Dany is the Prince That Was Promised.
For example, at the beginning of book two, there is a red comet in the sky.
It first appears in a Dany chapter at the end of the first book. Where she wakes dragons from stone etc. Dany is AAR/PTWP. All the evidence supports this.

 

We all knew very early on that rand,mat, and perrin are going to be at TG
But we don't know how they will get there, and in what state they will be in when they arive. Both very important points. Martin just adds a bit more on top - don't know who will arrive, not always sure where they are going.
In ASoIaF the death of the young wolf literally knocked me off my feet.
Maybe you should read sitting down then? Looks like you made the mistake of thinking he was important. If this was Robb's story, it would be told from his POV. For a lot of his stuff we get Cat's. Because GRRM was telling her story. The Young Wolf was a part of that story. But he was a part of her story, not the other way round. Still, got to love "Jaime Lannister sends his regards".

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Yes, it is. It's Dany. We were told that. We have plenty of evidence to support that. Dany is the Prince That Was Promised.

 

It first appears in a Dany chapter at the end of the first book. Where she wakes dragons from stone etc. Dany is AAR/PTWP. All the evidence supports this.

 

I wouldn't put money on this. Everyone else has been wrong about this - Rhaegar about it being Aegon, Melisandre about it being Stannis - so I wouldn't bet on it being Daenerys, although she is now the leading candidate. Jon cannot be ruled out either, due to his (presumed) connection to Ice and Fire, whilst a flaw with Dany is that she has no link to Ice (with both her parents being Targaryens, linked to Fire). Still, if it didn't turn out to be Dany, that would make Maester Aemon's contribution to the story to be pointless, so I think it is Dany.

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A flaw with Dany is that she has no link to Ice (with both her parents being Targaryens, linked to Fire).
I don't think this is really necessary. Certainly there has been no indication within the story that I can recall that the Song of Ice and Fire necessitates a Prince That Was Promised with a connection to ice. Rhaegar believed himself the PTWP, and then Aegon. Although neither was correct, neither had that connection to ice and Rhaegar didn't seem to think it was needed. Considering he has read the prophecies, there may be something in that. Likewise Aemon doesn't see the need for a connection to ice. But she has woken Dragons from stone, etc. which is a fulfillment of prophecy. Indeed, as Aemon's reasoning for naming Dany as the "Prince" is due to the genderless nature of Dragons, it seems that what they are really looking for is a Targaryen. Which Dany is, full blood. Jon is half Stark. So I would say Dany is by far the best bet.

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ASoFaI was the first series I read where so many primary characters died. It was horrifying at first but I actually eventually liked it-because that is how real life is.

 

The deaths of the various characters is very very real and makes the series thrilling in a way different from the WoT. I would say that the WoT is somewhat predictable but GRRM's work is exactly the opposite.

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