Perrin. Not as good a friend?

[merlinspetrock]

You know how you sometimes have those friends that arent quite as good of friends as others, yet you hang with them? Does anyone besides me think Perrin is one of those friends? Sure he has to be there for Rand 2x or all will go bad, but do you think that Perrin is a (lets call them) "Second Class or B Class" friend to Rand as opposed to Mat who is one of his first tier friends? My opinion is yes. Perrin grew up mostly in the main Town of Eomonds Field a little bit apart from Rand and Mat. I do believe Perrins sense of duty makes him reliable, but I find him on the outside of things in the story. Maybe its due to him devoting everything to Faile, but even in the begining he was different. He was the one seperated while Rand and Mat did their own thing, even without Faile I always found him to be a little apart from the others. Maybe they wernt all best friends, maybe they are all in this predicament due to his closeness in age to the

others, Im not sure.

 

Give me some input. What does everyone else think?

[Jedimuppet]

You know how you sometimes have those friends that arent quite as good of friends as others' date=' yet you hang with them? Does anyone besides me think Perrin is one of those friends? Sure he has to be there for Rand 2x or all will go bad, but do you think that Perrin is a (lets call them) "Second Class or B Class" friend to Rand as opposed to Mat who is one of his first tier friends? My opinion is yes. Perrin grew up mostly in the main Town of Eomonds Field a little bit apart from Rand and Mat. I do believe Perrins sense of duty makes him reliable, but I find him on the outside of things in the story. Maybe its due to him devoting everything to Faile, but even in the begining he was different. He was the one seperated while Rand and Mat did their own thing, even without Faile I always found him to be a little apart from the others. Maybe they wernt all best friends, maybe they are all in this predicament due to his closeness in age to the

others, Im not sure.

 

Give me some input. What does everyone else think?[/quote']

 

I don't know. I like them both, and I understand what being friends with Rand is doing to them, but Mat has always been the one who resented Rand (he's getting better now), and Perrin has always said he'd do what needed doing.

 

Regardless of why he's doing his duty by his friend, there was never any doubt in my mind that Perrin would do it. I always thought there was a chance of Mat betraying Rand, to be honest. It seemed at times that he almost hated him. I think that's better now, and he'll be there, too, now that he's done some growing up.

 

So I think they're both very good friends to Rand, but Perrin's loyalty is unquestioned.

J

[Guest Winespring Brother]

Perrin's loyalty to Rand is not unquestioned, because his chief loyalty is to his wife. He would let Rand die if it meant saving his wife.

[Inara]

i agree with J.

mat lived in the village too, so if any one is the outcast friend it is rand....which he is not.

 

perrin was the level-headed one in the friendship, the voice of reason, mat was the one who caused alot of the trouble for them, and they liked it. rand could be either.

 

you often see friendships develop with this combination of personalities. mine, for example.

i had the stupid ideas, my friend crystal helped me plan them and my other friend melise tried to talk us out of it...or at least tone it down...

luckly for us, we were as good at getting out of detention as getting into it....

i moved away some years ago, but we still see each other bianually and talk on the phone all the time.

nobody is the third wheel, and nobody is second class

[Jedimuppet]

Perrin's loyalty to Rand is not unquestioned' date=' because his chief loyalty is to his wife. He would let Rand die if it meant saving his wife.[/quote']

 

That's not a fair comparison. That's like saying who would you let die to save your wife? I'm not sure if you're married or not, but if/when you are, you'll understand. That's a special bond that doesn't take away from his friendship with Rand.

 

You can't take his mental state when Faile was captured as really indicative of his actual thoughts. Perrin has bled for Rand many times. He's a good friend.

J

[merlinspetrock]

Just seems to me that Perrin always seems to go with the flow, as Mat makes his promises and it must mean something to him to promise to Rand, as he always does it even to the point of the outrageous. Im not bagging on Perrin by any means. He is the stolid friend. He is always there when needed. I was just wondering who the better friends were. IMO Mat and Rand were better friends before the story and Perrin was like their 3rd mate.

[merlinspetrock]

I don't know. I like them both' date=' and I understand what being friends with Rand is doing to them, but Mat has always been the one who resented Rand (he's getting better now), and Perrin has always said he'd do what needed doing.

J[/quote']

 

See I always took this as if my friend called me up and said he just got arrested. I would bitch and moan about going to get him, but in the end I always will. Mat is a moaner and complainer. Even when he wants to go his own way, he always gets sucked back in.

[Deathblade]

It always seemed that Mat was more loyal to Rand than Perrin. Mat will complain but is the most honorable, loyal character in the books. Perrin, on the other hand is not. While loyalty to Faile is understandable, it is unreasonable. When faced with the obliteration of all things by the dark one, the only possoble savior of humanity whould be your priority. Not a girl who deflectes him from what must be done, and actively tries to turn him against Rand.

[Kadere]

Mat ONLY went with Rand because the Finns told him he HAD to or his destiny would be thrown off. Mat wanted to leave and go gamble in as far from Rand as he could get. Even after visting Rhudiean the ONLY reason he didn't leave was because he didn't know how to get out without using the power. He was forced into being with Rand. The only reason he traveled with Rand after Shadar Logath was because it just happened that he ran into Rand. I'm not saying Mat's a bad friend, not at all. But he's not following Rand because Rand's his friend, he's following Rand because he's forced to, he'd rather be anywhere else.

 

Perrin, after Shadar Logath, took care of Egwene for a couple of reasons including he knew Rand would want him to. He was behind Rand immediatly after finding out Rand was the Dragon Reborn in TGH. He's tried countless times to save Rand or help him in fights. Because of Rand's distancing he finally forced Perrin away, and even then Perrin didn't go home but instead went to find Mesema because that's what Rand would want him to do. He fought at Emond's Field because he knew Rand wanted him to and couldn't himself. EVERYTHING he's done (up until WH) has been for Rand. And THEN he destroys the Shaido Aiel and makes an allience with the Seanchan which TOTALLY benifits Rand.

 

Perrin has done a LOT to help Rand, and so has Perrin. All three are ta'veren and locked together. All of them are good friends.

[Inara]

faile NERVER tried to turn perrin gainst rand...

 

she wanted him to understand that he and rand will nerver be able to return to the carefree relationship they had as boys...EVER

he is a ruler, and perin, as a citizen of the light, is his subject..like it or not.

she doesnt know him, and lets face it, by the time she meets him for the first time he could be pretty scary, she doesnt see rand how he was before, and perrin took a while to stop seeing him like that

 

as a side note, perring didnt go after messema beacuse rand "would have wanted him too", he went because rand asked him too, the fight was staged so that people would not see his real purpose until it was too late

[Luckers]

Mat's more fun the Perrin, but i think Perrin is capable of a deeper friendship then Mat. And Mat was never more loyal then Perrin. Perrin always did what he should, not just what he had to. Mat admittedly is beginning to change, but Perrin was still more loyal.

 

Just think back to when Mat and Perrin found out Rand could channel. Who was the better friend then?

[Dragon89]

acctually both acted near the same mat acted like a little kid when he found out rand could channel and perrin acted like the adult, but perrin still said that rand should leave and go somewhere else just as much as mat did so i would say both are loyal to rand but perrin is more loyal to faile and will do what she says before he even thinks of doing what rand said.

[ono-neko]

Here's how I see it for Perrin and Faile. When two people are married, at times, you cannot see them as seperate entity anymore. When you are questioning Perrin's loyalty to Rand, you should consider it as "Perrin and Faile's loyalty to Rand". They may be two different people, but again, they are also united as one by marriage.

 

So, does Faile affect Perrin's loyalty to Rand? I have to say to certain extend, yes, but I don't think that his loyalty waver because of Faile. Faile has become the 2nd half of Perrin. Losing Faile means losing half of who Perrin is (after the marriage, and because of love). I am sure Perrin and Faile will still help Rand when he asked of them, however, they also have responsibility to each other as marriage has bound them together. Also, because of marriage, Faile SHOULD and HAS TO be the closest friend Perrin has more than Rand to Perrin, because she is the his half, and he is her half.

 

At least that's how I look at it...

[Guest Fire Lord]

Both Matt and Perrin are good friends to Rand, but I also get the feeling that there is a little bit more between Rand and Matt. True, Matt complains a lot, but deep inside he doesn't really mean it. You should remember that when they found out Rand could channel Matt had that taint from the dagger scrambling his mind, that could be part of the way he reacted. Perrin already had yellow eyes and all that, it helped him to understand Rand.

[Leafburner]

"You know how you sometimes have those friends that arent quite as good of friends as others, yet you hang with them? Does anyone besides me think Perrin is one of those friends?" - merlinspetrock

 

Absolutely not.

 

"Sure he has to be there for Rand 2x or all will go bad, but do you think that Perrin is a (lets call them) "Second Class or B Class" friend to Rand as opposed to Mat who is one of his first tier friends?" - merlinspetrock

 

No. I don't see any evidence at all for this train of thought. The entire time Mat and Rand were together they were arguing and Mat thought about nothing more than getting away from Rand. When Perrin and Rand reunited, they had a great night of catching up and laughing. I'm not saying Perrin is a better friend to Rand than Mat. I'm just saying that Rand being the Dragon Reborn has put a little strain on his friendships with Mat and Perrin.

 

"My opinion is yes. Perrin grew up mostly in the main Town of Eomonds Field a little bit apart from Rand and Mat." - merlinspetrock

 

I don't see that this is proof of anything. Rand lived on a farm, so the only time he would have ever encountered either Mat or Perrin was when he went into town.

 

"I do believe Perrins sense of duty makes him reliable, but I find him on the outside of things in the story. Maybe its due to him devoting everything to Faile, but even in the begining he was different. He was the one seperated while Rand and Mat did their own thing, even without Faile I always found him to be a little apart from the others. Maybe they wernt all best friends, maybe they are all in this predicament due to his closeness in age to the

others, Im not sure." - merlinspetrock

 

Yes, Perrin was seperated from Mat and Rand before they were seperated from one another, but do you really think this is due to his status as Rand's friend? I think others have mentioned that Mat only went to Rhuidien with Rand because the Finns told him he had to. Do you not think he would have been off like a shot the first chance he had?

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Shadow Rising was quite clear about why Mat stayed and it wasn't loyalty or friendship. He stayed because the Pattern was forcing him too. Perrin's task was to go back to the Two Rivers. He had the appearance of acting of his own volition, but it was because he accepted his fate. Mat kept wanting to run, so the Pattern held him tighter and kept closing all other options. Perrin's leaving had nothing to do with being a poorer friend and Mat's staying had nothing to do with being a better friend.

 

Having either Matt or Perrin as a lesser friend (more precisely, of lesser importance) actually goes against the pattern that is established by having 3 main characters rather than just the one. The main hero will always fail without the other 2 backing him up. You see the same thing with Gollum/Sam/Frodo, Ron/Hermione/Harry, Han/Leia/Luke, Bones/Spock/Kirk. (Looking for God in Harry Potter, John Granger) The three parts are representative of body (desire), mind (will) and spirit (heart). The main character, Rand, is Spirit (channelling), Mat is mind (strategy, innovation) and Perrin is body (passion, strength). Each of the 3 can and will express traits of the other 2, but to a lesser degree. My daughter takes Karate and you have the same thing represented by the Dragon/Tiger/Crane and in the name of her initial Kata (Sanchin) being "Three Steps or Three Conflicts" standing for body, mind and spirit.

 

Anyway, enough (too much?) philosophizing for today.

[Inara]

this is exactly what i was trying to say before, pairs are actually less common than trios in friensdhips.

not to mention 3 is a fairly powerful literary number, 3 musketeers, all those mentioned above,

not to mention the holy trinity...

there are number which have special meaning, not everybody knows why (i dont), but 3, 7, 40 etc etc

there are heaps of others too, but i have always thought rand mat and perrin as a tripod, or a three legged stool. only one leg has to be cut/removed/broken for the whole thing to fall over

[Eve]

Ok people, until you are happily married you will never understand the relationship between Faile and Perrin. I have been married for nearly 4 years now and I love my husband more than life itself, but if a friend needs me I am right there no matter what. Even if my husband doesn't like this friend. Perrin would do anything to keep Faile safe, but he would jump off a cliff for Rand also. I can't believe anyone would doubt Perrin.

[Eve]

Well put cwelt

[Aviendha]

I think that cwestervelt put it very well but I can also understand why the question was originally raise. Perin does seem to be more focused on Faile than Rand - he even admits it himself at one point, wondering what it made of him if he was prepared to let anything (anything!) happen so long as he could keep Faile safe & well. Mat has always struggled against what the pattern has chosen for him but he seems to be 'maturing' of late ... more accepting of what is. Of the two characters I find Mat's more appealing ... he's the rogue that has had the tables turned on him (Tuon). Perin is more solid but also more rigid. He needs to lighten up.

[Dragon Fly]

• Rand,Matt and Perrin grew up as best friends; Matt may complain but he knows his duty. Perrin puts his wife 1st - which is how it is supposed to be with "normal" people. Unfortunatly Perrin has "duty" if he isn't there for Rand there won't be a world for him to live "happily ever afer" with Faile! Plus I just don't like Faile ever since Roland, Berlain called off "the game" when Faile was kidnapped, so at least she has respect in ones absence. I just hope Perrin finds out, I know it will hurt but he should drop Faile like a hot potato and make her apologize on her hands and knee for being a cheating self serving :twisted: "little girl"! Matt may be a stinker but he ends up doing the right thing when it counts!

[Kadere]

wait a minute. When the hell did Faile cheat on Perrin with Roland? Did I totally miss this part? I think I would have noticed a sex scene between the two.

[Eve]

FAILE DID NOT CHEAT ON PERRIN!!!!

[Guest cwestervelt]

Faile did not cheat. The book is quite clear that she continued to refuse Rolan's advances. Don't confuse her concern that she would eventually be forced into it, with acceptance.

 

Even if she had, Perrin's thoughts clearly showed that he would accept it because she would have been doing what was necessary to survive.

 

"No. They... No, Perrin, they didn't hurt me." There were other smells mixed in with her joy, though, laced through it inextricably. The dull, aching scent of sadness and the greasy aroma of guilt. Shame, like thousands of hair-fine needles pricking. Well, the man was dead, and a woman had the right to keep her secrets if she wanted.

 

Knife of Dreams Chapter 30 "Outside the Gates" Page 651

[Guest Cadsuane]

I do see why this topic was brought up, but I think the reason why Perrin seems to be less of a close friend than Mat is simply because Mat and Rand have spent more time together "on camera" than Rand and Perrin. When we are first introduced to the characters, and still forging our impressions of them, Perrin is separated from Mat and Rand, and the other two go through a rather harrowing journey through Shadar Logoth to Caemlyn, etc., TOGETHER. So it just makes sense that they would seem to be more friends than Rand and Perrin.

 

Also, there is a difference between a close friend and a good friend. I think Mat is a closer friend than Perrin, but I think Perrin is probably a better friend. Does that make sense?