Clues on the "real" Last Battle

[r.barnes]

Long time reader of WOT.

 

Not sure if topic has been covered from this point of view yet.

 

Always thought Jordan had something planned for the Last Battle

that isnt quite what everyone (in the book and out) thinks its going to be.

 

Several clues worth considering.

 

1.) Luc was told he was vital to the Last Battle and went

to get "merged" with Isam.

 

2.) Rand keeps seeing Mordin face, like they are connected some how.

 

3.) Min's vision about him merging with someone and one living and one dieing.

 

4.) Rand was told by Alefinn that to Live he must Die

 

5.) Nicola fortelling that hints Rand will be around.

 

6.) Rand was also told by Alefinn "that the two must be as one" to win Last Battle.

 

7.) The Creators booming voice in Book 1. That only the Chosen one "can do what must be done"

"if he will" ..... what is it that has to be done?

 

8.) I still think Fain has some major role to play also with his "opposite evil"

 

There also other subtle clues in his conversations with the old philospher

that was torn apart by Isam I assume.

 

Somewhere in there is the key. With merging with someone else like Luc and Isam did.

Not quite sure the Dark One is really what we think he is either.

Like maybe he's the Dark soul of the Dragon and split somehow. .........

 

Thoughts and opinions ??????

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

I would assume that most of us are expecting outright war in the Borderland/Blight borders. And likely a more private war between high powers at Shayol Ghul itself.

 

I fail to see the question here. Most of the points you have listed have been more or less explained.

 

1) Luc was told to leave Andor-presumably because he may have gone hunting after Tigraine which would have prevented the birth of the Dragon. The merging with Isam was not intentional and there is no proof that anyone said that he is vital for TG.

 

2) That would be due to the crossing of True Power and One Power bale fire streams in Lord of Chaos. It remains a mystery. But how do you link this to TG?

 

3) Again, how do you link this to TG?

 

4) That has been discussed on many threads. Try the search bar and you'll get all the info you want. ;)

 

5) same as above

 

6) already explained in KOD. Refers to the territorial control of Randland by Seanchan and Randland people.

 

7) No idea there. But can't see how you propose that TG will be different from what we expect by using those words that echoed in the first book. And also, there is no direct proof that it was the creator (though it probably was).

[cloglord]

1.  It was rumored that Gitara sent him to find his destiny, but there is not a citable reference to this foretelling, or even to the fact that is is an actual foretelling.  However, I do agree that it will play a part, I'm not sure how it will resolve itself, my quess is that slayer/Luc will be respnsible for the removal of Fain, and will therefore play a vital role in the resolution of this plotline.  That is only a guess though.

 

2.  I agree with RANDALTHOR that the most likely cause of the Moridin/Rand link is the crossed balefire streams.  I would suggest a search for Lucker's bodyswap theory as it is a very discerning look at this issue.

 

3,4, &5.  While I think that these prophetic instances are all related, there is no good proof that they are related directly to TG, and they may very well refer to happenings post TG.  Of course it would not suprose me in the least if these viewings are resolved during TG.

 

8.  I agree that Fain still has a rolet to play, and that is why I link him back to slayer in my mind.  Slayer has been tracking Fain for a long, long time now.  Considering that Slayer is one of the Shadow's heavy hitters, it leads me to believe that the Shadow really really wants Fain dead for some reason, perhaps they have information about his role in TG that we do not.  If you think about it, Slayer has been around The wondergirls, Mat, and Perrin at different times during the series, and yet he doesn't get assigned to take them out, instead he gets sicced on Fain.  What's up with that?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Probably the biggest clue we have about Rand's part in TG comes from the early books.  Every actual battle he has fought against any of the Forsaken has occurred off-world.    It seems to me that the likelihood of some kind of repeat of that pattern during TG, is high.

[Lews_Windu]

Except for Sammael in CoS- unless you're counting Shadar Logoth as a separate world.

[Bob T Dwarf]

He never actually fought Sam.  Chased him.  Nearly died in Sam's first ambush.  Got distracted by Leah's plight, and Sam had vanished into Mashadar by the time he looked that way again.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

i think you mean 'killed' him.

 

i'm pretty sure the exchanges of OP that ripped into stone walls could be considered fighting ;).

[Guest Dreadlord]

2 & 3) I reckon these two are the same thing. Moridin, as mentioned, has been linked to Rand since they crossed balefires. As time has passed the link has either become stronger or Rand is figuring it out bit by bit. Remember, he thought a few times "If either moved a hairswidth, they will touch." I reckon they touch, merge, and one dies. Maybe Moridin will die, maybe this will tie in with the die and live again thing.

 

6.) Its been a while, but I remember the Finns saying something like "The South and East must be as one. The North and West must be as one. The two must be as one."

 

OK I may have the directions paired up wrong, but the important bit is the last sentance. I think the Finns simply meant that Rand had to have all the nations behind him to win.

 

And the old philosopher-Herid Fel-was torn apart by the gholam, not Isam. I remember quite clearly that it says outright that it was the gholam.

[RAND AL THOR]

 

 

6.) Its been a while, but I remember the Finns saying something like "The South and East must be as one. The North and West must be as one. The two must be as one."

 

OK I may have the directions paired up wrong, but the important bit is the last sentance. I think the Finns simply meant that Rand had to have all the nations behind him to win.

 

 

 

It meant that the West and South needs to be held by the Seanchan and that the North and East is held by Rand. At least, that is how Rand thought of it.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Thats the one. And that the two must be as one, meaning they must be working together

[RAND AL THOR]

yapyap. And that;s why Rand wanted a truce with the Seanchan.

[Mr Ares]

7.) The Creators booming voice in Book 1. That only the Chosen one "can do what must be done"

"if he will" ..... what is it that has to be done?

Save the world, perhaps?

Not quite sure the Dark One is really what we think he is either.

Like maybe he's the Dark soul of the Dragon and split somehow. .........

Shai'tan is the dark counterpart to the Creator. They are equals, yet opposites.

[Luckers]

1.) Luc was told he was vital to the Last Battle and went

to get "merged" with Isam.

 

I've always thought this curious. People have raised this issue going 'why would Gitara send him north to serve the Shadow', suggesting maybe it might mean Gitara was Black... but foretellings arn't so clear as that. Gitara had no reason to know the purpose of his importance.

 

And concider, as Slayer he's done some things that have been beneficial to the Light. His taunting of Perrin in the two rivers directly led to his disgust causing the speach causing the two rivers to gather behind him as their lord--everything Perrin's done since then stems from that moment. Saving Rand from the Aes Sedai, destroying the Shaido and so on. What of Amico and Joiya, what if they had some critical role to play on behalf of the shadow, and he killed them. What of smaller stuff--he did save a few individuals here and there, what if they go on to play pivotal roles in the last battle. Some are Asha'men, some novices. It's possible.

 

The fact is that by become a figure for the Shadow Luc may well be causing things that will aid the victory of the Light. Foretelling can be obscure.

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

7.) The Creators booming voice in Book 1. That only the Chosen one "can do what must be done"

"if he will" ..... what is it that has to be done?

Save the world, perhaps?

 

 

omg this was so funny!

 

About the Luc issue, it is my understanding that Luc was sent to the High Passes or whatever. But I don't recall any data stating that Luc was considered vital for the Last Battle. Was any such proof given? I always assumed that Gitara sent him so that he wouldn't interfere with Tigraine.

[Luckers]

When she sent him there were rumours of a foretelling being involved--but then again, there were rumours of foretelling being involved in almost everything Gitara did.

[RAND AL THOR]

When she sent him there were rumours of a foretelling being involved--but then again, there were rumours of foretelling being involved in almost everything Gitara did.

 

Ah I see.

 

The more time I spend on this forum, the more questions pop up. There is so much left in AMOL!

[Luckers]

Mmm. its why the world of the wheel is so rich, so vibrant. There will be questions left after Amol.

[Yllek]

I'm reviving this thread becasue it seems appropriate for my question here.  Forgive me if this has been discussed as nausium.

 

I'm re-reading the series and I can't get Padin Fain out of my head as being a very important part of the last battle; perhaps a key to winning.  It was explained in several places in TGH that Mordeth/SL intended to use hate AGAINST the Dark One. Will Fain actually succeed in this through his hate of Rand?

 

And Mordin and Rand being linked; it's believed that this occurred when their balefire streams crossed.  Balefire burns a persons thread out of the patter.  When their streams touched, maybee their threads got twisted together (the 2 become one).  Ishmael, talking to Rand in a prolouge, says something to the effect that when 2 people fight each other for so long, they essentially become allies to one another over time.  Does this hint at Mordin/Ishy helping Rand to keep the wheel spinning rather than have the DO destroy it?

 

Fain wants desperately to kill Rand... do you think that Fain is able to sence the difference between Rand and Mordin?  What are the chances that Fain will kill Mordin by mistake (using hate against the dark one)?

 

The light's heros are kept in (the dream world - don't make me spell it).  Are the shadow's heros kept there as well - surely the shadow is allowed to have heros - otherwise, how does Ishy fight Rand 'since the beginning of time'? 

[Majsju]

I'm re-reading the series and I can't get Padin Fain out of my head as being a very important part of the last battle; perhaps a key to winning.  It was explained in several places in TGH that Mordeth/SL intended to use hate AGAINST the Dark One. Will Fain actually succeed in this through his hate of Rand?

 

Maybe. I have for a long time kept the hope that Fain will get a "Gollum-moment", where he helps Rand save the day, and in my book having Fain kill SH would be an awesome way to achieve this.

 

[...]Does this hint at Mordin/Ishy helping Rand to keep the wheel spinning rather than have the DO destroy it?

 

Not really, at least not intentionally.

 

Fain wants desperately to kill Rand... do you think that Fain is able to sence the difference between Rand and Mordin?  What are the chances that Fain will kill Mordin by mistake (using hate against the dark one)?

 

Despie the connection between Rand and Moridin, they afre separate individuals, so Fain should definitly not getthem confused (if he for some reason approached Moridin with his eyes closed...)

 

The light's heros are kept in (the dream world - don't make me spell it).  Are the shadow's heros kept there as well - surely the shadow is allowed to have heros - otherwise, how does Ishy fight Rand 'since the beginning of time'? 

 

The Light does not have any Heroes. The Heroes are serving the Wheel, which, while it for obvious reasons serves the Light more than the Shadow, is quite different from directly serving the Light.

 

As for Ishys comment about fighting Rand since the beginning of time, keep in mind that one of Ishys nicknames is Father of Lies...And then add to that that he was/is quite insane.

[Jethro]

I have some wild speculation on the Rand-Moridin link. I'll not go into all of it but I remember in a Fain PoV him noting a difference in his link to Rand, he thought it felt as though he shared the link with someone else. This wasn't long after Alanna bonded Rand so its safe to assume it was indeed Alanna Fain was thinking of.

 

Take into account that the Rand-Moridin connection isnt a standard bonding, nothing we've seen in the series at all before or since. Go back to the incedent of their connection in your minds. Rand and Moridin shoot balefire, and they touch. From boths' PoVs, the balefire undoes what the other did. If Rand outdoes Moridins, Moridins didnt outdo Rands, meaning they didnt touch at all. The same the other way round. As both balefires try to undo each other the time affect creates a knot in the Pattern, bringing Rand and Moridins threads together. The threads touch briefly, creating a connection. A connection not of the body or mind, but of their thread in the Pattern. Is there much difference between a soul and a thread in the Pattern? What I am getting around to is, Rand now shares something with Moridin I think. They are connected more closely than an Aes Sedai is to he Warder it seems, but maybe the part of Rand that Moridin shares is the part Fain can feel.

 

As I said, the nature of the link is unique, and Fain is aware of Rands connection to Alanna, and possibly to Elayne, Aviendha and Min as well. Who knows how it will turn out? I dont mind either way as long as Rand and Moridin get their god damn one-on-one! Im not saying Rand vs Moridin would be the significant end fight type, just that it'd be epic.