Whats going to happen to Fain?

[RAND AL THOR]

I care very little for Fain. His powers have not been reasonably explained and he pops up here and there in the series and does some huge amount of damage (Emond's field, Rand's wound etc). If he were a more consistent character it may have been more interesting.

[Lord Nik]

agreed, his inconsistency and big nose put me off liking him. not that big noses are bad but his is evil. and the black wind explanation has always been (in my mind) fain is already insane, his soul was to scary for the black wind to handle, so for some primal fear the black wind listens

[MatrixM]

I care very little for Fain. His powers have not been reasonably explained and he pops up here and there in the series and does some huge amount of damage (Emond's field, Rand's wound etc). If he were a more consistent character it may have been more interesting.

That's all part of the beauty of the Fain character.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

not neccessarily.  he DOES want to kill rand.  if rand has to rush to toman head, then he will be exhausted, compared to getting there through the ways, where he will still be full strength.

He doesn't have to rush straight in, he can rest after arriving on Toman Head, learn the lay of the land. The longer that passes, the less likely the Seanchan are to be remaining watchful for Rand. Or maybe Rand goes crazy and dies while Fain is waiting for him.

 

in bold: i don't have any clue you're talking about.  why would they be watching for rand when he hadn't even declared himself yet?

 

in italics:  um...mission accomplished then? 

[billoumm7]

ok out of the past and into the present! rand isnt on toman head, where is rand i forget, but fain's easiest target would be matt, small force, and nothing but luck to protect or warn him.

[MatrixM]

What? When is this scenario taking place?

[Mr Ares]

not neccessarily.  he DOES want to kill rand.  if rand has to rush to toman head, then he will be exhausted, compared to getting there through the ways, where he will still be full strength.

He doesn't have to rush straight in, he can rest after arriving on Toman Head, learn the lay of the land. The longer that passes, the less likely the Seanchan are to be remaining watchful for Rand. Or maybe Rand goes crazy and dies while Fain is waiting for him.

in bold: i don't have any clue you're talking about.  why would they be watching for rand when he hadn't even declared himself yet?

 

in italics:  um...mission accomplished then?

I never said they were looking for the Dragon Reborn, I said they were looking for Rand al'Thor. The same Rand al'Thor that Fain had mentioned was an evil Darkfriend who was following him to Toman Head. Leave it a while, and looking for said DF is no longer uppermost in their minds - Rand could slip through. And how is the mission accompished when Fain wants to kill Rand and he ends up dying a couple of hundred miles away? He doesn't just want him dead.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

not neccessarily.  he DOES want to kill rand.  if rand has to rush to toman head, then he will be exhausted, compared to getting there through the ways, where he will still be full strength.

He doesn't have to rush straight in, he can rest after arriving on Toman Head, learn the lay of the land. The longer that passes, the less likely the Seanchan are to be remaining watchful for Rand. Or maybe Rand goes crazy and dies while Fain is waiting for him.

in bold: i don't have any clue you're talking about.  why would they be watching for rand when he hadn't even declared himself yet?

 

in italics:  um...mission accomplished then?

I never said they were looking for the Dragon Reborn, I said they were looking for Rand al'Thor. The same Rand al'Thor that Fain had mentioned was an evil Darkfriend who was following him to Toman Head. Leave it a while, and looking for said DF is no longer uppermost in their minds - Rand could slip through. And how is the mission accompished when Fain wants to kill Rand and he ends up dying a couple of hundred miles away? He doesn't just want him dead.

 

rand was right on fain's ass though.  what, like a day behind?

[Llewin]

I think that Fain's jealousy and possession over Rand will overcome him in the end, and he will attack someone whom Rand is fighting - possibly even one of the Forsaken.

 

Ultimately I see him being killed, but how or by whom I'm not sure. If Rand and Moridin go through a body-switch which has been suggested, it's possible Fain will attack and kill Rand, in fact killing Moridin. Perhaps Rand could even manipulate him (Rand in Moridin's body) to do it for him, but I'm not convinced Fain answers to anyone except the DO, and maybe SH.

I really doubt fain answers to *anyone* but most especially not the DO or SH... The forsaken already consider him a thorn in their side and a HUGE pack of dark hounds are hunting him...

[Llewin]

Elaida's interactions with Fain always bothered me.  She isn't stupid, just rigid in her thinking, self centered, and goal driven (in other words, AS).  Is Fain able to use some sort of compulsion?  I can understand Niall; the lines of authority for DFs is always blurry and caution/obedience the safest ways, but for Elaida to accept anything Fain says seems ridiculous.

 

Pedron Niall was not a dark friend... As to his ability to manipulate... Ordeith (I think that is the name of the original baddie from Shadar Logoth..or was it Mordeth?)... Ordeith was able to turn the king of a nation that was a steadfast ally of manetheren against them and against his own son... Even if its not 'magical' Fain has that man's ability to manipulate...

[benr]

Right.  Sorry.  Niall is not a DF; my error.  He is an idiot, though.  Maybe Balwer can take out Fain somehow - he owes him, too.

[CUBAREY]

He is an idiot, though.

 

 

Pedron Niall was many things, military genious, political strategist, religous fanatic, et., but he was not an idiot.

 

[benr]

Anyone that allows a belief system to create his reality, instead of reality to create his belief system, is an idiot.  It leads to serious errors of judgement - like the virtual destruction of the Whitecloaks (not necessarily a bad thing).

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Anyone that allows a belief system to create his reality, instead of reality to create his belief system, is an idiot.  It leads to serious errors of judgement - like the virtual destruction of the Whitecloaks (not necessarily a bad thing).

And how exactly did he do that?

 

He believed that Rand was being used by the Aes Sedai. Given their history of interference with the world, why is that such a ridiculous leap to make?

 

Being wrong doesn't make him an idiot.

[Aridhol]

I agree that Fain will loose no power due to Sahadar Logoths destruction, it was Mordeth and not Mashadar that tried to take fains soul. Mordeth's soul was trapped in Shadar Logoth he was not a part of Mashadar. Apparently there have been other places to fall to Mashadar (or similar). In [TEOTW: 50, Meetings at the Eye, 628], Aginor refers to the Shadar Mandarb, or the taint on it, as "An old thing, an old friend, an old enemy." (Source http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/1_dark/1.7_sl-fain/1.7.2_mshin-mashadar.html)

[Luckers]

Pedron Niall was a fool, not an idiot. Misguided, but brilliant.

[Snowy Dawn]

``EVERYONE underestimates him except Rand.''

 

Moraine did not underestimate him. She also says at one point (in TEOTW, I think) that very bad things would happen if Mordeth escaped Shadar Logoth, yes? And as a result of the meld with Fain, this happens. (And thus the destruction of Shadar Logoth does not remove the evil of the place, I assume.)

 

Also it seems plausible to me as well that the pack of darkhounds in Crossroads of Twilight is hunting Fain. Once Fain merges, at least in part, with Mordeth, he is no longer the DO's creature, but a loose cannon, as remarked above. Somewhere one of the DO's actual creatures (Luc/Isam? Moridin?) calls Fain, ``the renegade''. And there is also Fain's ability to control Myrdraal, as well, to take into account. 

[Mr Ares]

not neccessarily.  he DOES want to kill rand.  if rand has to rush to toman head, then he will be exhausted, compared to getting there through the ways, where he will still be full strength.

He doesn't have to rush straight in, he can rest after arriving on Toman Head, learn the lay of the land. The longer that passes, the less likely the Seanchan are to be remaining watchful for Rand. Or maybe Rand goes crazy and dies while Fain is waiting for him.

in bold: i don't have any clue you're talking about.  why would they be watching for rand when he hadn't even declared himself yet?

 

in italics:  um...mission accomplished then?

I never said they were looking for the Dragon Reborn, I said they were looking for Rand al'Thor. The same Rand al'Thor that Fain had mentioned was an evil Darkfriend who was following him to Toman Head. Leave it a while, and looking for said DF is no longer uppermost in their minds - Rand could slip through. And how is the mission accompished when Fain wants to kill Rand and he ends up dying a couple of hundred miles away? He doesn't just want him dead.

rand was right on fain's ass though.  what, like a day behind?

Which works to Fain's advantage, surely. He says he's being followed by evil Darkfriend Rand al'Thor, Rand shows up. Provided Turak can be convinced that Rand is a DF (and Mordeth is an expert manipulator, more so than Rand), then Fain gets what he wants - Rand as a prisoner, locked up, subsequently executed or murdered. On the other hand, Fain says he's being followed by evil DF Rand, who then fails to show up for several months. No-one will be looking out for him anymore, it makes it easier for Rand to slip through because people will have forgotten about him by then. Plus, Fain looks bad because the guy who was supposedly on his heels is still not around, months later.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

there is also Fain's ability to control Myrdraal, as well, to take into account. 

 

not exactly...he doesn't actually control them, he just knowledgable enough and willing to torture them.

[billoumm7]

ok... no one knows the extent of fain's powers. its clear that he can control madashar, and MC (the balck wind), but even the forsaken fear him and are wary... and he's got guts... what he did to the fade in tGH that was insane! even one of the forsaken would think twice before doing that! and his link to rand, perin, and matt makes him even more dangerous...

[Mr Ares]

ok... no one knows the extent of fain's powers. its clear that he can control madashar, and MC (the balck wind), but even the forsaken fear him and are wary... and he's got guts... what he did to the fade in tGH that was insane! even one of the forsaken would think twice before doing that! and his link to rand, perin, and matt makes him even more dangerous...

Yes, completely clear he can control Machin Shin....unless you were paying attention to the recent debate on just that in this very thread. It can - at best - be seen as possible that he controls it. It is entirely possible that his ability to find Rand and desire to kill him rubbed off on MS, but that Fain has no control over actions by the BW that could run counter to his goals. And he can control mashadar, can he? I hope you're not going to suggest that the Bubble of Evil in ACoS is any indication of Fain's powers?

[Aridhol]

I agree with Mr Ares, there is no specific information that denotes Fain/Mordeth to have an ability to control Machin Shin or Mashadar, as stated in my previous post Aginor recognises the evil of Mashadar from as far back as the AOL. Shador Logoth was not even about until after the Trolloc Wars (mordeth was alive then).I think Mordeth/Fain is most likely a byproduct of the evil of Aridhol/Shadar Logoth and not a part of Mashadar.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Where has there been any hint of Machin Sin being under Fains control?

 

PS has anyone seen the monster thing in Lost? Reminds me of Mashadar

[bad company]

When rand tries to travel through the ways later in the book you get the impression that Machin Shin is guarding the enterance as he uses several and it's always waiting at the entrance

[Mr Ares]

I agree with Mr Ares, there is no specific information that denotes Fain/Mordeth to have an ability to control Machin Shin or Mashadar, as stated in my previous post Aginor recognises the evil of Mashadar from as far back as the AOL. Shador Logoth was not even about until after the Trolloc Wars (mordeth was alive then).I think Mordeth/Fain is most likely a byproduct of the evil of Aridhol/Shadar Logoth and not a part of Mashadar.

Aginor recognises the Shadar Logoth dagger because he was able to see the world during his imprisonment in the Bore. The evil of Shadar Logoth didn't exist until the Trolloc Wars. And Mashadar is a byproduct of the evil of Shadar Logoth.

 

Where has there been any hint of Machin Sin being under Fains control?

In TGH Rand attempts to follow Fain through the Waygate in Cairhien, and then tries the one at stedding Tsofu. Both times MS is present and prevents Rand's passage through the Ways. However, as Fain wanted Rand to follow him, as he wanted Rand on TomanHead, as he warned the Seanchan that he was being followed by Rand, who he claimed was a DF, I think it unlikely that he set MS in the way and actually harmed his own plan. It's mere presence is not evidence that Fain can control it, although it could be taken that way.