Religion in Randland

[RAND AL THOR]

The people in Randland believe in the Creator- a supernatural being that created the world and established the Wheel of Time itself. That is something very very close to God.

 

But why is there no religion in Randland? Since the earliest times, people have had religious ceremonies to praise their God/Gods. The WOT is set in a medieval-type age so I wondered why RJ didn't bring that notion into play.

 

But actually, I prefer it this way. Religion in Randland would just make everything all the more complicated. But I couldn't help wondering why there is no religion at all.

[Nightstrike]

I think there is religion in Randland, but they don't make a big deal out of it. They know for sure the DO exists, and I think everybody (or near 100%) agrees that the Creator exists as well.

[RAND AL THOR]

Yeah, well I was thinking about the rituals/places of worship/festivals etc...those things are not there. I wonder why?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Religion, with all of its Festivals and Rites, is about convincing yourself and others that what you believe about the unknowable is true.

 

When you have direct and experiential evidence that the Creator exists, and the Canon is incontrovertibly true, there is no need for all the fooforah.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Probably because there is no need to do certain things (worship, have rituals, etc.) to get to a desirable place. The general idea is that if you are loyal to the light and don't support the Dark One, you will be reborn. No rituals or festivals or sermons necessary.

 

Since this world is almost completely united under one belief system, couldn't the festivals people practice be perceived as religious? (Bel Tine, etc.)

 

Perhaps the closest we come to seeing "religion" in Randland is with the Prophet.

 

[RAND AL THOR]

The general idea is that if you are loyal to the light and don't support the Dark One, you will be reborn. No rituals or festivals or sermons necessary.

 

 

 

Ah yes, that makes a lot of sense. A firm simple belief. Very logical of RJ.

But that almost makes the whitecloaks something like the equivalent of priests!

 

couldn't the festivals people practice be perceived as religious? (Bel Tine, etc.)

 

 

The Bel Tine description was fun. I wish we had encountered more stuff like that in other cities. The only other one I can recall is some sort of mild festival in Cairhien where Rand goes there in Book 2, and the mask festival in the latter books where Mat participates. That was really entertaining.

[aevogt]

Religion isn't all that necessary in the WoT.  There IS a devil and he DOES want your immortal soul.

 

In our world, there be no proof or evidence.  In theirs, the truth it do  confront them daily.

 

The Illianer dialect, I did decide to incorporate it into my everyday life.

[Bob T Dwarf]

aevogtmon do be yer name, then.

 

A boat you do be needin' to steal. 

 

A Captain's hat you do be needin'.  Do be makin' it a Tricorn.

 

A parrot you do be needin'.

 

Do be gettin' a hook.  Do be makin' it a BIG hook.

 

aevogtmon the ILLIANER PIRATE you do be then.  Scourge of the storm tossed Dragonmount waters, arrrr.

 

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

I LOVE THAT ACCENT!!!!!!!!!

[BrainFireBob]

RJ addressed this.

 

Channelling is direct evidence of the Creator's existence. There's "proof" of divine power. No need for institutionalized religion.

 

Realize, Luthair Mantelar is an analog, in many ways, of Martin Luther. The Whitecloaks are indeed something of a male priestly schism, since the demise of the male priesthood led to the insular, female-only priesthood.

 

 

[metria31183]

I wouldn't exactly call the Whitecloaks priets.  More like zealots.  Kind of a cross between the Spanish Inquisition (NO ONE SUSPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! HAHAHAHA!!!!!!) and jihadists I think.

[trakand_01]

aevogtmon do be yer name, then.

 

A boat you do be needin' to steal. 

 

A Captain's hat you do be needin'.  Do be makin' it a Tricorn.

 

A parrot you do be needin'.

 

Do be gettin' a hook.  Do be makin' it a BIG hook.

 

aevogtmon the ILLIANER PIRATE you do be then.  Scourge of the storm tossed Dragonmount waters, arrrr.

 

 

 

 

I dont know about an illianer pirate, I think we've got a bit more Captain Jack!

[trakand_01]

I have often wondered about the lack of organised religion in WoT. I'm glad for it.

 

I agree however that there is no need for organised religion - The Dark One exists, and so it is believed that the Creator must also exist.

 

However, I now wonder about the Creator bit. The Dark One is seen to be 'the end' by most ordinary people (Tarmon Gaidon being the Armageddon of Randland), then surely the Creator is 'the beginning'. That sounds logical, my little brain thinks.

 

But then I think of the passage which opens almost every book. There are no beginnings or endings in the Wheel of Time. We presume that TG will 'end' this Age, that we will pass into the next. So, the DO isnt actually the end.

 

So if there's no end... is there a beginning? Is there actually such a thing as the Creator?

[RAND AL THOR]

That's a very good question trakand. Your brain is surely bigger than you think. ;)

 

I have wondered often myself how the Creator created the world when it says all the time that there were no beginnings nor endings. The only possible explanation I have come up with is this:

 

There are no official documents providing proof that the Creator created the world. We just have people saying that all the time(much like they say in our own world). Hence due to lack of proof, that may actually be untrue.

 

We firmly accept the Creator and the DO as separate supernatural beings. But it may not be so. I can see no other answer for that, unless the statement "there are no beginnings nor endings..." refers after the moment of Creation.

[Lille]

 

We firmly accept the Creator and the DO as separate supernatural beings. But it may not be so. I can see no other answer for that, unless the statement "there are no beginnings nor endings..." refers after the moment of Creation.

 

I believe so, because before the moment of creaton there was no time. When the Creator made the Wheel and the Weave, he created time.

[RAND AL THOR]

 

We firmly accept the Creator and the DO as separate supernatural beings. But it may not be so. I can see no other answer for that, unless the statement "there are no beginnings nor endings..." refers after the moment of Creation.

 

I believe so, because before the moment of creaton there was no time. When the Creator made the Wheel and the Weave, he created time.

 

Hmmm, ya makes more sense.

[trakand_01]

 

We firmly accept the Creator and the DO as separate supernatural beings. But it may not be so. I can see no other answer for that, unless the statement "there are no beginnings nor endings..." refers after the moment of Creation.

 

I believe so, because before the moment of creaton there was no time. When the Creator made the Wheel and the Weave, he created time.

 

I'm a system tester, I'm paid to ensure quality and so i have a lot of questions  ;)

 

So, if 'time' didnt exist before the forging of the Wheel, did the Creator exist in a time-and-space vortex? What was here before the Wheel? Surely the Creator didnt just materialise out of thin air, to create a world and a Wheel which would be bound into an infinite circulation of destruction and war? Pretty massuchistic Creator, if he did. Why would any 'Creator' sit by and watch his creation be torn apart by power and egotistical madmen? Who created the Creator? Its chicken and egg. If the Creator came about for a purpose, who's purpose was it? An entity who doesnt exist (pre-creator) can't decide to do something - someone else has to decide to create the Creator... or else he already existed, and had another purpose?

 

Perhaps the Creator and the DO are one and the same after all. He created a world, for his own entertainment, realised it was boring when everyone was a) the same, b) dutiful and c) perfect, and thought he'd introduce vices, imperfections and the human ability to falter over anything, at any time, randomly.

 

Now, he's stuck in a tragic birth-death cycle of his own making.

[CUBAREY]

The Creator is a being outside of the time-space continuum. His purposes are his own and unknowable by his crations within time-space. The DO is a lesser entity then the creator (and a seperate one) but is also outside our time-space contuum, but is sattempting to enter it.

[Luckers]

By what basis do you suggest the Dark One to be lesser being than the Creator? That he was imprisoned? The description of that makes that doubtful.

[CUBAREY]

The Creator "created" the World, the DO is merely attempting to "remake" it in his image. One who can not create but can only affect a creation is by defininition lessor then the Creator of that thing.

[Mr Ares]

The Creator "created" the World, the DO is merely attempting to "remake" it in his image. One who can not create but can only affect a creation is by defininition lessor then the Creator of that thing.

Firstly, that would depend entirely on your definition. Secondly, how do we know Shai'tan can't create? Maybe He simply chooses not to.

[Luckers]

Indeed, and furthermore--i can't carve for my life, but that doesn't mean i couldn't go beat up a carver.

[Mr Ares]

Indeed, and furthermore--i can't carve for my life, but that doesn't mean i couldn't go beat up a carver.

Best wait till he puts down the knife, though.

[Luckers]

Bah. True men enjoy being stabbed.

[CUBAREY]

The Creator is an Artest, an author who creates a world. The DO is a Critic, he can not creatre himself, he can only tear down the creation of others.