Different points of view

[Corbett]

Most of the people i meet and hang around with dont try to pull the whole fantasy is anti-chrisian thing on me. In fact one of my good friends is a pastors son and he and his father love fantasy. One of the funny things about being in the military is when someone says that they are bored and i recommend them readong WoT, the jokingly say, "I joined the Marines, I cant read."

 

Oh, and someone said that if the story had been finished long ago that we wouldnt be rereading to foind the small details. I have to dissagree. For me a great fantasy book can never be reread enough and even if i was born 20 years from now and picked up WoT i would reread it over and over becasue of how intricat complex and amaizing the story and world are.

[trakand_01]

A slight change of information if anyone IS on Facebook and is looking other DM members up - my profile picture is now a ginger dog (Rex), up close, squidged against my partner's arm.

 

:P

[aevogt]

In order to find the actual site of the ancient city of Troy, a group of scholars did exactly what Corbett suggested.  They reread the Illiad and Odyssey until sometihng jumped out at them, in that case a particular hill in Turkey, and that led them to the actual place where those events took place.  

 

A Shakspearean scholar does exactly that as well.  Reading, taking notes, rereading, taking notes, comparing notes, arguing with other scholars.  Sort of what we have here on this board.  

 

Don't look now Corbett but you're preparing yourself for college after the military and you don't even know it.

 

Sweet

[Corbett]

Damn you figured me out. I am actually planning on going through a program that will get me a commision in the marines. I'll be damned if it is for english or history though. Physics and Chemistry all the way

 

[aevogt]

You'll find that most physicists have little use for chemists.  My old Astrophysics professor Dr. Gerty used to wander around campus muttering to himself about the "damn chemists"

 

His opinion was that a Physicist would come up with a perfectly good theory and then some chemist would come along a make a career out of it.  He would place all the inflection into saying "chemist" as anyone else would say "scumbag"

 

I still laugh about that guy.  Named his dog "Io"

 

Word - Take every dime the government is willing to give you to further your education.  If I could go back and do it again, you'd all be calling me Dr. Vogt.

[trakand_01]

We could call it you anyway, if it makes you feel better?  ;D

[42Bonzo88]

    I think it's great Corbett, that your getting into College. I didn't finish myself, but I think it is good to hear anyone trying to gain education. With my dad being a teacher, it was drummed into me from a young age. Your joke about reading was good. Take all the education you can, even if it's not formal. Just getting a class here and there from the web is beneficial too. Good Luck!

[Luthine]

This is a very interesting thread, I had never truly realized how truly different people Wot rallied.

 

As for myself, I'm quite new to the forums and didn't post that much (except in the Org Games section) but I totally think that my background influences my views on WoT, or at least determines some of my reactions to it.

 

I am 20, French, Muslim, born from Tunisian parents (that's North Africa for those of you who are wondering :P) and am studying Philosophy à la Sorbonne (which is less glamorous than it sounds, really, the benches are sooo uncomfortable!).

One of the appeals I find in Wot is how it depicts different cultures, different societies, people and the prejudices and clichés that ensue. All the while not making it look like some are better than another or that some are Good and others just plain Evil. Being a Muslim, with the negative image and stereotypes that carries, it made me especially sensitive to that.

 

Of course being a Muslim doesn't entirely define me and that is only one of the many reasons I love these books but I thought this fitted in the subject of the thread so... There.  ;)

[aevogt]

We could call it you anyway, if it makes you feel better?  ;D

 

 

It just would not be the same without University tenure.

 

And in all honesty, I wouldn't really change a thing.

 

You're British, right?

 

What's with all the Welsh in the Film "Zulu" having the same same so they are numbered.  Is that a joke I'm just not getting?

[Corbett]

We could call it you anyway, if it makes you feel better?  ;D

 

 

It just would not be the same without University tenure.

 

And in all honesty, I wouldn't really change a thing.

 

 

Funny thing, my sergeant says the same thing whenever someone calls him a staff sergeant. he says i would love to be a staff sergeant but it doesnt mean jack shit if you promote me and the commadant doesn't.

[anamul]

Personaly, I think, Church has no reason to worry about WOT. Since its mian theme is Creator vs Devil.

 

Church doesn't approve of fantsay mainly because of "Paganism" and immoral sex appeals in some fantasy. Almost 75% fantasy potrays paganism( a lot of god and godess) and 50% of them potrays immoral and illogical sex relations. So church has a good reason for being agitated. I can name a few myself.

 

In the root of the three main conflicting religion, Christian, Jews and Muslim there is one thing in common, none of them tolerates paganism. It seems for some reason,Moses, Jesus(christ) and Mohammed(sm) had seen paganism as a greatest threats to mankind. And I can't blame them, what with sacrifices and a lot of other immoral stuff.

[trakand_01]

Zulu? I dont think i've seen it. Having said that, the welsh are strange creatures ;-) (Old English / Welsh rivalry).

 

With regards to the religion v fantasy thing, I have often thought that if the 'establishment' (for want of a better word - to save putting church/mosque etc) was truly confident that it's followers believed its writings and theories, that nothing could sway them in their belief, it would have no need to complain about fantasy.

 

For example, I have a partner of 4 and a half years, I know he loves me and we have a stable relationship - which is why I do not complain if he looks at another woman.

 

It strikes me that the establishment is perhaps trying to veto fantasy fiction out of fear that people will stop believing.

[aevogt]

Yeah, I've read some of the history between John Lackland and Llywelyn Fawr of Wales.  Whether any of what I read was accurate...I withhold judgement.

 

Haven't seen Zulu?  It's one of Michael Caine's earlier roles.  You know, from back in the 60' when he still acted.  It's the story of 139 Welsh soldiers and British officers defending Rourke's Drift from 2 impis of Zulu warriors (4000 men) in 1879.  Very well acted by Caine, Stanley Baker and a very hairy Nigel Green.  Not precisely historically accurate, but they did include an accurate count of the 11 men who won the Victoria Cross that day.

 

In any case, think that RJ may have seen this film.  The description Lan uses to explain Aiel Battle tactics is pretty close to what the Natal policeman uses to describe Zulu tactics to the Brit officers. 

 

If you want to get an idea what an Aiel attack would look like, see this film.

 

Even though they're wearing ox-tail kilts, the scenes of 4000 Zulu warriors rattling their (short) spears on their bullhide sheilds and chanting battle dirges, just before they charge is exactly what I imagine a charge of Stone Dogs would look like. 

 

There is a scene of a mountian side with nothing moving that suddenly sprouts Zulu warriors hiding in the grass that could have been written right into the battle for Cairhien.

[aussie_ashaman123]

One of the appeals I find in Wot is how it depicts different cultures, different societies, people and the prejudices and clichés that ensue. All the while not making it look like some are better than another or that some are Good and others just plain Evil. Being a Muslim, with the negative image and stereotypes that carries, it made me especially sensitive to that.

 

I totally agree with that Luthine, that is one of the best components of the books in my opinion. Especially when you do see the prejudices and sort of think to yourself "What a load of Bull!. With all the differences in culture, the majority of characters are relatively the same, willing to do whatever they can to do what they see is right. I love the part where the "Oathbreaker Dobraine and 200 armsmen ride into Dumais Wells, knowing they will probably die, for an oath. That was a defining moment, at least to me.

 

Haven't seen Zulu?  It's one of Michael Caine's earlier roles.  You know, from back in the 60' when he still acted.  It's the story of 139 Welsh soldiers and British officers defending Rourke's Drift from 2 impis of Zulu warriors (4000 men) in 1879.  Very well acted by Caine, Stanley Baker and a very hairy Nigel Green.  Not precisely historically accurate, but they did include an accurate count of the 11 men who won the Victoria Cross that day.

 

In any case, think that RJ may have seen this film.  The description Lan uses to explain Aiel Battle tactics is pretty close to what the Natal policeman uses to describe Zulu tactics to the Brit officers. 

 

There is a scene of a mountian side with nothing moving that suddenly sprouts Zulu warriors hiding in the grass that could have been written right into the battle for Cairhien.

 

that tactic is a historical fact, used by the zulu for hundreds of years before that battle, He may not have seen the movie, but if he based some of the Aiel on the Zulu (lets face it, a hardy warrior people who farm and herd animals in a harsh environment?) he may have come across it.

[benr]

From time to time I get challenged about fantasy, somehow some people think all fantasy is bad for you, and as a christian you should not read it?

Narnia, anyone?

 

 

It seems that most of us have read Narnia, and it is the main series many cite as a Christian influence in fantasy.  Lewis was writing to a young audience here.  He also wrote a trilogy that included "Out of The Silent Planet", "Peralandra", and "That Hideous Strength" that was directed more towards adult readers, with overt Christian themes.  I read it many years ago; I think my mind was more open to ideas then.  I should re-read it now. 

 

I continue to be amazed at the diverstiy of people in this group.  What are the chances that any of us would have crossed paths without the WOT?  Thanks, RJ!

[aevogt]

I didn't mean to imply theft or plagiarism.  I feel it's one more example of taking an idea and moving it forward, just like the references drawn from mythology.

 

I saw the movie first (of many, many times) when I was a kid and the whole thing fascinated me. 

 

It's impossible not to notice the similarity, right down to squatting down and drawing in the sand with sticks to demonstrate.

 

The similarity between the Aiel and the Zulu (with some Native American influences tossed in for good measure) is one of the things I like best about the series.

 

Watch the film.

[42Bonzo88]

    Quote

    "I continue to be amazed at the diversity of people in this group. What are the chances that any of us would have crossed paths without the WOT? Thanks, RJ!

 

    I completely agree benr, the coolest thing to me is it is not just young people, not just people of this country, religion etc. I look at all the differences and think how good of a writer to bring in all of this diversity to one common thing. Truly, amazing!

[metria31183]

This actually my first time posting here, but I've been lurker for a while.

 

I'm 25 and female.  I've been reading WoT since I was 11 or 12.  My mom got me hooked on them.  I live in Garland, Texas (a suburb of Dallas) with my fiance, his cat and my dog.  I like WoT because of RJ's use of flawed characters.  The good guys aren't perfect heroes.  They have issues man.

 

I'm also one of the five Democrats in Texas.  (For those of you across the pond, I passionately and whole-heartedly dislike President Bush and all of this idiocy in Iraq.)  I must say that I found it really funny when I came across a posting that said the Seanchan accent was a Texas accent.  I just have a hard time imagining a sul'dam saying, "Ya'll set them trees over yonder on fire, ya hear!"

[Dreadlady]

Hi! Let me introduce myself.

 

I live in Sun City, Arizona with my three cats. I'm a (currently unemployed) database designer. I've lurked around this site for years, and just started posting in the last month or two, as an antidote for driving myself crazy applying for jobs over the internet.

 

I've read the series over and over, about 30 times or more (I have collections of books that I prefer to re-read rather than looking for something new. My favorite characters are Nynaeve and Mat.

 

I love reading the entries in these forums, with input from so many people with such different views. Since I'm here, I have a few questions that I always hoped to ask RJ; maybe someone out there knows.

 

What was "the moment" that RJ talked about (I believe in his blog), that was so sad and poignant? I’ve never really been able to find one scene that stood out for me. Was it when Avienda and Mat died in Caemlyn?

 

What are firedrops? They’re not rubies or garnets, or red opals, because those all are named.

 

What is a bellfruit? I thought at first it was a pear, but they have pears and apples already.

 

[Majsju]

Dreadlady, that particular moment mentioned by RJ in his blog "happens" in KOD (it might have happened a bit earlier, but it is in KOD we hear about it.) It is the horrible consequence of something we otherwise cheered.

 

So, much more fun to give a few pointers than a straight answer ;D

[Luckers]

I don't know about firedrops or bellfruits--though it occurs to me that they might be things that were originally created by the Power.

 

And ignore Maj. He's a big meanie. Read 'To Make an Anchor Weep'. :)

[Majsju]

Big meanie...Are you calling me fat??? *glares*

[Elgee]

There there *pats Majsju* Of course you're not fat! Well, not judging by that pic you put up ... hawt  ;D

 

Anyways, about me: I seldom post here (what can I say that Luckers et all haven't already put much more eloquently? lol), but I read almost every thread.

 

I'm from South Africa (yes, RJ said that he'd based the Aiel mostly on Zulu Warriors; awesome movie, that - Henry Cele, who played Shaka Zulu, died recently btw).

 

Born youngest daughter of 5 into a Afrikaans Christian family (hereditary, not practicing) of mostly European descent (a few Indian ancesters as well). I was raised on a farm on the dry West Coast which is mostly Afrikaans speaking (that's the big bad apartheid boere/farmers) and a small village near Cape Town (mostly liberal English).

 

My parents were quite liberal, voracious readers and interested in a wide variety of topics, so I grew up reading Shakespeare, History, Philosophy, you name it.  After school I was an exchange student in Europe, then went to University to study Accountancy, but switched to Languages in my 2nd year.  Due to financial and personal reasons, I left halfway through my final year, and started to work as an Archivist in the largest Church Archives in the Southern Hemisphere.  I was never religious, but working there for 13 years gave me an even more jaundiced view of religion and the people who practice it.  Let's just say I hope there's a Creator, but I don't believe in organised religion.

 

I owned and then sold an Art Gallery, and for the past 8 years I've been a Rental Administrator (we rent out residential properties).  I have an IRL warder (bodyguard and good friend - a Nigerian guy), for those times I have to inspect properties in dodgy areas  :D

 

I started reading fantasy in my 20's, and picked up the 1st WoT somewhere around 10 or 12 years ago.  I wasn't really hooked at once, only after reading the 2nd or 3rd book. Now it's another story, of course *grins*

 

What else can I say? I'm heterosexual, not married, no children, love cricket and F1 Grand Prix, reading, rp'ing, chatting on here.

[aevogt]

??? In the '64 Zulu, King Cetshwayo kaMpande was played by Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi.

 

Being from SA, have you read an of Wilbur Smith's colonization fiction.  Not historically accurate but still a good read.  Lots of action and good characters.  I wrote a paper on "When the Lion Feeds"  when I was a young idealist in college.  There was a good Zulu character in that one.

[Elgee]

*smacks forehead*

 

Sorry, I was thinking of the TV series!

 

I've read some of Wilbur Smith's work, but many years ago - I can't recall now how factually correct he is. I usually don't read books written by foreigners about South Africa, because they usually get a lot, if not most, of their facts wrong.  NOT good for my blood presure  ::)