Bashere's suspicious decision

[aevogt]

What do you make of this?

 

While Lady Deira is being stitched up after the attack in their tent(CoT, Prologue), an attack virtually twin to the one against Dobraine in Cairhien, Bashere says to Tamud, "You know where to find the man who came to me yesterday? Find him and tell him I agree, but there will be a few more than we talked about."

 

Anyone haev any idea what is going on there?

 

I just can't believe he is a Dark Friend.  None of his POV's have even a glimmer of betrayal, until this. 

 

Unless, that is, he was buying her something pretty and her close brush with death made him decide to double the order.

 

 

 

[Majsju]

I always assumed it was Logain, since the two hook up later to go search for Rand.

[Guest leebarr]

It was either Logain or Rand he was talking about.

[Jehaine]

It isn't likely that it's Rand, or there wouldn't have been such a need for secrecy. And besides, Tumad's one of Bashere's lieutenants. I think he's expected to know who his commander is.

 

Logain would make more sense. He could gather some Asha'men loyal to him (read: not loyal to Taim) and infiltrate Bashere's army to root out the bad guys. That 'there will be a few more of them' just means he'd need more people as the enemies are more than he originally thought.

 

My two cents, anyway.

[aevogt]

It didn't occur to me but Logain has to be the answer.

[Bob T Dwarf]

No.  It's not Logain.

 

Think just a little harder.

[Nethran Thaimal]

Taim! :o!  I dunno. Why not Logain?  It makes perfect sense considering their falling in together later.

[Luckers]

Logain is the most obvious answer, and really the only one that make sense.

[Bob T Dwarf]

What's "obvious" or "makes sense" depends on which dataset you're working from.

 

 

 

 

[Majsju]

What's "obvious" or "makes sense" depends on which dataset you're working from.

 

Logain is obvious and the only one that makes sense if you go by what is in the books. And that is what counts.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Sorry, Maj, but another case where you're wrong.

 

If you go by what's "in the books" not what you imagine is in the books, there is nothing "obvious" about Logain at all.  You're simply reading too much into Bashere and his Saldaeans arriving at the Manor sort of in company with Logain, his Asha'man and Aes Sedai.

[Majsju]

Lets see, based on what is in the books...

 

Shortly after Basheres mention of this mysterious character and the mysterious agreement, we see Bashere arriving in Cairhien together with Logain, looking for Rand. Two characters who we have absolutely no reason to believe they would be buddies, or even have met open previously. We do know that it would be very easy for Logain to figure out that Bashere would be his best lead if he wants to find Rand, jst as we know Logain wants to find Rand. And we do know Logain would want to approach bashere in secret, since he does not trust Taim.

 

Facts + Logic.

[Shoulderthumper]

I am curious to know what the other option is. It is one thing to say someone is wrong, but quite another to say why and give the correct answer.

[Aemon raHal]

I always assumed it was Logain...

 

Had no reason to look any further - for me it was the logical answer with the information we had.

 

Maybe it's somebody else, but I never saw any reason to think that.

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

You should tell us your theory instead of more than hinting that you know the answer and no one else does.  That way you can either look smart, which is fun for most people, or we can all call you crazy and make fun of you.

[Farslayer]

No.  It's not Logain.

 

Think just a little harder.

 

Must you disagree with everything that is so blatently obvious to everyone else?  ::)

[icspots]

was it Bela?

[Luckers]

A new tactic Bob? Sick of everyone tearing apart your theories so you simply state it as fact and refuse to elaborate?

 

*Yawn*.

[trakand_01]

I quite agree, you havent actually contributed anything to the discussion. I don't know what your profession is, but we're not pupils in an english literature class, we're experienced readers who have all read the series before, and concluded it was Logain.

 

If you have another idea, please share it with us so that we can discuss it, as is the entire purpose of the General Discussion Group.

 

I havent got any further than the first third of book 10 so have only just read that bit. I was curious but assumed it would be clarified later. If Bashere meets up with Logain then that's good enough for me until book 12. If nothing else transpires, i'll be content to believe it was Logain. He's significant enough of a character for Bashere to refer to him as 'the man I met' and his man to understand who he means, significant enough that he might not want to say the name aloud.

[Bob T Dwarf]

First.  Where anywhere in Crosssroads of Twilight does it say that Bashere arrived in Cairhien with Logain?

 

Logain Arrived in Cairhien just after Dobraine got healed and everyone was puzzling over the authorization to search his rooms that was found on one of the corpses.  Depending on whose timeline you believe, that was either the same day Bashere's tent was ransacked, or the day after.  Given the distance between Caemlyn and Cairhien, Logain and his party obviously Traveled.  Again depending on whose timeline you believe, it was also either four or five days before the Cleansing.

 

It is unknown whether Logain understood enough about how bonds work to have deduced he could use the Warders left behind to find their AS who were with Rand or not.  In any case he got no help or cooperation from anyone in Cairhien.  Lacking any further clues as to Rand's whereabouts, he was forced to remain in Cairhien and hope that persistence eventually got him the cooperation he needed to get any further.

 

Finally, nearly two weeks later, ( approximately a week after the Cleansing ) Bashere shows up.  Having needed that much time to ride from Caemlyn to Cairhien.  He may have been the one to deduce that the Warders were the key to finding Rand.  It is then that the two parties agree to cooperate.  Bashere can get the Warders released, and Logain and his channelers can create the Gateways that Bashere needs.  From there, in the space of a day or less they triangulate on Rand's position, and finally arrive.  Two mutually distrustful groups forced by a mutual need to travel together.

 

Bashere's rather mysterious decision on the day his wife is injured relates to something else entirely.

[aevogt]

And that would be...what exactly?

 

 

[Luckers]

Firstly, I am confused. Where is there any evidence in there of anything you suggest? You say that Bashere's decision had nothing to do with Logain...? Why? Logain left to seek Rand the morning before Deira was attacked by someone seeking Bashere's Seal. Bashere, after that--directly after that, and as a result of it--agrees to assist someone in something. Two men, seeking Rand at the same time, and you suggest that Bashere in seeking Rand was speaking to some other person? Why? The onus is on you here buddy. Your earlier comments demand that.

 

No, champ. Logain was seeking Rand, and his first stop would have been Bashere. Bashere was Rand's right hand man, and the closest link the Black Tower had to Rand--he was training the men gathered by the Black Tower who couldn't channel in the Legion of the Dragon. Of course Bashere was his first stop--everyone knew Rand wasn't in Cairhein, and besides, no one in Cairhein stood as close to Rand as Bashere. Logain certainly didn't know of the Aes Sedai with Rand or that their warders remained in Cairhein.

 

Logain approached Bashere, Bashere was resistant, there was an attempt to steal the Seal, Bashere needed to find Rand and so agreed to go with Logain.

 

Seriously dude... you stated as a fact that the above scenario was wrong, so its on you now. Where is the evidence against it? Where do you have Bashere riding into Cairhein two week later and meeting with Logain? Where, in fact, is support for anything you've said?

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm gonna let this one simmer for awhile longer.

 

It isn't difficult to work out.  Everybody here can do it as well.  IF they truly think about the entire situation rather than just settle for the first convenient conclusion that suggests itself.

 

Besides, everybody learns more when they think it through for themselves.

[Luckers]

So in other words, victory is ours.

 

Excellent.

[Majsju]

My bad about them arriving together, I mixed that up with something completely different.

 

Still, that was the least important part of why it is Logain.

 

It isn't difficult to work out.  Everybody here can do it as well.  IF they truly think about the entire situation rather than just settle for the first convenient conclusion that suggests itself.

 

Ie, you have not yet invented any theory for this one. Well, have fun with that.