Will Rand ACTUALLY die on the slopes of Shayol Ghul?

[Rahela Sedai]

I'm not sure if I've missed something or just hopeful but I've got this weird feeling that Rand won't die at the end of the series. Yes yes the Prophecies say that his blood must be shed on the slopes of Shayol Ghul to save the world, but it seems to me like everyone just assumes that means he's going to die. It never mentions how much blood shall be shed, for all we know it could be just a drop. I don't think I've ever read somewhere where the Prophecies definitively say he's going to die.

Min's viewings say that she saw 3 women at his funeral bier, but says nothing about if they are young or old. Her viewings also say that Aviendha is supposed to have four kids with Rand I think? Unless she's giving birth to quadruplets I think she better get a move on with that, seeing as how the last battle is just around the corner and we've had no hints that she's pregnant yet. Unless of course AMoL just jumps ahead a couple years.

My last point is that while RJ is fond of killing off minor characters I just don't know if he'd actually do it to THE main character of the series.

Plus I really don't want Rand to die, I know its sentimental but happy endings are the best endings.

Anyone else agree with me?

[aevogt]

Min's viewing "Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."

 

Does seem to say it will be Quads, unless it's a trick of some kind.

[Bob T Dwarf]

In another thread, somebody mentioned the Three at a Bier prophecy/viewing.  There's also the Three in a Boat while a scale tips first one way and then the other, one as well.

 

I think it may be possible that the series will end without it being clear whether Rand is alive or dead.

 

Then the, "He's dead!", "No, he isn't!", and "He died!", "No, he didn't!", wars can begin to rage.

 

Jordan probably would have seen that as quite funny.  Remember, he wrote for his own entertainment moreso than for ours.

[Rahela Sedai]

As for Aviendha having Quads, is that even possible in Randland? Yeah they have Aes Sedai, but we have all our technology and it's still pretty risky.

Though I don't think she's shown signs of pregnancy yet, so when is that gonna happen?

[Dashiva]

When Min sees it and she understands it, it ALWAYS happens. Yes, Aviendha will have quadruplets. As for when who knows, but if Rand does die they need to start getting down in AMOL.

[Auld Manriva]

There were quadruplets long before technology.... Hell today there are flamin litters right and left. I don't think he croaks. Would be a shame with all he's trying to get started. I think he has to live so there can be the start of another Age of Legends...

[Guest Dreadlord]

Well, Ive been thinking that "Die and live again" will end up being something dissapointing like Rand dying but his NAME living on. Id be gutted though. But there is Nicolas Foretelling, "Three in the boat, and HE WHO IS DEAD YET LIVES." So I wonder how it will turn out

[Majsju]

I certainly hope he dies, and stays dead.

[trakand_01]

I agree with Majsju and it's not because i dont like Rand, indeed he's my favourite character. In fact he's the best character i've ever read but I just dont think I would be happy for him to live, i would always be wanting another book and we all know that will never come.

 

There will never be a 'is he dead is he not' debate however because Alanna, Egwene, Aviendha and Min will be able to quell any doubts.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I certainly hope he dies but somehow is still alive, there has been too many things that suggest he will be alive that I will be way dissapointed if he isnt.

 

"Three in the boat, and he who is dead yet lives."

 

"To live you must die."

 

"Twice dawns the day his blood is spilled. Once for mourning, once for birth."

 

Those three things tell me he will be alive. But, in contradiction, there is RJs comment "He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything and like the wind was gone." Apparantly he said that many times to Harriet, referring to Rand. So I don't know 100% which to believe, but as far as evidence from the books goes he will somehow be alive after dying.

[Bob T Dwarf]

There will never be a 'is he dead is he not' debate however because Alanna, Egwene, Aviendha and Min will be able to quell any doubts.

 

You're assuming we ever get a PoV from any of them that answers the question for us.

 

I'm guessing we never get that confirmation of life or death.

 

 

( pssst - It'd be Elayne, not Egwene )

 

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Also, if Rand dies then the bonds will all be severed. If Rand then somehow is alive again, I cant see any way that those bonds will suddenly pop back into place.

[trakand_01]

There will never be a 'is he dead is he not' debate however because Alanna, Egwene, Aviendha and Min will be able to quell any doubts.

 

You're assuming we ever get a PoV from any of them that answers the question for us.

 

I'm guessing we never get that confirmation of life or death.

 

 

( pssst - It'd be Elayne, not Egwene )

 

 

 

 

Nope, I've come to the conclusion that Elayne will never die. She's the Cher of the 3rd Age. I'm pretty sure at some point in the future she'll pop up again, just when everyone thinks she's dead.

 

I think though, that we can quite logically believe that at least SOME of the women bonded to Rand will be at TG, or involved in the Last Battle / the 'main' chapter of aMoL in some capacity, and it's highly unlikely that all 4 will be completely and utterly alone at the precise moment that Rand does or doesn't die. If he DOES die, the bond breaking in all of them at the same time will be very obvious to everyone around them, even if the onlookers don't know what they're watching.

 

What Ajah is Alanna?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Green.  She has two other Warders besides Rand.

[trakand_01]

So, depending how far you think a bondee can draw strength from his bonders, technically Rand has 7 'batteries' to draw on...

 

Let me explain.

 

Rand can draw strength from

Alanna

Min

Elayne

Aviendha

 

In addition, as he's drawing from Alanna and Elayne, they in turn can draw on Alanna's Warders and Birgitte...

 

If it works like this, and I appreciate i'm simplifying it significantly, surely Rand could take quite a lot of fire and exertion before he falls? We also know that he's significantly fit and athletic of his own accord.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Given what happens to him at the end of KoD, and how fast he gets back on his feet, he's obviously drawing a LOT of strength from somewhere.

[Auld Manriva]

Rand can die and live again easily... There are two persons walking about in that carcass. For instance

 

Lews actually does take over at TG. Kicks some DO hinney. Then Alivia somehow helps or causes LTT to die or go away for another 3,or 4000 years or so and Rand takes back his body. This happens in a rowboat the girls find out on the lake formed when The Pit of Doom is turned back into a posh resort. Avienda gets so outta hand the other two have to double stooge slap her upside the head and the retort from that double battering wakes Rand who's been in a stupor and is groggy and thinks he's hit someone so hard its knocked his hand off and falls back into a morose melancholy that BS has to take a further two chapters to finally break him out to the jolly young man we all knew and loved. That way he can go frolic in the spring buck nekkid with his three wives...... Dirty Polygamist Bastige

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

The "is dead and yet lives" thing could have many meanings, but I think there are 2 solid explanations.

 

1) Rand dies and is brought back by the creator

 

2) Rand dies but is bound to the horn and will be reborn when the next dragon is needed

 

These are simple and sort of obvious, but they make a lot of sense.  I lean towards 1 because I think that there has been foreshadowing of Rand's eventual retirement.  2 is not as good because it is what everyone in the books thinks will happen, and if they are correct it won't be as fun.

 

A more remote possibility that I have considered is that Rand is physically killed, but the numerous unconventional bonds that tie him to other characters keep his spirit alive (Perrin might have something to do with this also).  Then they find a new host body, invent some risky new weaves to seal his spirit in it, and Rand lives again.

 

It is also possible that RJ/BS will intentionally make it unclear.

[skalors3]

I have always had two theories regarding Rand and TG.  The first is that he will die from the wounds in his side, and Taim will pick up the little Sa'Angreal and Balefire some forsaken.  Using that much power, it will be strong enough to wipe out Ishmael and Fain far enough back where Rand no longer has his wounds.  Thus resulting in his returning to life.

 

My second theory, which I must admit is more likely, is that the prophecies refer to Rands death as the time of mourning, and that he will be spun back out of the wheel when Elayne gives birth to his child, which ultimately would be him.  Of course, it must be the same day.

 

"Twice dawns the day his blood is spilled. Once for mourning, once for birth."

 

His blood will be spilled twice in that circumstance.  The Lord of the Morning dawns twice in one day.

[Myndrunner]

Twice the Dragon will die, not twice Rand, right?  Maybe Lews Therin dies at TG not Rand?  Maybe Rand will become a voice in someone else's head. 

 

Either way, I got the popcorn popped, Cherry Coke on ice,.....ringside ticket to TG in hand.....

....I SAY BRING IT!

[Bob T Dwarf]

Eat that popcorn.  Drink that Cherry Coke.

 

They gonna get awfully stale and flat waiting for AMoL to be published.

 

You could bake more cake while you wait.  I heard a rumor we were running low.

 

And, if there's no cake... it's death for all of us.

[Luckers]

So, depending how far you think a bondee can draw strength from his bonders, technically Rand has 7 'batteries' to draw on...

 

Let me explain.

 

Rand can draw strength from

Alanna

Min

Elayne

Aviendha

 

In addition, as he's drawing from Alanna and Elayne, they in turn can draw on Alanna's Warders and Birgitte...

 

If it works like this, and I appreciate i'm simplifying it significantly, surely Rand could take quite a lot of fire and exertion before he falls? We also know that he's significantly fit and athletic of his own accord.

 

Again, Trakand, a bondee cannot draw strength. Rand cannot draw strength from Alanna, Elayne, Min of Aviendha. The bond holder can draw strength, but the bondee cannot, and in all situations of Rand's bonds he is the bondee, not the bond holder.

 

As fo his actual death on the slopes of shayol Ghoul, frankly i concider that to be one of the most obscure of the death prophecies--if indeed it even refers to his death. Blood could mean a wound, or the deaths of people related to him, or the deaths of Aiel or Andorman.

 

I believe in the bodyswap, and i have no problem with Moridin-in-Rands-body dying at Shayol Ghoul, but i dont think we have enough to really figure that part of it out.

[Bob T Dwarf]

You're trying to split hairs again.

 

Strength is inherent capacity to manifest energy, to endure, and to resist.

Vitality is a capacity for survival or for the continuation of a meaningful or purposeful existence.

 

Synonyms.  Both describe pretty accurately the benefits a Warder is supposed to receive from the bond.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Another thing. Rand was bonded to the women as Warder, not the other way round. So, he gets all the fast healing and stuff, it is the women who can draw strength from him-not the other way round. And if an Ashaman/male channeler bonded someone there isn't much reason to believe they would get the same benefits as Saidin and Saidar are different. Take the Aes Sedai who were bonded by Ashaman as an example-their bond acts almost like an Oath Rod in that they must do what the Ashaman they are bonded to commands. Its as if Compulsion has been added to the bond.

[Majsju]

Take the Aes Sedai who were bonded by Ashaman as an example-their bond acts almost like an Oath Rod in that they must do what the Ashaman they are bonded to commands. Its as if Compulsion has been added to the bond.

 

The "Compulsion" is something added, it is not a natural part of the bond.