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Ny's behavior change


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       I dont know if this thread was ever done but here goes.

 

        Ny's behavior seems to change after she got married. whenever Lan is around she starts acting weird. she cant be obnoxious or loose her temper. It could be the sea folk marrige but i liker to think OPTION #1 is right. Lan the abusive husband. you just cant unlearn certain things. ;D

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Nynaeve is now part of something bigger than herself. Before, she was the center of her universe. Now, Lan and her marriage are the center. Look at it like a first love, which technically, it is for Nyn. Before, she never thought before she acted or spoke, now she does. That is because she is thinking of the effects of her actions and words on others, namely Lan, but also Rand to a lesser degree.

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Do you understand the Sea Folk marriage ceremony?

 

Lan's not abusive, not at all. But since one has absolute public command, and one absolute private, image conscious Nynaeve took public. She can ride him in public all she wants- but in private, it's not that she'll pay for it, but she has to be submissive, as submissive as he in public. Submissive is completely new to Nynaeve.

 

Considering that Lan's rather experienced, I imagine that's made it to the bedroom, explaining some of her startlement.

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Do you understand the Sea Folk marriage ceremony?

 

Lan's not abusive, not at all. But since one has absolute public command, and one absolute private, image conscious Nynaeve took public. She can ride him in public all she wants- but in private, it's not that she'll pay for it, but she has to be submissive, as submissive as he in public. Submissive is completely new to Nynaeve.

 

Considering that Lan's rather experienced, I imagine that's made it to the bedroom, explaining some of her startlement.

 

It's not actually her choice. Sea Folk custom dictates merely that whoever is lower ranked has the authority in private. Nynaeve, as Aes Sedai to Warder, holds the higher public ranking, so by custom it would immediately sort itself out that way. Amongst the Sea Folk it can even change, if one is raised higher than the other then the private power balance would switch too.

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IMOP Nyvs change comes from her realization of the changes in the world. Tarmon Gaiden is coming and she needed to become more of a leader, instead of a pushy *****. She had to change with the times. Being a wisdom afforded her power, now as Aes Sedai she has the people of the world looking to her for guidance. She just had to grow up. Yeah that sounds like it fits best.

 

 

SHE GREW UP!

THE CREATOR BE PRAISED!

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I saw it as her taking her marriage vows and marriage very seriously, thus planning to follow those vows "to the letter" (when she is able).  I don't think she expected the vows she was going to have to take by being married by the Sea Folk, but regardless, she is going to do what she promised to do. 

 

 

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I still take it as her trying and not knowing how to function like a cordial human being but trying to learn. I think out of all the girls from the beginning she has grown and changed the most, but I still don't like her, she's still not where a decent considerate human being should be IMO.

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well it really is about maturity too.  Nyneave could browbeat people into doing whatever she wanted, but she's learning how to actually LEAD people into doing what is best for a situation. 

 

Comments from different people like Cadsuane who says "the girl has good material in her but her lessons had been cut short" and Elayne's "if she had anything to do with it Nyneave would be Advisor to the Queen of Andor, she had an excellent eye for politics" give us hints into the idea that Nyneave is going to be an excellent Aes Sedai when she really matures.

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I think the change in her is, as mentioned, the Seafolk wedding rituals and rules - Nynaeve is 'leader' in public, but knows that if she is harsh with Lan in public, he will be 'harsh' with her in private. Also i think she cares very much what he thinks, and is likely very aware that he was Moiraine's Warder for all those years - Moiraine who was the epitome of serenity, Nynaeve's polar opposite.

 

On Lan's part, I think he finds it all vaguely amusing.

 

I think you have to understand Nynaeve, and her past, in order to understand why she behaves like she does. We have no family history for her, she seems to have sprouted up under a bush somewhere, and suddenly become Wisdom of Emonds Field. As said Wisdom, she had to contend with the Women's Circle, which comprised of women around 15 or 20 years her senior, but whom she had to ride roughshod over sometimes. That takes attitude, and confidence. Add to that her youthful appearance (she had already started to slow) and you get a less-than-respectful response from women old enough to be your mother.

 

I dont think Nynaeve naturally has either confidence, or attitude. I think she was naturally good with herbs and the weather, and found herself in the position of Wisdom, and the attitude was a coping mechanism. She couldnt speak for experience with these women, they had the years on her, but she could stare them down and yank her braid.

 

I also imagine that her block may have caused her trouble. She didnt know she could channel, but I imagine she may have felt, from time to time, like something was wrong. Like something should be happening, but it wasnt, because of the block.

 

On top of all of that, she is kind of lost, at present. She followed Lan/Moiraine et al to bring back the boys (and Egwene), to help them, mother them and protect them, and instead has found herself kind of... floating around. Not wanting to admit that she wanted to be Aes Sedai, but not being able to bring herself to go home, wherever 'home' may be.

 

I think Lan gave her a fresh start. She had her Warder, she was Aes Sedai, and she intended to make sure she behaved properly.

 

She had finally found her 'place'.

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I think you have to understand Nynaeve, and her past, in order to understand why she behaves like she does. We have no family history for her, she seems to have sprouted up under a bush somewhere, and suddenly become Wisdom of Emonds Field. As said Wisdom, she had to contend with the Women's Circle, which comprised of women around 15 or 20 years her senior, but whom she had to ride roughshod over sometimes. That takes attitude, and confidence. Add to that her youthful appearance (she had already started to slow) and you get a less-than-respectful response from women old enough to be your mother.

 

I dont think Nynaeve naturally has either confidence, or attitude. I think she was naturally good with herbs and the weather, and found herself in the position of Wisdom, and the attitude was a coping mechanism. She couldnt speak for experience with these women, they had the years on her, but she could stare them down and yank her braid.

 

I also imagine that her block may have caused her trouble. She didnt know she could channel, but I imagine she may have felt, from time to time, like something was wrong. Like something should be happening, but it wasnt, because of the block.

 

On top of all of that, she is kind of lost, at present. She followed Lan/Moiraine et al to bring back the boys (and Egwene), to help them, mother them and protect them, and instead has found herself kind of... floating around. Not wanting to admit that she wanted to be Aes Sedai, but not being able to bring herself to go home, wherever 'home' may be.

 

I think Lan gave her a fresh start. She had her Warder, she was Aes Sedai, and she intended to make sure she behaved properly.

 

She had finally found her 'place'.

 

I mostly agree with "trakand".    Nynaeve is a very conflicted character that has had many external factors pushing her personality.

 

As the Two Rivers Wisdom, she had to fight to get the respect that would have normally come to that position - because most people saw her as being "to young" for the position.    Even though, in actuality she was much older that people assumed.

 

Then when she becomes AS she finds that she can only channel when she is angry, with Forsaken and others as a constant threat she "Has To" push herself to be angry all the time to be ready.    Hence the braid pulling and the constant attitude problem.  Always thinking in the "negative" will do that to you, and it was necessary for her at the time.

 

Now she has both comquered her block and gotten married.  So her former "attitude" that had developed into a habbit is both no longer needed and also it is a detriment to her marriage and normal functioning as an AS as well as a person.  So she is trying hard to purge herself of that habbit.  It is not easy but she knows that it has to be done.

 

Add to that the Sea Folk marriage customs and her job of keeping Lan alive and being a newlywed.

 

Well, let's just suffice it to say - Nynaeve has ALWAYS had a lot on her soulders.

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I have always thought as well that the braid was symbolic. In Emond's field, women braid their hair as soon as they are deemed old enough to marry. Nynaeve had been old enough, and had her hair braided for quite a while! I wonder often if the 'tugging at her braid' was something that she used to do alone, for example

 

"I've got this bloody thing, but i'm not married"

 

Which upset and angered her, and turned into a habit whenever she was angry.

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Hmm... I personally believe tugging her braid was something she did to draw attention to it. That she was a grown woman, and wanted to be treated as such. With her going up against the Woman's Circle in Emond's Field (which isn't the best place to start with) i can see how that became a habit of hers.

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Agree with Jehaine.

 

Also, we do have a family history for Nynaeve, from Eye of the World.

 

Her mother died when she was young, leaving her and her manly-man father alone. Her father seems to have been a Jondyn Barran-type; all he knew was hunting and similar manly skills.

 

Nynaeve cannot cook, cannot sew, etc.- she is unskilled in the "traditional" feminine graces.

 

What she excelled at were the skills her father taught her- to the point of impressing Lan with her little-used skills- and the skills her surrogate mother, the Wisdom, taught her, being Wisdom.

 

She managed to achieve a position of status despite her youth, but with her insecurities, the fact she "slowed" was an issue.

 

Moiraine made her feel inferior all around, I think- Moiraine was certainly feminine.

 

It is also what drew Lan to her, I think- Lan has been involved with feminine ladies in the past, and a fiery warrior-woman is different enough to keep him interested and even make him laugh (if anyone's an adrenaline junkie in the series, it's probably Lan, it would have kept him alive in the Blight).

 

But yes, we do have her family history. It's short and rather sad, but does explain her character quite well.

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    This might be way off the subject and correct me if you don't see the resemblance, but at one point in the books (if you have the reference I would appreciate it) Aviendah calls down Elayne and I think either Nyn or Egwene from the way they treat Mat Cauthon. Saying that the girls owe Mat toh for going to save them in TDR and other times.

 

    It kind of reminds me of the change in Nyn too. I agree with most everyone's opinions. I think that Nyn needed to change because she was floating as a character and now she has purpose and needs somehow to make up for her behavior in the past. Cadusane will and has helped her in that respect.

 

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I personally think all the women need a huge attitute adjustment...well maybe not all but definitely most! The men in the book seem to have a healthy respect for women, though they must learn it. Thom, the theif-catcher from Tear, Lan...well all the Shienarians for that matter - they may not respect what a woman can do, or think that a woman can be just as deadly as a man at first, but they tend to learn quickly. Some times the warders are treated with respect, but most of the time the women go about insulting the men, half the time to their faces, right after a man does something pretty darn brave and great cost to him to help one of these arrogant...gotta censor myself here...

 

Aviendha, and probably a good handful of the Aiel wise ones are not like that. The sea folk channelers are down right repulsive to outsiders, but they seem to be good to their men (though my brain is a little fuzzy on a lot of their interaction with themselves since it's been so long since I read). Whatever got into Nyneave I hope the rest it strikes the rest of them too.

 

Yeah and all this is coming from a woman. Girls are so dumb.

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Being a smart-ass, the first thing that came to mind was "of course she's calmed down, she finally got some." That sounds coarse but I knew a fellow in college who was much calmer once he finally got a girlfriend and lost his virginity. In his case, he had low self-esteem and was kind of dorky looking and I think the change came because he finally felt attractive and desirable. Someone finally loved him and wanted him as a man instead of as a friend or a family member.

 

As one of you mentioned, Nynaeve's mother died early and she was raised by a macho father, learning manly arts instead of womanly arts so she was never one of the girls growing up. Never told secrets and practiced kissing on pillows at slumber parties. Never dated, assuming they date in Emon's Field. She baby sat Rand and the other younger children growing up so she was in a motherly position to many other young people.

 

Early in her life, she became the Wisdom or the Wisdom's apprentice so everyone her own age or younger still sees her as an authority figure instead of one of them. A young priest I used to know told me how much pressure is put on clergy, how isolated they feel and how many he suspected were alcoholics as a result. Like being a priest, being Wisdom must be a terribly isolating position psychologically and emotionally. Because of her position in her society, she is even less part of the group than she had been.

 

People older than her still tend to see her as a child because she looks so young. Not only is she still not the Wisdom to them, she's still not a woman. That's infantilizing and demeaning, even though they don't mean it in that way. Aes Sedai continue both themes by both reducing her from Wisdom to a mere accepted, thus infantilizing her, and cutting her out of the group by designating her a "wilder", thus continuing her differentness.

 

Lan accepts her as she is and treats her neither as a child nor as a sterile authority figure. He neither looks up to her nor down on her but directly at her. He's the first person in Randland truly to treat her as a woman rather than a girl or an office. Her marriage and her initiation into adult sexuality is part of that--becoming the potential mother instead of the untouched maiden or the sexless crone. Like my friend in college, she finally got a [boy]friend and got some.

 

Anyway, that was my smart-ass answer. I also have a non-smart-ass answer based on her nearly drowning and learning to surrender instead of constantly fighting for control and domination. Maybe I'll write it later. Right now I need to see about dinner.

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brooke I think the women in this book need an attitude adjustment and quick!!!! but I would attribute this to the fact that the book was written by a guy as opposed to a girl. If someone risked life and limb for me I would definitely thank him. its a guys perspective on a girl that colors this book. that’s why  you see everyone likes the guys but no one likes the girls. I doubt the entire male population think girls are annoying!

I also have a problem with Nys rash decision on whom to marry them (perform the ceremony) . she is very steadfast – what came over her?

 

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