Demandred is ...?

[bRANDan]

Who is Demandred? We know from RJ that we haven't met him yet, but that doesn't mean we've not heard of him or who he is posing as though. Someone posted awhile ago that they thought that King Roedran of Murandy is actually Demandred, I would have to agree. Demandred is, I think, the biggest wildcard when it comes to AMoL, where he is and what he's up to we don't know. I think Murandy would be a good place for him to be though, for these reasons:

 

1) It's only recently been unified.

2) Due to Murandy's position if Demandred was in charge there it would explain the "an invisible man with a knife to his(Rand's) throat" dream of Egwene's. At the Cleansing he says he is not used to fighting as he was a general or some such, Murandy has largely been ignored by all parties of Randland and therefore would be ripe for the picking by Demandred. If he tricks the people into following him(as Roedran), he could possibly control an extremely large army which could strike in any number of directions and do great damage in any one of those directions.

3) Murandy will be the only country in Randland that Rand has not actually had to deal with yet, besides the Borderlands, but the rulers of those nations are actively seeking him. While Reodran has been content to sit quietly and be ignored even though he is surrounded by potential invaders, Rand, Seanchan, Borderlanders, the other various armies that have used Murandy as a route.

4) Having the BT that close to Murandy would provide Demandred with both the ability to watch Taim's back in the BT and for Taim to watch Demandred's back in Murandy, you know, the "strength in numbers" thing.

5) This last reason is just my opinion, but Murandy might be where the opening blows of TG are struck.

              1-Perrin will be heading north, as the Asha'man are tired from the battle and Masema won't Travel,      towards Murandy.

              2-Mat and Galad are both already heading out of Altara towards Murandy.

              3-The Borderlanders are heading to Murandy.

              4-Rand and Tuon have yet to meet, seems likely they will both pick a country to meet in that has thus far been neutral, Murandy is the pefect place for them to meet.

  And, if Demandred is Roedran, it would end up being a spectacular opening to both AMoL and TG.

 

Any thoughts/theories.

[Andrew the Great]

I hadn't thought of that before, but it does make quite a bit of sense. I can't see any potential problems right off the bat, though. Very nice summary

[Guest Dreadlord]

What about Ghealdan?

[trakand_01]

I would go for Alsalam of Arad Doman. Rodel Ituralde states that he has no idea where he is, and the orders which are being sent to him from Alsalam are completely out of character almost as though Alsalam had been usurped and someone else was using his name.

 

The orders are contradictory and seem intended to do nothing else but cause chaos. Orders like "go to this place and fight these people" but when they get there there is no-one to be seen, or they head towards a known gathering, only to be told to turn around, go somewhere else where they know there are no enemies.

[Angel of Death]

Id like to know if maybe we HAVE met him. Have any books been released since that statement? I have no idea when he said that.

[Mr Ares]

I would go for Alsalam of Arad Doman. Rodel Ituralde states that he has no idea where he is, and the orders which are being sent to him from Alsalam are completely out of character almost as though Alsalam had been usurped and someone else was using his name.

Wrong Chosen. Graendal is in Arad Doman.

 

As to this theory, one thing that I would like about Demandred having a hand in things in Murandy (posing as Roedran or not) is that Murandy was unified as a result of Roedran taking advantage of the presence of the Band - the Light unifying a country for the Shadow sounds like a decent plot twist to me. However, I see no reason to believe that Demandred is Roedran, but what we know of Demandred's methodology indicates a preference for using proxies. Roedran as proxy for Demandred (knowingly or otherwise) makes about as much sense, and doesn't tie Demandred down in the same way that actually being Roedran would.

[Luckers]

I both agree and don't agree. Personally i feel that yes Demandred is massively involved in Murandy--indeed, Murandy due to its ongoing internal conflicts represents, as a unified whole, one of the most battle-tested nations in the world short of the Borderlands. Beyond that by all accounts Murandy is much more densly populated than other nations. These are things i suspect would appeal to Demandred.

 

But i dont think he is actually Roedan. Demandred is renouned for using lackeys, and i think Murandy will ultimately be only one of his points of interest--just like he is involved in the Black Tower. I suspect Demandred is organising the military forces in much the same way Cyndane and Moghedian are organising the Darkfriends. I suspect that will involve Darkfriend channelers, such as recruited by Ishamael over the last 20 years, and also turned channelers... but meh, thats all guesswork.

 

I would go for Alsalam of Arad Doman. Rodel Ituralde states that he has no idea where he is, and the orders which are being sent to him from Alsalam are completely out of character almost as though Alsalam had been usurped and someone else was using his name.

 

The orders are contradictory and seem intended to do nothing else but cause chaos. Orders like "go to this place and fight these people" but when they get there there is no-one to be seen, or they head towards a known gathering, only to be told to turn around, go somewhere else where they know there are no enemies.

 

Amalasm is under Graendal's control--it is she that is issueing orders in his name.

[Guest Dreadlord]

RJ confirmed we havent seen Demandreds alter ego just before book 10 was published, so we have two books where Demandred could be about.

 

Question-which book did Noal turn up in?

[Mr Ares]

Question-which book did Noal turn up in?

Mat meets him in WH. The readers see an old man in ACOS that may be Noal, although he is unnamed. Either way, too early.

[trakand_01]

Noal turned up at the end of Book 9, in the same chapter that Mat met Tuon for the first time.

 

He fought a Gholam on his way back from the Wandering Woman, and Noal came up behind Mat, scaring the Gholam away. Mat fell in the mud, and went to see Tylin covered in mud. When he got there, Tuon, Suroth and Anath were visiting Tylin. Mat took Noal and gave him a bed in the Palace with his men.

 

Noal is Jain Farstrider, besides.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I knew Noal is Jain, but what puzzles me is the fact that Noal scared the Gholam off. How did he do that? And does he work for Demandred as well? That being said, at one point Mat asks if Noal is related to Jain and he said he a cousin, and then Noal gets angry about Jain having "let himself become a tool of..." and then storms off. My guess is he was going to say Ishamael, before he remembered who he was talking to.

[icspots]

I knew Noal is Jain, but what puzzles me is the fact that Noal scared the Gholam off. How did he do that?

 

He ran into the alley yelling as if he was ordering a bunch of other people with him.  One of the Gholam's orders was to avoid lots of notice (or something like that) so it fled even though it wasn't in much danger from a group of men..... just Mat's medallion.

[Davian93]

Demandred is Demandred.  He doesn't have to have an alternate identity if he's not trying to run a nation like the others.  Demandred has been working on orders from the DO since at least the beginning of LoC.  He has no reason to be hiding as a King somewhere...in fact it would actually tie him down when he really doesn't need to be tied down with a nation to even quasi-run.

[bRANDan]

I can see Reodran as one of Demandred's proxies, but I still think that Murandy will prove to be Demandred's "lair". I cannot see Demandred using Compulsion the way some of the other Chosen do, instead I think he'd merely win over people's loyalty by proving his usefulness, after all he would have been the most accomplished man of the age if not for LTT. That being said if he is not Reodran than I would think that he is someone close to Reodran like an advisor or his general. One thing that I always thought that pointed to Demandred's prescence in Murandy was the fact that Reodran had that book of war by Comadrin when Mat isn't even sure if the book stll exists in print. Mat could be wrong though, but it is also stated in the book that the unification of Murandy's forces seems very unlike Reodran. Though Roedran could just have gotten worried about the armies encroaching on him and decided to start reading some books on war to be best prepared if Murandy was attacked, though I highly doubt that. It seems more likely to me that Demandred made his appearance in Murandy and began work on Roedran, unifying the army was a way to win over either Roedran or the populace. Some of you may say that it is just as likely or more likely for Reodran to know about the book rather than Demandred, I do not think so Roedran is more likely to own a copy in the Palace Library (which I am assuming Murandy has), but not know of its military value. Demandred could have gotten the knowledge of the book anywhere (ie-Comadrin could have fought the Shadow in the Trolloc wars, and the shadow, more specifically Ishameal, surely would have remembered or taken note of such a general as Comadrin), but of the two of them he seems more likely to be the one to seek out that kind of knowledge. Also being in the geological position Murandy is in, allows Demandred to use several military tactics to his advantage, namely "keeping your enemies close, thats when the knife goes in quickest" and "divide and conquer".

 

As for Demandred not having an alter-ego, I think he does.

RJ confirmed we havent seen Demandreds alter ego just before book 10 was published, so we have two books where Demandred could be about.

I have read RJ's actual quote somewhere and it seems to imply that Demandred has an alterego we just haven't seen him yet, as of book ten anyway. And Demandred would need an alter-ego because Rand would recognise Demandred on sight and if you'll recall one of Demandred's responsibilities was to keep an eye on Rand, so even if Demandred used a proxy to watch Rand he would need to assume a Mist of Mirrors/identity that was already established instead of being someone different evey time.

 

One question I just came up with though is does anybody know or have a list of all the characters that were newly introduced in books 10 & 11?

[Davian93]

One question I just came up with though is does anybody know or have a list of all the characters that were newly introduced in books 10 & 11?

 

I believe that the Encylopedia WoT has a breakdown of characters by books...its been a while since I've looked at it and the firewall at my work prevents me from accessing it right now to confirm though.

[balefireruinssteaks]

Obviously Demandred is Tuon...he's had a crush on Mat since day one I think, and when his damane Fortold that he would marry Mat he decided to stay with the disguise.

 

D'uh!!! 

 

hehe

 

[Luckers]

That would fit well with my Lews Therin the Lord of Rainbows and his brief dailliance with Demandred theory. It's long and complicated but it comes down to the idea that pot caused the War of the Shadow.

 

Still think weed is fun?!?!?!?!

[balefireruinssteaks]

people just don't understand the result of drugs...seriously!!!

 

I mean it's like when parents leave their cabinets unlocked and their children throw a party and start playing with their ter'angreal.  Nothing good can come of that!!!

[Luckers]

Well, maybe one time. You can read about it in the epilogue of aMoL... entitled how Billy Joe and Mr Scruggles saved the world from the Dark One.

 

Guess which of the two was the ter'angreal. I think you'll be surprised.

[Majsju]

Luckers, you need to read more careful. It was not weed in itself that caused the war, it was lack of weed. The DO was planning a huge party with his best buddies, and started to buy all available weed in Randland. Eventually he had gathered all that was available, which of course sent the rest of the world to the brink of despair.

 

As a wise person once said, "Don't bogart that joint, my friend"

[balefireruinssteaks]

As the NRA would say..."The One Power doesn't kill people...PEOPLE kill people"

 

"but I think the One Power helps...you don't see many people dying from someone just yelling 'FIREBALL!!! FIREBALL!!!' you know?"  as Eddie Izzard would say.

[Luckers]

Luckers, you need to read more careful. It was not weed in itself that caused the war, it was lack of weed. The DO was planning a huge party with his best buddies, and started to buy all available weed in Randland. Eventually he had gathered all that was available, which of course sent the rest of the world to the brink of despair.

 

As a wise person once said, "Don't bogart that joint, my friend"

 

So what you are saying is that the Dark One is the worlds biggest rastafarian? "Shai'tain... the name that cannot be uttered, because, like... dude, where am I?"

[trakand_01]

Haha, funny.

 

Back to the Demandred issue though, very few of the other Forsaken's aliases have come as a massive surprise. We've wondered 'where are they' for a long time but when we finally meet the characters, we know. For example Anath. Hmmmm... wonder where Semirhage is??!

 

For Demandred though, he is the second (for me) largest conundrum in the books. (One obviously being Asmodean but lets not get into that here). I think that was intentional. We know of him, we know the DO gave him suggestions of Nae'blis (although we know Moridin has taken this role at present), we know he is obviously of some authority with the other Forsaken, and he all but chairs most of the meetings between himself, Graendal, Mesaana and Sammael before Mashadar gulped him down.

 

RJ had to know that as much as we were screaming "WHO KILLED ASMODEAN??" we were going to sleep thinking 'Where is Demandred?!'.

 

I hope beyond hope that he is a massive surprise. I dont want him to be Roedran, its too obvious. I want Demandred to turn out to be someone that we wouldnt even have listed on our 'Top 10 likely Demandred' characters, a real wildcard.

 

Although considering we havent met him yet, I dont know who this could be.