Something Semirhage Said

[xander]

I think that Rand is irrational for a reason and it goes all the way back to book one before he knew he could channel. 

 

He does not like the OP.  He thinks that the Dragon and the DO are pretty much one and the same early on.  All his life he has heard that the Aes Sedai broke the world and that the do everything for their own reasons and there is always a price to be paid for their aid.

 

Now he has the one power and is the Dragon.  Some nut is in his head and insanely rambling about his poor dead wife, constantly. 

 

Aes Sedai push him in one direction and pull him in another.  He has been betrayed by Aes Sedai and told what he should do constantly by those he keeps confidence with.

 

He doesn't trust his Ashamen because they are men who can channel and he has always been taught that men who can channel the OP are a serious threat to the world.  He sees himself in that same light.  If he doesn't trust himself then he surely cant trust anyone else. 

 

I'm sure that he has driven himself half mad by thinking about this stuff but I do not doubt his sanity 

 

If anything, I think Semi's statement is confirmation that he is sane.  She confirmed that the voice of LTT IS in his head.  How would she or anyone else know that unless it is true.

 

Look at Mat for an example.  He has memories of his past life and memories of others past lives but no voices. 

For whatever reason LTT was spun out into Rand as a trainer/aid.  Rand is the Dragon but LTT is there to guide him when necessary.  I just don't think anyone considered that Rands assigned teacher would be nutty as a fruitcake. 

 

Somewhere along the line in AMOL I think that LTT will snap to and become the resource he was intended to be.  I think something will happen that will focus LTT and bring him back.  Maybe the dead family was a set-up and he fell for it.  I don't know, but what I do believe is that he will have to be more of a benefit than he has been so far.

[bRANDan]

 

bRANDan:

 

I think you're having a little trouble separating reality from fantasy. ...

Don't let 'reality' get in the way of a good yarn.

 

Please people, read my posts carefully, I rarely ever use absolutes. This is all speculation. The word COULD is right there, third sentence. As in a possibility. Someone, I think Brooke, put forth that it could be this way. I confirmed this that yes, it COULD. And I do like a "good yarn" as you put it, though I never heard that saying before I do understand it.

 

Don't let "fantasy" get in the way of possibilities.  ;D

[wvlr]

Please people, read my posts carefully, I rarely ever use absolutes. This is all speculation. The word COULD is right there, third sentence. As in a possibility. Someone, I think Brooke, put forth that it could be this way. I confirmed this that yes, it COULD. And I do like a "good yarn" as you put it, though I never heard that saying before I do understand it.

 

Don't let "fantasy" get in the way of possibilities.  ;D

 

I think you have been quite clear as to supporting this as "A" possibility.  We have yet to see any conclusive evidence either way.

[Bob T Dwarf]

A very interesting point, xander.  Thanks for bringing it up.

 

The only real "evidence" we have that LTT was the one who killed his family is from Ishy's statement:

 

...What will you do with your name?  After this day, men will call you Kinslayer.  What will you do with that?"

 

To put it mildly, LTT was in an unsettled and suggestive state at the time.  It's possible that he didn't kill them after all.  Ishy's purpose in tracking down LTT was to humiliate, torment, and destroy him, so it's likely that everything he said and did was designed to wound.

 

... His sudden smile was cruel.  "But, I fear Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know.  Be healed, Lews Therin!"  He extended his hands, and the light dimmed as if a shadow had been laid across the sun.

 

What better way to torment your most hated enemy than to tell him a lie when he is in no state to refute it and then cast a Web upon him that makes him see the devastation and believe what you've told him.  Diabolically Ishy-like, indeed.

 

If LTT is to become a true and purposeful ally, it would take something like the exposure of a lie about Ilyena's death to do it.

 

As to your other points, I agree, in-the-main.

 

Semi could have been telling an accidental truth while seeking only to confuse and confound the enemy.  Her statement, on its own, whether true or false, serves both the personal and professional interests she seeks to further.

[wvlr]

Bob T Dwarf &  xander

 

Good points both and a very interesting side thought.    I don't know if anyone ever brought up that possibility before.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I rather doubt that it's an original idea.

 

In the eleventy-some years since "The Eye of the World" was published, I'm pretty sure that every dead horse has been dug up and soundly beaten multiple times.

 

Thanks for the thought, even so.

 

I also agree with your point.  Most in Randland are acting very irrationally, given that TG is on the horizon.

 

( To be perfectly honest, I think what we have here is a conflict between those who are mostly dain-bramaged ( the good guys ) and those who are terminally dain-bramaged ( the bad guys ).  Luckily, aMoL will get published and they'll all get to go to the zoo soon.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

"insanity" is being used very loosely here.  Jordan was guilty of that also.  If you listen to Isabel's tapes, you'll hear him say that he didn't consider Rand to be entirely "sane" anymore.

UNQUOTE

 

Seems like nitpicking to me. There are no gray areas between sanity and insanity. If somebody looses control of their actions as often as Rand does, regardless of how quickly he regains control over himself before doing something really fishbrained, it is still classed as insane. The Cleansing did nothing to remove any existing madness, only prevent it from getting worse. Aside from that, if any farmer was told that everyone in the whole world, EVERYONE, will die if he doesn't save them from the Devil-figure, they would go crackers eventually. If Rand was 99% sane and 1% insane (and Im fairly sure the insane bit is more than 1%) then I would still class that as insane, however mildly

[Luckers]

Well, if we're speaking technically, then there is no such state as insanity. Modern psychologists concern themselves more with stable and unstable mental states, and there is a massive range of grey area--indeed its more or less entirely grey area, since there is also no such a state as 'sane'.

 

Technically speaking Rand would not be considered 'mad'. He would be at worst a functional schitzophrenic--rational, aware of his condition, capable of functioning socially in spite of it.

[trakand_01]

And lets face it, how many of us can say that we're completely 'normal'? How do you define 'Sane'? It's virtually impossible.

 

If it came down to it I very much doubt that I would be medically 'sane', if a definition could be agreed upon; i spend my days and go to sleep at night thinking about people who only exist on paper, as though they are living, breathing humans (and ogiers).

 

;D

[Guest Dreadlord]

That, my friend Trakand 01, has nothing to do with insanity. That was the power of the late Robert Jordan, whose characters seem so real that they almost are.

 

Now on a more serious note, if you are so uncertain about your own sanity, just blame it on the Taint. Thats what I always do

[DanizzleMAX]

I always just figured LTT was just an answer having the dragon die, but not rand. Technically right now there are two dragons, right? I don't know how he got in Rand's head but he seems pretty helpful to me in his own completely mad way. 

[Guest Dreadlord]

No, there is only one Dragon. RJ said the Dragon is a soul that is spun out to become the Champion of the Light (he also said that it is possible for that same soul to be born without the Dragon status, so it can be born even if there are no massive battles to be fought, such an incarnation would just be a normal guy). The Dragons soul can only be spun out once at a time, the same as anyones soul. LTT was the Dragon but is dead, his soul was spun out again as Rand. So, only one incarnation of the Dragon is there-Rand-but he has the connection to the last time that soul became the Dragon. The reason for this connection, I reckon, is due to the Taint madness. Rand didn't have any thoughts/dreams/connections to Lews therin untill he began channelling.

[Luckers]

Indeed, LTT is only another facet personality... they are one soul, and one soul only.

[Brooke]

Then how do you explain Mat's connection to his past. No, not thep past memories he got when he visited the Finn's, but the past that allowed him to shout something in the old tongue without ever hearing it before, and the part of his past that allowed him to enter the ter'angreal doorway to the Finn's and not need a translator like Rand did?

 

Rand's past life was mad. Does that mean it will talk to him instead of just letting him have memories like Mat just had memories (yes I would say a almost forgotten language is a memory just like Rand knowing that Lanfear only loved power was a random memory).

[Luckers]

The memories of the old blood are not nessasarily memories of previous lives.

[The Lost One]

The memories of the old blood are not nessasarily memories of previous lives.

 

Really? I am confused - but that is not saying much.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Moiraine comments that the old blood runs strong in the Two Rivers. that did seem abit far fetched at first, with Mat remembering words he had never heard, but I think it worked out well later on. Didn't he scream a Band of the Red Hand warcry in EotW? That stacks well with him reforming the Band later on, as well as the memories coming later.

[trakand_01]

Yeah he did, I think that is the first time we see him speak the OT; they have been besieged by Trollocs and a Myrdraal outside SL and Mat shouts 'Tai'shar Manetheren!' or 'Carai al'Caldazar!', I forget which, and some other things as he's charging to fight them.

[Guest Dreadlord]

And before anyone says "Why hasn't Rand, Perrin, Nynaeve or Egwene started speaking the Old Tongue," they each have many other things that can be traced back to times of old. Rand is LTT reborn obviously, Perrin has become a Wolfbrother, and Egwene and nynaeve are extremelye powerful channellers (Nynaeve even more so than Egwene) and both have Talents that surprise every Aes Sedai who learn they are gifted with such abilities. Each have talents that are rare and almost lost in time, each have their own areas of excellence

[trakand_01]

Does Rand even have any Manetheren blood in him? I'm not sure on Tigraine's ancestry.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Tigraine was Andoran, was she not? From this and Gitara?s Fortelling that Andoran Royal Blood is the key to the Last Battle, I figured that that Foretelling was referring to Rand, not Elayne, seeing as Tigraine was of Royal Blood at that time.

[trakand_01]

Yes but simply being Andoran doesnt mean you have Manetheren's blood in you.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I didnt mean it like that dude, was just voicing an idle thought. Rand won't have any Manetheren blood in him at all I dont think, hes half Andoran, half Aiel. Did we ever get told where the borders of Manetheren were?

[trakand_01]

I think so, when Moiraine was telling them the history of Manetheren and the queen/king etc. I can't remember it though!

[Snowy Dawn]

``From this and Gitara's Foretelling that Andoran Royal Blood is the key to the Last Battle.''

 

Actually, Elaida's foretelling, IIRC, made while she was not yet Aes Sedai. This foretelling came before Mantear gave way to Trakand when Morgase became Queen. But Elaida does not see that her foretelling might refer to Mantear, otherwise she would not have been so quick to become the Tower's adviser to Morgase. No doubt, the disappearance of Tigraine and the death of Queen Mordrellin led Elaida to assume that her foretelling referred to Trakand rather than Mantear. Yet another case in which RJ's characters are in the dark whilst the reader is permitted to see more. :-) [but how much more?]