A'dam for training

[Guest leebarr]

Could the WT use the A'dam to train novices. It could be useful and speed up training. It also may help with a truce with Seachan. What do ya'll think?

[zzyzx_scarecrow]

Hmm.  Considering the three oaths, it couldn't be used as a weapon, making it a little less threatening.  Unless your teacher is Black Ajah.

[Majsju]

Sounds a bit like claiming that slavery is a good way to train workers...

 

Thing is, if you want to learn something potentially dangerous, you have to expose yourself to the dangers.

Using an a'dam would make the novices nothing more than tools.

[42Bonzo88]

    I agree with Majsju, very few people would put themselves under another person's total control even if it would help speed things up. I think they need to go through the difficult training to prepare them for the dangers they will be facing when they go out into the world.

[algspkr]

The only thing I can think of that it may be useful for is tearing down blocks in wilders.  Beyond that I believe that it is a completely unaccpetable method of training, and I doubt it would work too well in that application either.

[aevogt]

There is always the question of the Black Ajah.  Should they be collared?

 

Just binding them with the OR would only work as long as they never entered TAR or until they were unbound by another BA sister.

 

The Adam is suitable punishment for their crimes against the light.

 

 

[Saidar]

There is always the question of the Black Ajah.  Should they be collared?

 

Just binding them with the OR would only work as long as they never entered TAR or until they were unbound by another BA sister.

 

The Adam is suitable punishment for their crimes against the light.

 

 

 

Death is a suitable punishment for the women of the Black Ajah.

 

What I really want to see is the downfall of the Seanchan empire.

[Luckers]

Maj is right. But that being said we know from Asmodean that more conventional links can be very effective in training anyway. You needn't have a ter'angreal forcing the link to gain the benefits.

 

Why would it nessasarily speed up training? Egwene was forced, and that carries dangers whether or not your leashed. Damane can be burned out just like anyone else.

[algspkr]

Maj is right. But that being said we know from Asmodean that more conventional links can be very effective in training anyway. You needn't have a ter'angreal forcing the link to gain the benefits.

 

Why would it nessasarily speed up training? Egwene was forced, and that carries dangers whether or not your leashed. Damane can be burned out just like anyone else.

I think you are wrong here Luckers.  It has been pointed out repeatedly that a person who is a source in linking cannot draw more power than they can handle when linked.

[Luckers]

Yet RJ specifically stated at DragonCon 2005 that when damane burned themselves out the a'dam stopped working on them, showing that they can indeed burn themselves out.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

correct me if i'm wrong...but in a traditional circle, the weaves come from the one controlling the circle.  however, in a a'dam circle, the suldam is definitely in control(she is able to control how much the damane channels), yet all the weaving is done by the damane.  doesn't this show that a normal circle and the a'dam circle are critically different(allowing for the possibility that the 'burning-out' safeguard, among other things, doesn't exist in the latter)?  of course...this is based on my memory being correct in the first place

[Luckers]

Perhaps. Certainly a damane can weave seperate of the sul'dam, though only ever with her permission, but the sul'dam can also directly control the weaves herself. Either way thats different from a normal circle in which only the one heading the circle can actively weave... plus the controller contributes none of her own strength to the link even if she is an active channeler.

[42Bonzo88]

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people in the circle willingly give the power to the one who holds the circle. Not like in the Suldame, Damane's case. Interesting to know that Damane can burn themselves out. I didn't remember that part. If that's the case can a Suldam force a damane to draw too much power, or can she stop it in time?

 

[The Lost One]

I think the A'dam would be a good teaching tool.  It would help novices learn the power more quickly.  And how much different would it be for them?  As it is, they are supposed to obey AND trust Aes Sedai no matter what.  With our without the A'dam an Aes Sedai could do what ever they wanted to do with a novice, but the A'dam would force them to use the power and gain strength and knowledge much more quickly. 

 

 

[Luckers]

But why... the a'dam involves a great lot of fumbling between controller and controllee. The sul'dam guides the flows or commands the flows, there is no especial benefit there. Why do you think it would mean they would aquire strength and knowledge more quickly--Egwene aquired it because she was forced. Aes Sedai could do that whenever they wanted, a'dam or no, but don't because of the risk--which would still apply, a'dam or no.

[The Lost One]

I think it would help the novices see/create/maintain (whatever) the source and the flows.  I think it would make their training faster...like someone was actually guiding them in their weaves (physically), rather than just talking them through.  And with a person that is familar with using the A'dam as a sul'dam does, I don't think there would be a lot of fumbling.  It would be more suped up training. 

 

I am not saying to use the A'dam all the time - but I think using it for the first few weeks(or more)of novice training would make a big difference. 

[cloglord]

I think that the oath rod would be a better tool for training, in that you could directly limit what the students could do and not do, and thus provide safeguards against accidental burnout or death.  It would also be useful in forcing blocks out.

 

I wondered about the suldame/damane in seanchan during Rand & Avhienda's redezvous.  When Rand touched the collor it says that the power surged into both women, does that mean that that Suldame, having channeled once, would be compelled to channel again like a sparker?  Could this be the use that the adam could be used for, forcing suldame to channel for their first time, and then leaving them to figure it out on their own?

[BrainFireBob]

Cloglord, there's two problems with that.

 

1) Forbidding them from drawing too much of the One Power may be interepreted and so they wouldn't push themselves, and they would not learn self-control they would need if the Oath was ever lifted. Remember, it's always a battle of wills not to draw more than you can.

 

2) How would it force blocks out? You can be unable to comply with an oath- we see that with the BA hunters, who commanded a Rebel ferret to tell a lie, and it nearly killed her.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yup, what Maj said.