Verin Mathwin

[Luckers]

We actually can predict Verin's age. Merana states that Verin spent five years as a novice, and five years as a Accepted and that Verin is as much older than Merana as Merana is than Alanna, and that Meranna had worn the shawl for ten years the day Alanna was born.

 

Its convuluted, but its all there. Alanna was an Accepted in New Spring, twenty years ago, so at the lowest she would be 24 then and at the highest she would be 30. From there we can get Merana, who if she spent ten years gaining the shawl would be somewhere between 26 and 34 when she became Aes Sedai, and add ten plus Alanna's life, then 20 years to bring us to present, and we know that Merana is roughly between being 80 and 94 at the time she spoke that comment.

 

From there we can deduce Verin, who is as much older than Merana than Merana was Alanna. If this is the case then Verin is between 116 and 138.

[aussie_ashaman123]

grrrr luckers, now your turning WoT into a mathematic problem solving book?

 

They already have a toy-boy loving aes sedai, toevine gazal (a red, no less), not to mention how a most of the green Ajah went gaga over galad (i know, he wasnt exactly a fuzzy cheeked, wide-eyed boy, but hes so bloody pretty he might look not much over 14 or 15), or Narishma, or even Rand, they all got perved on, and not just by the greens (maybe elaida was interesting in rand coz she likes tall, red haired young men, hmmm? ;))

 

I suppose all aes sedai who enjoy men like younger boys, after all, soonre or later, everyone is gonna be younger than them. (poor nynaeve with her older man fixation, shell need to hook up with an ogier :P)

[Shaidar_Rannow]

Any Aes Sedai who hits on a man is kinda pervy. most Aes Sedai are generally older than most others, so any flirting that goes on makes all them ladies, at the very least, cradlerobbers! Funny since they all seem ageless.

[Luckers]

Verin prefers to think that it is THEY that are robbing the grave.

[aevogt]

Such charm! Well unfortunately your wrong but I thank ye for sparing my feelings. lol So let me see if I am up to proper speed, didnt Verin leave the Rand camp to retrieve the Horn? If so how in the Creators name is she gonna get it from Elaida. She knows how to travel and so she knows the amount of power it uses, so I think thats out. Any thoughts?

 

We know of only two women with certain knowledge of the whereabouts of the Horn.  Suian Sanche and Verin Mathwin.  It's possible that Suian let it slip when she was being put to the question, but she thinks about the things she held back so that is liely one of them, likely because none of her questioners knew to ask her about it. Elaida hasn't the first clue where the Horn is hidden.  Otherwise, Elaida would be blowing the crap out of it during her daily treasure bath.  Now there's a mental picture it'll take a healthy dose of John Jameson and Sons finest to eliminate.

 

Egwene describes the route to Verin's quarters as one not frequently traveled to say the least.  The Horn could have been an owl perch or hanging off a trolloc skull for the last 7 books and no one would have been the least bit wiser. 

 

Knowing this, coupled with the fact that Verin has likely been poking around deserted rooms in the Tower for 100 years or so, I'd be surprised if she didn't have the Horn clutched tightly in her bird-like little claws before Rand even read her letter. 

 

[Shaidar_Rannow]

If she had it already then, why would she not give it to Rand? Rand used weaves on Callandor that even the forsaken stayed away from, he could do the same for the horn. She must be going to retrieve it. But regardless of where in the tower it is how can she get in unnoticed? Surely the people of the tower who see a rebel Aes Sedai in their midst. The ferrets were different they went over for info. I dunno, I am now leaning towards her collecting it during the Seanchan attack.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Surely the people of the tower who see a rebel Aes Sedai in their midst. The ferrets were different they went over for info. I dunno, I am now leaning towards her collecting it during the Seanchan attack.

 

She hasn't had much to do with either camp, has she? I was under the impression that she hadn't really allied with Eg's lot at this stage.

 

I agree though, she'll pop in during the Seanchan attack and get up to a variety of Verinny type things, none of which we'll see coming.

[trakand_01]

I am fascinated by Verin. There are so many possibilities.

[Emily_Sedai]

 

I really don't trust Verin very much...  she's definitely too much of a wild card, especially considering her killing of other Sisters, no matter how slowly and for what reasons.  Most people point to the scene with Cadsuane as proof that she's on the Light's side, however I don't believe that really proves anything.  Even Moridin aids Rand at one point, and the Shadow definitely seems invested in keeping Rand alive.  I'm hoping that we see more of her story in AMoL next year, it'll be interesting :) 

[aevogt]

If she had it already then, why would she not give it to Rand? Rand used weaves on Callandor that even the forsaken stayed away from, he could do the same for the horn. She must be going to retrieve it. But regardless of where in the tower it is how can she get in unnoticed? Surely the people of the tower who see a rebel Aes Sedai in their midst. The ferrets were different they went over for info. I dunno, I am now leaning towards her collecting it during the Seanchan attack.

 

Verin Travels directly to her rooms in the Tower, the most likely hiding place for the Horn. 

 

No one see her arrive. 

 

She channels to remove it from under the massive pile of dusty manuscripts beneath which she cleverly placed it 7 books ago. 

 

No one sees her leave.

 

Leaving Tar Valon, she starts looking for Mat, since, to Rand, the Horn is just so much twisty brass.  He won't be too hard to find now that he's back in command of the Band.

 

 

 

 

 

[drsarav]

Back to Verin's age for one sec...

in the Great Hunt, in the stedding, Rand is about to use the Portal Stone to transport the gang to Toman Head. He's unsure which symbol to focus on; Verin urges him to choose and tells him, "as my father would have said, it's time to roll the dice".   

Now, that slogan becomes the rallying cry for the Band of the Red Hand after Mat, who is now carrying the memories of other long-dead generals in his brain, uses it before a  battle. 

 

Could Verin's father be one of those long-dead generals in Mat's head?  If so she is LOTS older than 123.   

 

Just a thought.

[aussie_ashaman123]

mat isnt gonna be with the band much longer, hes off with thom and noal to the ghenjei tower. more likely itll be illian, where it will be blown to summon forth the heros for TG.

[trakand_01]

Have we ever seen a POV from either Verin or another Aes Sedai (preferably an older one) remembering Verin as a Novice, or an Accepted, or better still of her taking the Shawl?

[aevogt]

Merana's POV in LoC refers to Verin but only with oblique references, with a lot of "mays" and "mights"

 

Personally, I believe Verin's reference to her 70 year project is nothing more than a reference to her entier time outside the Tower as an Aes Sedai, which would amount to

 

Went to the tower at 18

 

Novice 5 years  (average)

 

Accepted 6years (average)

 

10 years as a newly raised sister press-ganged for duty in the Tower Library by the head of the Brown Ajah (until she gained enough strength to escape) where coincidentally, she found all her secret papers, including the one that led her to tie her career to the Horn and the Dragon, who's identity she just so happened to guess right on the first try.

 

plus she says more than 70 years of careful planning.

 

Which would put her at no less than 108+ years old. So 123 is not out of the question and would make Merana's calculations pretty close.

 

 

 

[Luckers]

Merana says that she had been an Aes Sedai ten years the day Alanna was born. Alanna is roughly 46, so Merana has been an Aes Sedai for 50 years. Merana spent 5 years as a novice, and 6 as an accepted, and if she was accepted late into the novitiate she might have been as old as 20. So, Merana is somewhere aroung 81 years of age.

 

Verin is supposed to be as much older than Merana as Merana is older than Alanna. So Alanna is 40 and Merana is 81 than Verin is around 41 years older than Merana, and around 127 years of age. Theres a gap for varience in the fact that we don't know exactly how old either Merana, Alana or Verin were when they went to the Tower, nor how long Alanna was one of the Accepted. So Verin could in truth be anywhere between 115 and 127.

[trakand_01]

What i'm getting at though, is do we know that Verin is a 'proper' Aes Sedai? Do we know for certain that she took the oaths, went through the arches? Surely a time must come where no Aes Sedai are living to say whether you did or you didnt? A time must come when everyone just knows that 'Verin Mathwin' is Aes Sedai, and that she was Aes Sedai before they even came to the tower.

 

The only two things to prove that she has taken oath on the oath rod are that she has the ageless look and she thinks how to get around the WO's orders not to tell Rand something.

 

But do we know she took the SAME oaths as everyone else?

[Luckers]

Firstly, whilst they don't speak of it Aes Sedai are very aware of the relative ages of other Aes Sedai--it influences their hierarchy. Verin's age is known, and commented on, and more importantly so is her period in the novitiate.

 

Which means that people are aware of her training period, which means that people are aware of her being raised to Aes Sedai as a specific reality. Which means she must have taken the same oaths as everyone else, and have been raised like everyone else. So yes, we do know that she went through the arches, took the oaths, etc.

 

Its possible that she has since altered the oaths--in point of fact we even know that she specifically has been in TAR and could therefore have dreamt up a rod and changed them without anyone knowing.

 

But... and its a big but... why would she alter her oaths, yet let them relatively the same. She is forced to dance around truth with Beldeine, which means she is still bound against lying--which incidently is the only oath its suggested she is not bound by. Why would she leave herself bound at all if she were going to do that--none at that stage knew the oaths caused the Agelessness, she had no reason to leave herself bound at all.

 

In total... im not sure. I don't really see her altering her oaths, but its possible.

 

Surely a time must come where no Aes Sedai are living to say whether you did or you didnt? A time must come when everyone just knows that 'Verin Mathwin' is Aes Sedai, and that she was Aes Sedai before they even came to the tower.

 

Except she wasn't. There are several hundred Aes Sedai that are older than Verin's reputed age.

[trakand_01]

Firstly, whilst they don't speak of it Aes Sedai are very aware of the relative ages of other Aes Sedai--it influences their hierarchy. Verin's age is known, and commented on, and more importantly so is her period in the novitiate.

 

Which means that people are aware of her training period, which means that people are aware of her being raised to Aes Sedai as a specific reality. Which means she must have taken the same oaths as everyone else, and have been raised like everyone else. So yes, we do know that she went through the arches, took the oaths, etc.

 

Its possible that she has since altered the oaths--in point of fact we even know that she specifically has been in TAR and could therefore have dreamt up a rod and changed them without anyone knowing.

 

But... and its a big but... why would she alter her oaths, yet let them relatively the same. She is forced to dance around truth with Beldeine, which means she is still bound against lying--which incidently is the only oath its suggested she is not bound by. Why would she leave herself bound at all if she were going to do that--none at that stage knew the oaths caused the Agelessness, she had no reason to leave herself bound at all.

 

In total... im not sure. I don't really see her altering her oaths, but its possible.

 

Surely a time must come where no Aes Sedai are living to say whether you did or you didnt? A time must come when everyone just knows that 'Verin Mathwin' is Aes Sedai, and that she was Aes Sedai before they even came to the tower.

 

Except she wasn't. There are several hundred Aes Sedai that are older than Verin's reputed age.

 

"Yes, we know she is a true Aes Sedai" is the answer then. That's all i needed  ;D

[DemandredFO]

There are so many Verin threads that I picked one.

K, it seems to me that Verin understands the complete Prophecies of the Dragon and no one else does.  We have seen that Suian and Moiraine dedicated their lives to finding Rand yet they don't understand most of the prophecies, why does Verin?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Possibly because she's a Brown and they aren't.

 

By her own admission she's now some 70 years into her own personal pet project.  While Siuan and Moiraine were busy doing, Verin was busy studying and puzzling and inferring and deducing.  She had the luxury of time to study and research, they didn't.

[RAND AL THOR]

When a thread has 5+ pages of replies I have become accustomed to clicking on the last page because what is being discussed there is not what is being discussed on the first page. ;D

 

Verin is both weird and nice. I have not yet seen her do anything that maybe harmful to Rand and I cannot believe that she is BA. Does anyone have any clue about what her 70-year project is? I hope its something dramatic because she spent SEVENTY YEARS on it!

[Bob T Dwarf]

One thing about Verin that also puzzles me -

 

What did she do to make "Verin Mathwin" persona non grata in Far Madding all those years ago?  Musta been pretty spectacular if she's still covering who she is all these years later.

[ThebigeyeAm]

now i no this will cause some trouble but i thi nk she can channel in areas she shouldnt b able to maybe through a well if she has one or some other way.remember that she did something in that steadding i think she delved that fella, i cant remember the exact details.perhaps this was the reason why she was exiled from far madding!

    also someone asked if she did bend her oaths somehow why not just break them all? well that would remove her ageless look and verin doesn't strike me as the kind to want to stand out!questions would be asked...no?

 

    i dont want abbuse from any haters im not trying to change anyones views im just saying this is how id like things to be this way

[Spirit1025]

Its possible that she has since altered the oaths--in point of fact we even know that she specifically has been in TAR and could therefore have dreamt up a rod and changed them without anyone knowing.

 

Do we have any evidence you can do something like that in Tel'Aran'Rhiod? It doesn't seem like something that would be possible. Otherwise, why wouldn't Egwene have thought of something like that and taken her Oaths that way?

 

Also, has anyone else made the connection between the name Verin and the Latin 'veritas' (truth)? Anyone think anything of that?

[D24g0n]

So far, there has only been one piece of evidence that ter'angreal can be created and used in T'A'R.  When Nyneave captures Moghedien in TAR Salidar by thinking up the a'dam around Moghedien's neck.  Egwene would have no reason to even believe that possible, nobody knows everything about T'A'R.  It is also possible that Verin would know about it from her notes.

 

I think the last time the horn was actually seen in the books was by Padan Fain.  While he was in the tower storage room, I believe he mentions seeing the Horn, but not having time to get it because he needed to get the dagger.  He doesn't get another chance to see if it is really the Horn because a novice and then Alviarin find him.  This all happens after Verin has left the tower, and as far as we know, she has never been back because KoD.